Questions and comments from a novice.

[Jerry O'Brien]

My name is Jerry O'Brien. I live in Houston,Texas. I am basically in the electrical business. I also do some engraving and special projects for local contractors and some of the building owners and managers.

I am beginning to search for a CO2 engraving laser. I am generally confused about what is out there. It seems that there are a number of conflicting comments about what is good and what is not so good.

I have found one resource that I think is very good though. It seems to be very good for a brand new person like me. It is called Laser University. (www.laseru.com (http://www.laseru.com)). I believe it is made by the people at laserbits. It is a subscription program on the internet. At first it seemed very elementary. Once I got into it I truly realized how little I knew. I actually came to the conclusion that I did not know how to ask a good question. The program seems to be a very good place to start. I should also mention that I have no business relationship with this program. I have no family working there. I am presently very happy with what they are teaching me.

Back to the confusing parts, I talked to a fellow the other day and he told me not to purchase a laser from anyone that might be using a Synrad tube. He said: "They will no longer support any tube under 50 Watts."
I called Synrad and the technician there seemed very well versed in his craft. He gave me a very good explanation about not support items that were over ten years old, especially units that once operated on alternating current (AC).

My question to this group is :
What is new on the laser horizon?
Is auto focus mandatory?
How do you focus with auto focus?
What is better: Stepper motors or synchros?
Where can you find out how much power is needed?
What are the warrantees? Are they worth anything.
Do you need a vector cutting honeycomb table?

What should you ask for when you go to a distributor and get a demonstration?
Should yo take your own materials to somewhat keep the playing field as level as possible?

You get my drift. I am a novice and I am looking for some information. I have read many of the posts on this site and I have learned a lot.

What are the best sites to gather information from.

Thank you very much for your assistance. I do look forward to hearing from any and all of you out there.

Jerry O'Brien

[Dave Jones]

Before you decide on a machine it's best to nail down a clear idea of what materials you plan to work with, and whether mostly raster engraving or vector cutting will be the primary use. Also, what is the largest piece you might have to work on.

Also, are you looking for a machine to use occasionally or for full production, constant use all day?

[Nancy Laird]

My name is Jerry O'Brien. I live in Houston,Texas. I am basically in the electrical business. I also do some engraving and special projects for local contractors and some of the building owners and managers.

I am beginning to search for a CO2 engraving laser. I am generally confused about what is out there. It seems that there are a number of conflicting comments about what is good and what is not so good.

I have found one resource that I think is very good though. It seems to be very good for a brand new person like me. It is called Laser University. laseru.com".laseru.com. I believe it is made by the people at laserbits. It is a subscription program on the internet. At first it seemed very elementary. Once I got into it I truly realized how little I knew. I actually came to the conclusion that I did not know how to ask a good question. The program seems to be a very good place to start. I should also mention that I have no business relationship with this program. I have no family working there. I am presently very happy with what they are teaching me. Jerry, we've been doing this for a little over two years, and we got into it stone cold--no Corel knowledge, no graphics experience, nothing!!! I know your feelings and feel your pain, but it does get easier. There is a place in Texas where you can go for a one-week hands-on training session--I'm not sure where or how to find them, but the man we bought our second laser from did a full year's full of research on lasers, and attended that training session, before he bought the ULS 40W.

Back to the confusing parts, I talked to a fellow the other day and he told me not to purchase a laser from anyone that might be using a Synrad tube. He said: "They will no longer support any tube under 50 Watts."
I called Synrad and the technician there seemed very well versed in his craft. He gave me a very good explanation about not support items that were over ten years old, especially units that once operated on alternating current (AC). You want to make sure you get an air-cooled CO2 tube--not a water-cooled one. The Chinese lasers coming into the States do not have this type of tube, as I understand it. I may be wrong, and if so, I'll stand corrected.

My question to this group is :
What is new on the laser horizon? Only the laser manufacturers can answer that question. There are a lot of Chinese lasers coming into the States that may prove to be decent, and may prove to be lemons. There's no history on them, so be warned if you want to be a guinea pig.

Is auto focus mandatory? NO!! Auto focus is nice to have, but when you want to make sure your focus is spot-on, it's actually easier and IMHO more accurate if you do the focus yourself.

How do you focus with auto focus? Don't know; both of my machines are manual focus.

What is better: Stepper motors or synchros? There's a BIG debate on this question. Our ULS machines have stepper motors; one machine is 11 years old (we bought it used ), the other is 2 years old. We've had no problem with either of them. There is a contingent that swears by servo motors; I don't really know the difference, I just know that ours work!

Where can you find out how much power is needed? The "power needed" depends on what you want to do. Our little 20W machine will cut 1/4" solid alder and 1/4" Baltic birch plywood; our 40W machine will cut 1/4" acrylic in one pass. If you are wanting to cut anything thicker than that, you might want more power. You have to determine what you want to do with the machine and see what powers you need. Generally speaking, anything in the 35 - 50W range will do whatever you need it to do, without getting into heavily industrial work.

What are the warrantees? Are they worth anything. During the warranty period, the manufacturers will repair just about anything that goes wrong--bad electronics, bad mechanical, bad tube. But after that warranty period runs out, you are on your own!!! And you'd better have some money in the bank.

Do you need a vector cutting honeycomb table? Not necessarily. We didn't have a cutting table for over a year--we made do by stapling hardware cloth to pieces of plywood to elevate the material to be cut off of the table, and masked the backs of the material to keep the burn and flare to a minimum. When we bought the second laser, it came with a cutting table, and we've decided that we don't know how we did without it--to the point where we bought a second one!! If you are going to be doing a lot of cutting, particularly of lightweight materials such as paper, 1/32" birch ply, or veneer, a cutting table is almost a necessity, as it has downdraft exhaust through the table which pulls the material down onto the table and doesn't allow the exhaust to pull the pieces out through the blower.

What should you ask for when you go to a distributor and get a demonstration? If you have a graphics file that you would like to try out, and some material that you want to use, take that file on a disk and the same material every time to the distributor, and have them load and run that file on their machines. You can see the machine in action, the result of the raster and vector, and see which one will meet your needs.

The next thing you need to find out is about their technical service -- after the sale. The sales reps will tell you almost anything to put their machine in your shop; it's the service that tells the real story, since the sales reps will disappear as soon as your check clears. Is there good telephone assistance if something goes wrong? Is there a service tech near you? Are you mechanically inclined enough so that if something on your machine breaks, you can install the parts they will so kindly send you?

Should yo take your own materials to somewhat keep the playing field as level as possible? Absolutely. See above.

You get my drift. I am a novice and I am looking for some information. I have read many of the posts on this site and I have learned a lot.

What are the best sites to gather information from. There are two VERY active engraving sites - Engraving Etc. and World of Engraving - where you can read until your eyes fall out and get lots of good information; of course there's a lot of good information here. As you are reading, take note of the manufacturers of the machines and a list of the gripes, complaints, breakdowns, problems that owners have had with them. Also, take note of which machines you see advertised for sale--whether the machines are lemons, whether the owner is upgrading, whether the owner is just tired of the business and getting out--that's something to ask. Most laser owners will be honest and upfront with you and give you honest answers to your questions.

Thank you very much for your assistance. I do look forward to hearing from any and all of you out there.

Jerry O'Brien

More questions? Either post them here on PM me--hubby and I will be glad to help out.

Warning: there is more to getting into this business than just buying the laser. The most-prevalent graphics program is Corel--get the X3 version. There is a very steep learning curve to Corel, unless you're already well-versed in computer-graphics work. You'll need an exhaust blower and the materials to exhaust the laser, as you WILL NOT want to try to run it otherwise. The laser will put out a lot of smoke and odor that you will need to exhaust outside. You'll need a small compressor for the air assist if you want to do acrylic work. If you're going to try doing glass, you'll probably want/need a sandblaster, again with a small compressor. You'll need materials: wood of all sorts, acrylic, marble, granite, glass, plaque blanks for plaques, the list goes on and on and on. People on the Turning Forum call the purchase of a lathe the first headlong dive into the abyss; the same abyss exists for lasering. It isn't cheap to get into this, but it sure is fun!!!

Nancy

[Mike Null]

Most of what you want to know you'll find by doing a search on this forum and the other forums. And then a few hours of reading.

I disagree with Nancy's terminology on the warranty issue. Manufacturer's will repair nothing. What they do is replace parts in the warranty period. It is a rare occasion when the mfr will do any repair.

[Joe Pelonio]

I'll explain the autofocus, on my machine. When on, and you start the job, the table drops down a bit, then comes up until the autofocus plunger on the laser head tops out, in my case 2". It's very reliable as long as you keep the tip clean. Still, more often than not I use manual focus, because most jobs involve many sheets of material and it wastes time to have it auto focus each time you start it.

Warranties are an important consideration because a replacement tube can cost $2000-$3000 or more. I'd suggest getting the replacement tube price and extended warranty price before buying.

There are a few dealers that do repairs, but I agree that typically the parts are shipped along with instructions and you must install them yourself, with support via phone and e-mail as needed.

[Jerry O'Brien]

I just returned from church. I had to see what or if anyone replied. Thank you all very much. Your comments are truly appreciated.

I will tell you a little about why I got into this arena. I do some work for a couple of very very large contractors. The stuff that I do is generally pretty small and it is easy for me to do it. It is pretty small by their standards, but not by mine. It is also very profitable. It seems to solve a problem for them and it also allows me to keep my boat afloat.

I am currently cutting 1/4" and 1/8" acrylic into specific sizes. I used to do it with a table saw and I was then I was asked to get the precision a little tighter. I found that a laser would do the job. We have farmed it out now for over two years. My problem is that the timing I need is not what some of these laser guys need. I was and am willing to give a three week notice to cut out about 400 pieces of plastic , mostly the same size and always the same thickness. It was starting to take 4-5 weeks and now as much as 5-6 weeks. I changed vendors and it is pretty much the same story . I never squabbled about the prices I was charged, although I did ask for a quote before the work began. We did the software work and that seemed to be that.

I was also trying and I am still trying to figure what else to do with the machine if we do purchase one. I also find it very interesting, almost exciting. It is kind of like writing these few words. This is somewhat like Forrest Gump talking about a box of chocolate.

Thank you all again.

There was one quest that I wrote improperly and maybe you folks could look at it again.

If you do not have auto-focus, how hard is it to manually focus the machine?

Sincerely,

Jerry O'Brien

[John Esberg]

Its true, most of your questions can be asked by enough research by digging into the forums.

Vector cutting grids are a must in my opinion. In my opinion, go with Mike's at www.stl-laser.com. You'll love the price just as much as I did. If you search through this forum, you can see the results I had from using his piece.

The warranty issue is a problem that comes up over and over. Here's what' I'd ask each company too. 1.) Let me see it in writing. 2.) How much is it go get a recharge on my tube?

When you go to get a demonstration, bring you own samples AND graphics. But also remember that sometimes the skill/interest of the operator will play a large part in the quality of the results. I once did a demonstration for a wonderful couple on my ULS M-300. They brought in multiple pieces of marble with thier wedding photo. I didn't have experience on how to do photos on marble. I spent 3 hours getting it down for them. The quaility of the results had nothing to do with the machine. By the end I had proven to them that the problem was that I didn't know how to prepare the photo in the software and I also had to figure out the settings on the laser.

Till later,

DAK

[Rodne Gold]

For some ideas of what you could do , try this
http://engravingetc.org/archive/messages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1617.1

[Barry Basiliere]

Jerry,

While my machine has auto focus I usually use the manual focus to avoid having the laser re-focus between runs of the same job.

I is VERY easy to manually focus my laser. I am sure that most work the same way. A focus gauge is provided, the gauge is set on the machine and the table is raised and lowered to set the focus. I am not sure how other mfg machines work but mine is a snap.

It looks like you are running through the same steps I took a little over a year and a half ago. It also seems as though you have asked all the right questions. The answers others have posted are "Spot On".

Barry

[Larry Bratton]

Jerry:
Before I purchased my laser, I was pretty uninformed about lasers per se. I too found Laser U and I used it. I paid my money and read all I could on there. I had, by that time committed to a large investment for this machine, so it was a "have to" situation to learn all I could from where ever. I also found this forum and two more, http://engravingetc.org/ and http://www.worldofengraving.com/forum/

If you read the information posted on these forums, you will have some good basic knowledge prior to purchasing. I don't know how well versed you are in the use of Corel Draw, but it is the industry standard for "printing" to a laser. If you don't have pretty strong graphics skills, then the creation of useful output will be more difficult for you. The actual operation of the machine is similar to printing to a laser printer etc., with some variations of course.

Good luck with your purchase.

[Jerry O'Brien]

That is amazing. What a huge bunch of information. Thank you very much. I will have to have to read over this a couple of times.

[Nancy Laird]

I was and am willing to give a three week notice to cut out about 400 pieces of plastic , mostly the same size and always the same thickness. It was starting to take 4-5 weeks and now as much as 5-6 weeks.

I was also trying and I am still trying to figure what else to do with the machine if we do purchase one. I also find it very interesting, almost exciting. It is kind of like writing these few words. This is somewhat like Forrest Gump talking about a box of chocolate.



Jerry, I'm astonished that any laserer would take 4 of 5 or 6 weeks to do a cutting job on acrylic, unless they are having a problem getting material. It sounds as if they are delaying your job and putting it on the bottom of the stack because it isn't a job they want to do. Cutting the acrylic is so simple--just load the graphic onto the computer, set up the laser for the job, and press the print button. Somebody's been yanking your chain.

What else to do with your laser? The possibilities are endless. Here are some of the things we've done with ours:

name tags from 1/8" birch ply
wood plaques
bookmarks and business cards from 1/32" Finland birch ply
stick-on-veneer logos
personalizing wooden pens and pen boxes
engrave (and sandblast) glass coffee cups, toasting glasses, other glassware
engrave designs on picture-frame glass (looks classy with a colored mat behind)
cut the parts for acrylic clocks (designs converted from scroll-saw patterns)
desk name plates from maple
two-sided luggage tags
key tags
laser customer's designs onto pre-made wood pieces (fun when the pieces aren't all the same size and some won't fit into the jig!!)
cut sets of letters from 1/8" birch ply for making signs (letters are painted by the customer)
signs for ourselves and others
marble and granite - text and pictures
pet tags
etc. etc. etc.The possibilities are endless and are limited only by your own imagination and the imagination of others. I can send you pictures of some of our stuff if you're interested.

Warning: this can become addictive!!

Nancy

[Larry Bratton]

Nancy:
Don't forget leather. Fantastic to engrave (smells kinda bad,, but it reminds me of the smell of money)

[Jerry O'Brien]

Thank you again to all of you.

Nancy. I have asked myself the same question many times. I don't think it was a lack of materials problem. We were suppling the materials. I hope it was not a money problem . As I said, I never questioned pricing. we always took them a check with the materials even thought we have excellent credit. I think it may have been too small a job. By the way the pricing we were quoted was between $1.00 to $1.5 to do the cutting.

Nancy again-- I would very much like to see the pictures you offered. I must also ask one more question. I had one person send me a private message and shared some very good information with me. How do you send a private message to someone?

Jerry

[Nancy Laird]

Jerry, just click on that person's name - in a post or on the member's list, and you'll get a menu. One of the choices will be "send a private message." Click on that and you're good to go. I'm sending you a PM.

Nancy

[Nancy Laird]

Nancy:
Don't forget leather. Fantastic to engrave (smells kinda bad,, but it reminds me of the smell of money)

We haven't tried any leather, Larry, but if I could get some, I'd probably try it, just for funsies. I could make some key tags out of it, couldn't I?

Nancy

[Nancy Laird]

Nancy. I have asked myself the same question many times. I don't think it was a lack of materials problem. We were suppling the materials. I hope it was not a money problem . As I said, I never questioned pricing. we always took them a check with the materials even thought we have excellent credit. I think it may have been too small a job. By the way the pricing we were quoted was between $1.00 to $1.5 to do the cutting.

$1.00 to $1.50 PER PIECE for cutting parts????? Wow!!!! That's a huge chunk. I'm astounded!! Were these very intricate parts with lots of cutouts, or just things like squares or rectangles, etc.??


Nancy

[Jerry O'Brien]

I had not read this when I replied to your private reply.

I am still learning. Thank you again

Jerry O'Brien

[John Esberg]

Jerry,

OK, now I'm curious too.

What are the exact details on these pieces? What are the dimensions?

DAK