A gloat, but..... OUCH

[Todd Burch]

I spent some time on the phone with Felder this evening. They put my name on a 20" jointer/planer combo machine (AD751). 10 hp, 3 phase (gotta get a rotary converter, another $1800... round abouts). Several features like mortising unit w/ mobility cart, mobility cart for jointer/planer, 4 wheel power feeder for jointer, power table up & down, table extension, yada, yada, yada.

So, the shop might get rearranged a bit. It will take 3 months to get here - hope I'm still in business to take delivery!

If all 1700+ Saw Mill Creek members each send me $10, I could pay for this puppy AND have some money to go out and eat dinner. That's the OUCH.

Let me see - it's 9:15pm. Better get out to the shop and finish some of the those jobs in the queue...

Todd.

[Tom Sweeney]

Todd - Honey look at these great big slabs of bubinga - I can sell 2 huge conference tables if I buy them

Mrs. Burch - Todd we can't afford that unless you pre sell one

Todd -Yes Dear

Todd- I sold one & bought the 2 slabs

Mrs. Burch- Ok hopefully we'll make enough$$ off them

Todd - Honey since I sold that big conference table - We now have to mortgage the house to buy bigger tools

Mrs. Burch - I hope you like your shop!!!

:D :D :D :D

Just kidding - not to mention jealous -Congrats Todd -now stop playing with sketchup & get to work! :p

[Bob Lasley]

Todd,

You're in deep enough now, you'll never be able to quit this business if you wanted too! :D

When you get that baby going, holler................I think I may want to come over and play!

Bob

[Martin Shupe]

Congratulations, Todd.

The next time I get some really wide cherry, I'll put it on the truck and bring it down so you can plane it for me.

Actually, I am only half kidding. Sure wish I had a 20 inch jointer/planer!

[Todd Burch]

Martin, since you are HALF kidding, then you have to joint that wide cherry, and I'll plane it for you!! Shoot, with that nice Ray Iles smoother you have, that will be a piece of cake for you!!

[Todd Burch]

Tom, the conversation went more like this:

Todd: Honey, so-and-so wants a table. I think I'll sell him on the bubinga from Canada.

Connie: Just use maple. He'll never know the difference. Don't even give him the option...

Todd: He likes the bubinga. I'm ordering two slabs; one for him and the other one on spec.

Connie: Where you going to keep it?

Todd: I thought I would hang it over our bed.

Connie: How you going to machine it?

Todd: Dunno. I'll worry about that when it gets here.

[Wes Bischel]

Used jointer - great deal for someone

Used planer - great deal for someone

New tool - OUCH!!


Gee, it doesn't work out like the Ad on TV.


It's 12:20AM do you know where Todd is? That's right in the shop!


Congratulations on the pending addition. :D

Wes

[Dennis Peacock]

Hey Todd.....

1st of all....congrats on your new tool purchase.!!!!

I'm jealous of the new tool, but not the money it took to get it. Maybe Lasley and I will venture down your way to visit and see that "thang" when you get it in and all setup. I'd like to come for a visit any way. Woodworkers are a great bunch of folks.!!!!!

[Glenn Clabo]

If all 1700+ Saw Mill Creek members each send me $10, I could pay for this puppy AND have some money to go out and eat dinner. That's the OUCH.
Todd.

Checks in the mail. ;)

[Tony Falotico]

Hey Todd -- any nice homes available on your street, I think you need me as a neighbor! Congrats on the new equipment and keep up the good work. Do good, fair and honest work and the jobs will keep coming.

[Rob Russell]

I spent some time on the phone with Felder this evening. They put my name on a 20" jointer/planer combo machine (AD751). 10 hp, 3 phase (gotta get a rotary converter, another $1800... round abouts). Several features like mortising unit w/ mobility cart, mobility cart for jointer/planer, 4 wheel power feeder for jointer, power table up & down, table extension, yada, yada, yada.

Todd.

Todd,

Congrats on joining the "only cry once club". It hurts, but pretty soon the thing that will hurt more is the grin every time you see/work with the equipment.

A couple of suggestions, if I may.

1) Join the Felder Owner's Group on Yahoo Groups. Here's the link. there is a well established group of Felder owners who can give you tons of advice on how to get the most out of your machine, including some custom accessories developed by Felder owners. Felder monitors the forum and does listen to what they hear.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/felder-woodworking/

2) On your machinery orders:

Ditch the mortising accessory and go with the FD-250 standalone mortiser. There are several reasons. First, the FD-250 takes the extension tables where the mortising accessory doesn't. That can be a big deal when you're trying to mortise long boards. Felder has a used FD-250 for $2k right now, so the cost difference between the mortising table and the FD-250 isn't that great.

Cancel the mobility kit for the AD751. Buy a narrow spread pallet jack instead. Far more useful, I think easier to move the machine around, and about the same cost.

Seriously consider adding the variable feed speed to the machine. It will give you a wider range of speeds (13-46 FPM instead of 20 and 40).

There are a some folks who love the Tersa head system - you might consider it.

Lastly - which power table lift did you get? The "manual" version or the DigiDrive (keypad). I've got the keypad version and wouldn't go any other way.

The variable feed speed and Tersa head are "do it now" not as field upgrade sort of things.

You might consider adding the Europlug to the AD751 (option #15 - off the the main power switch). It gives you a socket at the base of the machine to plug the power feeder into.

Which 4-wheel feeder did you get - the F48 or Vario4? Either is a bit overkill for the j/p, IMHO. I've got the Vario4 for my saw/shaper and just ordered an F38 for the jointer/planer. See if you can get Felder to install the mount for the power feeder (the machine base isn't drilled/tapped for it from the factory).

Lastly - and most important - order the commissioning. It's not quite as important with the j/p as with the saw/shaper, but it's the best option Felder offers.

Congrats again!

Rob

[Steve Jenkins]

Todd, congrats on the new machine. I don't know if you are aware of it but there is a felder owners site on yahoo. It is "Felder Owners Group". A ton of good info and some of those guys are extremely technical.
http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/felder-woodworking
I know you will enjoy the felder. Steve

[Tyler Howell]

Todd,

Way to go. Now my $10.00 contribution entitles me to unlimited visits and use of our machine right??? ;)
I’ll come and visit now. It’s pretty cold up here in the frozen north. :p

Tyler

[Todd Burch]

Hi Rob. It's all your fault!! From your post yesterday about having a Felder in your basement.

Here's my options:
- 3 phase, 230 volts
- 60 hertz
- 10 HP
- star-delta start
- switch for forward & reverse (to run mortiser)
- 3-phase euro plug (for power feeder)
- anodized fence
- jointer comfort guard (folds down out of the way)
- digital height display - mm (not inches)
- power drive (power table up/down - keypad)
- 2nd spring loaded pressure bar
- variable speed drive (13-46 ft/minute)
- mobility kit
- mortiser table
- mortiser chuck
- mortiser mobility kit
- extended cam clamp for mortiser
- jointer/planer mobility kit
- mortising bit kit
- planer table extension table
- digital display for mortiser
- extended warranty (3 year parts)

I did not get the adjustable planer bed rollers (I figured a 10 hp machine and a little wax would be plenty).

So, you're saying, ditch the mortiser accessory and the mobility kit, and get the used machine and a pallet jack. Pallet jack will be handy for the rotary phase convert (about 327 pounds) and the wide belt sander, 'til I get a bigger shop and more floor space.

As far as the head goes, my first choice would be a Byrd Tool shelical head, but that is not offered. My second choice would be a helical head, but that's not offered either. The Felder cutterhead with its Esta-style knives seem easy and fast to replace. What category, or categories, would the Tersa head option ($565) give me an improvement? Successfully planing/jointing highly figured woods is the objective.

I ordered the 4-wheel, VarioFeed "4" (3-18 feet per minute, 1 HP, 3 phase), with the trianglular mounting bracket. Is one of the smaller units better? This was the biggest one.

Finally, what is the "commissioning"?

Thanks Rob, and Steve for the link.

Tony, there might be a nice home on my street for sale - MINE!! (hope not though!)

Dennis, you and Bob just come on down any time! Bring wood to offer as a visiting sacrifice.

[Jim Becker]

Ok...email me your address when you get the machine so I can send down "the Jet" for pictures of your larger aircraft carrier! :D

Seriously, that's going to be a wonderful addition to your shop, especially with the kind of work you seem to be moving toward with the slabs, et al.

On the Tersa head...the knife change out/adjustment is "really fast". That means you can shift a knife in a few seconds should you get a nick and it also means you can swap out different "formulas" of knives very fast, depending on the type of wood you are working with. The Esta system is very nice, too, but requires more work since screws are involved. Not so with the tersa...just knock the gibs down, slide the knife to reverse, change or offset and turn on the machine to reset the gibs via centrifugal force. And, of course...make sure you don't cut the #$% out of your fingers in the process! Those puppies are sharp. :rolleyes:

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Todd

Congratulations on the new machine! I thought I was doing it up big time with a Minimax! Good luck with it, and I am glad to hear business is good enough for this kind of investment.

Bill

[John Scarpa]

Todd,
That's a super WOW! :) Your shop has moved into the super heavy duty industrial phase. I can't wait to see the kind of work that's going to becoming out of that shop now that you can automate moving "trees" through the Felder. :D
John

[Todd Burch]

Well, I was wrong. I don't need $10 from every member!! :D

I changed my order based on more research and a good call with Rob Russell. I ditched the attached mortising unit and the mobility kit for the jointer/planer, and I saved a little money doing that.

HOWEVER, in doing so, I opted for a standalone FD-250 mortiser, (single phase, variable speed), a couple accessories, and an RL160 dust collector. Ugg.

I now need $11.75 from every member!! :eek: :eek: (Just kidding, obviously)

So, now it's hurry up and wait until April. Perhaps I can make a ton of $$ between now and then... Note to self: better get back to work...

Todd.

(maybe their prices are why they make you wait 3 months to take delivery...)

[Rob Russell]

Well, I was wrong. I don't need $10 from every member!! :D

I changed my order based on more research and a good call with Rob Russell. I ditched the attached mortising unit and the mobility kit for the jointer/planer, and I saved a little money doing that.

HOWEVER, in doing so, I opted for a standalone FD-250 mortiser, (single phase, variable speed), a couple accessories, and an RL160 dust collector. Ugg.

I now need $11.75 from every member!! :eek: :eek: (Just kidding, obviously)

So, now it's hurry up and wait until April. Perhaps I can make a ton of $$ between now and then... Note to self: better get back to work...

Todd.

(maybe their prices are why they make you wait 3 months to take delivery...)

Hey Todd,

It was really nice chatting with you.

So you went with the RL160 - huh? It's a whole different lookin' beast than any dust collector you'll see in the US, but it's a sensible approach. Gives 2-stage collection with huge rollout bins for the chips/dust. Between now and April you can box in the little pad in the back you were talking about. Good choice.

Guess it's a really good thing we didn't get to talking about their sliding saw/shapers. We've heard your cryin' all over the country ... :D


Here a link to the PhasePerfect folks I was talking about (and a site to buy it).

http://www.phaseperfect.com/ (manufacturer's site)
http://www.cncpros.net/Phase_Converters.htm (1 place to buy)

I don't have the PP, but if I weren't wrapping up building a rotary phase convertor, I'd buy one of those over a regular commercial RPC. YMMV.

Congrats again on the purchases.

Rob

[Archie Hollingsworth]

I just purchased a "pannel" to make a phase converter. I scrounged a 15 hp motor and purchased the "pannel" for a round 300 dollars. which will allow me to spin a 7 1/2 hp tool.
there is a ton of info on phase conversion in the metalworking forums.

rule of thumb is the Ideler motor has to be twice the size of the largest motor on your machine or machines. (do not add the horsepowers together).,

as for a pannel look on ebay. I could not have purchased the parts for what i paid for the pannel.

Happy hunting.
archie =) =) =)

[Archie Hollingsworth]

On another note. the phase perfect is nice but I believe there are not any "electronics" on the machine you are getting. the only real reason to run a phase perfect is on cnc eqipment. motors are "Happy" on a rotary converter.

IMHO

Happy Hunting
archie =) =) =)

[Chris Padilla]

Yowzer, Archie...you certainly dug this one up from the past! :)

[Rob Russell]

Archie,

I don't know what rule of thumb you're following, but my understanding of RPC's is that you can start a motor equivalent to the size of your idler motor. You may have problems trying to start a heavily loaded motor of equivalent size. An example would be a compressor that doesn't have a pressure-release head so the motor is trying to start the compressor head against the pressure in the tank. Other than that, to start his 10 HP jointer/planer, a good 10 HP RPC would be fine - he doesn't need a 20 HP idler.

As far as the jointer/planer not having any "electronics", I beg to differ. The attached (sorry sorta fuzzy) picture shows the control panel from the same basic machine (7.5 HP motor instead of 10 HP).

Rob