Tablesaw noise levels

[Tom Henderson2]

Greetings everyone. I'm a newcommer to SMC but have learned a tremendous amount while I've been lurking. I'd like to query the group about saw noise levels.

The short question is... How much difference in noise levels am I likely to experience between a 10" RAS, a 3HP unisaw and a 5HP unisaw?

I'm returning to woodworking as a hobby after a 20+ year hiatus. At the moment my only saw is a 1980-vintage Craftsman RAS

I'm contemplating replacing it with a good cabinet saw, and have a line on a good used 5HP unisaw.

Do any of you have any idea if the Unisaw will be much louder than the RAS? On the one hand, it has a more powerful motor, and my sense is that it turns the blade faster than the RAS, so that might make more noise.

On the other hand, the motor and most of the blade are inside the cabinet and I was hoping that might reduce the noise that makes it out of the shop and into the neighbors window.

I know this is kind of a long, rambling question but I wanted to give enough background that it made some sense.

Thanks in advance!

-Tom Henderson
Ventura, CA

[Loren Hedahl]

Each of those have induction type motors, which are fairly quiet, and would likely contribute less in total noise than that generated by the blade.

If you would like a number, Radio Shack carries a couple of inexpensive decibel meters that will measure noise energy. With the same blade on each saw you could get a meaningful numerical comparison.

My guess is that any differences would hardly be worth writing home about.

Comparing one of these saws to one that has a universal ac-dc motor installed, such as most bench saws, would be a far different story.

Good luck on your choice.

Loren

[Gary Curtis]

I just returned from a woodworking seminar at the Felder showroom in Sacramento California. We used a saw with a 12-inch blade. (actually a Metric size)

Noise was considerable. My shop saw is a 5hp General cabinet type with a 10-inch blade. Much quieter than the 12-inch.

Now my friend just bought a 3hp Delta Unisaw. With less horsepower, his is noisier ( and has more vibration) than my 5hp unit. Judging from that, size of the motor doesn't contribute much. A radial arm saw doesn't have half the blade covered by the machine table, like a Cabinet Saw. So for a given motor and blade size, it will make more noise.

If you are intent on a cabinet saw, an overhead blade guard would make some difference.

Gary Curtis

[Tom Henderson2]

Thanks Loren.

I just looked at the RAS motor info, and it is turning at 3450 RPM. The Delta website says the Unisaw blade is turning at 4,000 RPM... and I was concerned that the higher speed might make the blade "shriek" worse, even when just spinning in the air and not cutting.

But it sounds like the cabinet saw is not likely to be significantly louder than the existing RAS, so that is good news.

-Tom H.
Ventura, CA

[Eric Bong]

Tom,
My PM2000 is much quiter than my old contractors saw. I do have a dB meter so I took some measurements of the machines that I had. All measurements were taken from typical operating distance from the tool.

PM2000 82 dB (with a forrest WWII blade at maximum height)
12" Drill Press 65 dB
6" Jointer 85 dB
1.5HP Dust collector 76 dB
14" BS 78 dB
10" Chop Saw 107 dB

Unfortunately the contractors saw is not working any more so I can't provide you with a comparison.

A good rule of thumb is, a 10 dB increase is percieved to be twice as loud. (i.e. 100 dB sounds twice as loud as 90 dB.)

I did not fire up the router or lunchbox planer. The family puts up with alot, but not as much after midnight.:D

[Dave MacArthur]

another factor is the blade--newer blades often have curvy slots cut in them to reduce /dampen vibration and this cuts down on the noise drastically. I have a PM66, and the noise seems to me about half again as loud when I use an older Delta carbide blade, vs. a new forest ww II.

[Andrew Williams]

Don't forget that your ears are biased to hear the frequencies of spoken voice much more easily than very low frequencies. If you have to endure 100dB in the 1-2 kHz range it is unbelievably loud and painful, whereas 100dB at 30Hz is just a big rumble. This is why routers and chopsaws are so annoying.

[Pat Germain]

I was doing some reading on David Marks' web site recently. Somewhere on there he mentioned his Delta Unisaw included sound deadening material. There were no further details.

I expect what Marks did was line the inside of his saw with something like that thick, heavy stuff used by "bass-heads". Those guys put it inside their car doors and trunk area to reduce vibration while they're annoying everyone around them going, "BOOM!-BOOM!, chaka-chaka, BOOM!-BOOM!, chaka-chaka..".

This stuff is black and comes in small sheets. Imagine square sheets of "Rhino-Liner"; the stuff sprayed onto pickup truck beds. It's flexible, very dense and I think one side is peel-and-stick.

Dollars to doughnuts, applying sound deadening material to a few strategic locations inside a cabinet saw would go a long way in reducing noise and vibration. Next time I have lunch with David Marks, I'll ask him about it. ;)

Here's a link for one of the manufacturers: http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_dynaliner.html

[Jim Becker]

The RAS is likely to be the noisy member of that list...motor exposed and also it's not usually an induction motor. Cabinet saws are not that noisy, since the cabinet, itself, provides a buffer. "Cutting" is what produces the noise!

[Dan Drager]

Tom, This response has nothing to do with your noise question, but rather your comment about "replacing" your RAS with a TS. IMHO, if you have the room, that you do as I did and keep the RAS as a cutoff / crosscut saw. No more convenient tool in my shop. Vitually no set up and is always ready to quickly and accurately cross cut boards to length.

[Tom Henderson2]

Pat-

Interesting idea... might be worth pursuing someday. The same idea ought to apply for router cabinets as well.

-Tom H.

[Tom Henderson2]

Dan-

I am very space-constraind and if I buy the TS then the RAS has to go. If I'm lucky maybe a chop saw will take its place someday, but space for that will be at a premium as well.

-Tom H.

[Dave Ray]

Tom, my vote would be for the TS, but you might want to check on your RAS anyway. It seems Sears recalled a lot of their RAS's for a safety reason, blade guard I believe. You said you have been AWOL from WW for years maybe you missed this. I have both tools but the TS can do much more for me.

[Loren Hedahl]

Dan-

I am very space-constraind and if I buy the TS then the RAS has to go. If I'm lucky maybe a chop saw will take its place someday, but space for that will be at a premium as well.

-Tom H.

A RAS can be placed along a wall and needs no open space to accomplish both rip and cross-cut functions, where a TS needs considerable open space on all four sides to accomplish the same functions.

I started out with a 9 inch Craftsman RAS that I bought used cheap, because I was a poor student. With a premium carbide rip blade it rips smoothly and accurately and likewise properly set up its cross cut performance is also smooth and accurate. I still use this saw regularly.

An 8 inch stone can be installed that will sharpen with a simple jig and likewise a disc can be installed to make it perform as a disc sander.

I never swing the arm, but use a jig for miters. Fine adjustment of the perpendicular tracking is better accomplished by shimming the fence/table.

Accuracy of cut has never been a problem, kick back while ripping has never occurred since I always set the guard and pawls to the board first. The table is kept reasonably un-kerfed with Bondo.

The greatest annoyance for me is impossible dust control.

So if I were under the constraints as I understand you are, in space and funds, I would learn how to get the best out of the RAS you have. I would invest in a good broom, dust pan, dust mask and shop vac a premium rip and cross cut blade. This is no different than you would need for a TS. Then the money I saved by not changing to a different saw, I would spend for wood, wood and more wood.

Just my thoughts on the situation. Your mileage may vary. Good luck in your decision.

Loren

[Brian Penning]

I dunno..maybe I'm missing something, but if you're worried about the noise from a TS when setting up a shop then the TS is one of the least of noisy machines you've got to be concerned about.