Shopping for 8" Jointer

[Pat Germain]

I'm hoping to soon buy an 8" jointer for my home shop. Right now, I'm considering three models and would appreciate any input and suggestions.

- Shop Fox 8" Jointer: $886 on Amazon.com
- Jet JJ-CS 8" Jointer: $999 at my local Woodcraft
- Powermatic 60B 8" Jointer: $1,199 at store in Denver

That Powermatic seems like a pretty good deal to me, but I admit I don't know for certain. I always considered PM to be the "El Primo" and assumed they were out of my reach. However, if they really are such great tools, it might be worth an extra $200 over the Jet to get a PM. I could pick it up myself in Denver and save shipping costs.

I could also pick up the Jet jointer only a few minutes from my house.

The Shop Fox would require shipping costs. The same dealer in Denver which has the PM jointer is supposedly also a Shop Fox dealer, but I haven't found any Shop Fox information on their web site. I'll try to call them later today.

Thanks!

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Just curious as to why Grizzly's not on your list. They get good reviews & the prices are competitive. When I upgrade to an 8"er, I'll be getting one.

No affiliation.

[Pat Germain]

Good Quesion, Rob. Actually, I think I am considering Grizzly. I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression Shop Fox tools are Grizzly tools for "brick & mortar" stores; same tool, different paint. (Which seems really confusing since they're on Amazon.com.) I prefer to support my local dealers and pick it up myself, but won't pass up an especially good deal online. Thus, when considering Grizzly, I prefer to look at Shop Fox at my local dealer and Shop Fox is also what I'm finding on Amazon.com.

If my logic is flawed here, by all means, chime in.

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I honestly don't know. I thought they were two separate manufacturers but you could be right. Maybe someone in the know will chime in.

[Ken Werner]

I dunno about Griz and S. Fox, but how about looking for a used 8" PM? Some good deals can be had if you can sit tight a bit.

Ken

[Pat Germain]

Oh, and thanks for the Grizzly recommendation. Their prices are very good. It's nice to know their quality is also good.

[Pat Germain]

I dunno about Griz and S. Fox, but how about looking for a used 8" PM? Some good deals can be had if you can sit tight a bit.

Ken

Good suggestion, Ken. Unfortunately, I've been looking and I have seen only one used 8" jointer for sale in my entire state. That jointer is a Delta and it seems nice, but quite overpriced.

I would surely jump on a used 8" PM Jointer. I'll keep my eyes open, but I don't have much hope.

[Larry Fox]

A used DJ-20 is also a good choice if you can find one at a reasonable price.

[Aaron Hamilton]

I am taking delivery on my ShopFox 8" W1741 w/ parellologram beds this week. You are correct, ShopFox & Grizzly are the same units, different paint. I was able to go to a local dealer and order the ShopFox for cheaper than I could get the same Grizzly model shipped to my door.

I also like the fit and finish of the SF better. As for Jet & Powermatic, I'm sure they may be better machines for agressive, daily use, but I'm a weekend warrior and couldn't justify the extra expense for something I'll probably never wear out. I would definitely look in to P-beds.

[Pat Germain]

Great info, Aaron. The Shop Fox is sounding like a very good option. I'm also more of a weekend warrior, but I certainly don't want lousy tools.

I've read a couple of descriptions of paralellogram beds, but I'm still not grasping the concept. I'll have to do more research.

PS: I get a chuckle out of your avatar. Both of my parents work for Oklahoma State University.

[Nancy Laird]

Please, before you buy ANYTHING, take a look at the new Steel City 8" machine. The 40605 model is $1499.99 at www.woodworker.com (http://www.woodworker.com), and you won't find a better-built machine around, IMHO.

Just my .02.

Nancy

[Benjamin Dahl]

Pat, I have the shop fox and have no complaints. I bought mine after listening to feedback here and found John Buzzurro's post to be very helpful:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51616&highlight=shop+jointer
I think you should be able to find a local dealer in the Denver area.
A couple of weeks ago I did see the Steel City that Nancy mentions and that does look like a nice machine.
Ben

[Pat Germain]

Please, before you buy ANYTHING, take a look at the new Steel City 8" machine. The 40605 model is $1499.99 at www.woodworker.com (http://www.woodworker.com), and you won't find a better-built machine around, IMHO.

Just my .02.

Nancy

Thanks, Nancy. My local Woodcraft carries Steel City tools. I'm pretty sure I caught a Steel City 8" jointer out of the corner of my eye during my last visit. I'll give it a closer look.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

You should be able to get the Shop Fox from a local dealer for less than the price you posted from Amazon. I paid 650 for my W1741 about 6 months ago. There has been a price increase since then, but I wouldnt think it would be that much.

[Chris Jenkins]

Pat,

I'm open to both the JET and the PM. I had a Griz BS before and it seemed like I had to constantly pull maintenance on the table due to light rust, where my other machines were fine (and no I wasn't sawing green lumber on the BS at the time). I know the BS table was small and EZ to keep up with, don't know if I would go that route with all that steel on a jointer.

I have some JET products and have been happy with them. I have more PM products and love my mustard. Rumor has it the 60 is getting a face lift from a local dealer I talked to. You may want to try and wait it out, don't know when it is due to hit the market.

[David Tiell]

Like Benjamin, I checked the feedback here and decided to go with the Shop Fox 1741, which I actually just finished ordering about 15 minutes ago. While I would love to have a DJ-20, Steel City, or Powermatic, for what I do, the Shop Fox will last me a lifetime, so i didn't see the need to spend the extra cash on the big name jointers.

[JayStPeter]

It's been a while, but I recall the PM60B not doing well in some magazine tests. I don't think it is worth the extra bucks.
Personally, I think the cheaper the better. I don't know of a bad 8" jointer that's currently for sale. There just isn't much to a jointer. The 6" size is different, but all the 8"ers are beefy enough to work well for a hobbiest for a good long time.
Look for deals based on specs, not brand. Consider HP, cutterhead (3/4 knife or some kind of quick change), and fence design. Mine has the minimal specs in all categories and works fine. But, you may be willing to pay more for one feature or another.
Usually I advocate going for the best tool you can afford. But, I just don't find that necessary for this particular tool. The only thing I would (did) pay extra for is a carbide insert cutterhead. But you can add that to pretty much any of them later.

[brian lanning]

I've read a couple of descriptions of paralellogram beds, but I'm still not grasping the concept. I'll have to do more research.


Hi Pat. Another vote from me for grizzly. I have the G0490 which is a clone of the delta dj-20. The main differences are that for the grizzly, the switch is on a post rather than on the base, and the griz has a 3hp chinese motor whereas the delta has a 1.5hp (still american?) motor. I believe the delta is main in taiwan now if that matters.

The traditional jointer design involves dovetailed ways which are sort of rails for the bed to ride in. This is basically a slope that the bed sits on. The hand wheel or level moves the bed up hill or down hill to decress or increase depth of cut. The downside is that this can be hard to adjust since it involves shims. People do it all the time though.

The parallelogram bed is more like four cams in each corner of the bed. When you move the lever or turn the wheel, the cams turn in unison raising or lowering the bed. The advantage is that they're supposed to be a lot easier to adjust. I haven't done it yet though. Mine was dead flat and parallel out of the box.

Grizzly has great customer service. The down side is that if there's a problem, you may have to ship the machine back. Many people have reported shipping damage as well. My two machines arrived to the chicago area unharmed.

brian

[Greg Cole]

I am a happy Grizz owner, 8" model G0586. No issues with the machine, none at all. Most imports in this price range are about the same, I went with Grizz b/c I can drive to Springfield MO in a couple hours.
I would seriously look into getting one delivered with the shelix head if you do anything with figured stock. I bought spare knives with mine that I have yet to use or I'd have a shelix waiting for the knives to wear or get abused....:cool:
I almost kick my own a_ _ for not getting a bigger one but that was just a push to tool up on a few good Neander tools. :D

Cheers & happy shopping.

Greg

[Kim Spence]

I agree with Greg here, take a look at a machine with the carbide "shelix" cutterhead. I have the Grizzly G0593, same as Greg's G0586 with addition of Grizzly's brand of carbide cutterhead. I love this machine. I'm not sure if there is a Shop Fox equivalent that includes the carbide head.

The G0593 is on sale now for $1068 delivered to your door.

[Aaron Hamilton]

Pat,
Since you are leaning the Shop Fox direction. Here's some more info that may be helpful.

I picked up the W1741 for $799 delivered from a local dealer. That's about $90 cheaper than Amazon and you don't pay shipping. I've heard you can get it even closer to $700 at some dealers.

A couple of reasons I chose the W1741 - and I think they are worth the extra $100 moving from the basic 8" jointer.

1. P-beds : I've had to adjust the tables and clean gibbways on an old style jointer - not fun. Apparently P-beds make this process much easier and hold their adjustment better.
2. Built in heavy duty mobile base: The mobile base is a BREEZE to use and when you are dealing with a 500lb+ piece of machinery, it is a nice feature to just stomp that lever and roll it.
3. Service : I've heard great things about the Grizzly cust svc. You can even look around and find posts on the creek from the owner of Grizzly tools. Then, couple that with the fact that my local hardware supplier (who I really like) is my point of contact. I think it's a great combination.
4. Reviews - if you read the reviews online and on the creek - it gets great reviews. I would only pick it over a Grizz for the finish. I think it has a great look and fits in well with my Jet collection.

Hope this helps!

[Pat Germain]

After reading all your comments, I was all hyped up to get the Shop Fox W1741. I called my local dealer in Denver. He was hesitant at first, then said he could order it no problem. He quoted me a price of $949. :confused: Has this tool gone up that much recently, or is my local Shop Fox dealer just jacking up the price more than most other places?

Now I'm back to square one.

The Grizzly web page suggests they're having a sale on the G0586. It's $738.25 with shipping. Perhaps that would be a good option.

[David Tiell]

After reading all your comments, I was all hyped up to get the Shop Fox W1741. I called my local dealer in Denver. He was hesitant at first, then said he could order it no problem. He quoted me a price of $949. :confused: Has this tool gone up that much recently, or is my local Shop Fox dealer just jacking up the price more than most other places?

Now I'm back to square one.

The Grizzly web page suggests they're having a sale on the G0586. It's $738.25 with shipping. Perhaps that would be a good option.
I ordered my 1741 today from machinerydistributors.com for $889 with free shipping. That seems to be about the cheapest I could find it. Every dealer I talked to said that the manufacturer set a price they couldn't sell below without losing their distribution rights. So to get competetive, most are offering free shipping with that set price.

[ryan smythe]

hey pat have a look at this one
http://machinerydistributors.com/w1741.htm

[Pat Germain]

Many thanks, guys. I didn't find that web site when searching for Shop Fox dealers. I guess the price has gone up. Machinery Distributors has the best price I've seen.

[Benjamin Dahl]

I bought mine from Bibb tool and they have a price that is now 886.66 with freight shipping included. that is more than I paid but still less than your local dealer.
Ben

[Steve Jensen]

Grizzly has joiners on sale right now, you might check out http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=450000

[Tom Maple]

Pat,
The "retail" prices on Shop Fox can vary a great deal in the same area. I had one dealer in my area tell me he could order the 1741 8" jointer for $1100. Another dealer was having a spring promotion and got it for me for $750. This was just a month ago. I haven't even opened the crates yet, but I couldn't pass up the good price. Another tool dealer sells them for $799 in Cleveland.
Keep looking, it should be worth it for this machine.

[Aaron Hamilton]

Pat,
David and Ryan beat me to it - machinerydistributors.com was going to be my 2nd source if I couldn't find a dealer. Your local dealer is jacking up the price or their freight-in charge is much higher than here in Dallas, which would make sense.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Pat, have you checked w/ Shop Fox to see if there is another dealer in the Denver area or nearby? That price seems bogus, but some have reported big price jumps. I paid $832 out the door a couple months ago and I've seen a lot of guys here get it for far less than that recently. I think $800 is (was?) retail on the thing; I think he just wants to move what he has in stock. Tell him he has to do better and if he doesn't, then walk. SF and Grizzly are the same company, so Grizz is always an option and I would deal direct before going through Amazon. You can also find the SF online for less than $800, but dealing with unknown dealers is always caveat emptor.

This very subject has been talked about a lot. Use the search function for 1741 or w1741 or take a look at my comments in this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=53576

I think the notion that PM will be more durable is bunk. They are all made in Asia now, many in the same factories. With PM you are paying a premium for the name these days.

As for the Steel City; no way would I buy that. Made in Asia (like Grizz, ShopFox, Jet, PM, etc), less HP, no mag switch, 3-cutter head (vs. 4) and about 40% more money. The SC, the Grizz, and the SF are all clones of the Delta DJ20 (at least one model of that is now Asian made too). They are virtually identical machines. The only thing you get from the SC is a 5 yr warranty vs. 2 yr from SF (and 1 yr from Grizz). Less features=more $?

[Chris Schoolland]

We have a 6" PM at work and I am astounded at how poorly it holds adjustment. We have to adjust it far too often and even then the tables don't get parallel. We also have the PM 15" spiral planer, which is quiet, but has it's problems too. Before working with these two I thought PM was high end, but now I'm not so sure. CHRIS

[Dave MacArthur]

Pat,
I would wait a few days and check your local used tool market! I was going to buy the 8" Grizzly that rated well in a recent review of 8" jointers, but then I found an UNUSED Delta DJ20 with a mobile base on Craigslist. I got the thing for $700 with the base!

I just pulled down the Denver craigslist, and here is a DJ20 and some other 8" jointers you could pick up tomorrow:
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/336934995.html $899, could probably get it for 600-700

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/336931102.html DELTA UNISAW WITH BEISEMEYER FENCE 2005 MODEL - $1300
MODEL 36R31X BC 50 SELLS NEW FOR $1995 MOBILE BASE, DATO SET, EXTRA BLADES, THE SAW HAS NOT BEEN USED MUCH AT ALL. I ALSO HAVE A DELTA X PLANER, 8" JOINTER, AND A MORTISING MACHINE AVAILABLE AS WELL AS A SMALL DUST COLLECTOR SOME ROUTERS, AND A JET DRILL PRESS.
970-389-0611

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/331331903.html
several large tools, 24" bandsaw $1200.00, 10" enlon cabinet saw with extension table and precision fence $800.00, grizzly edge sander $200.00, 8" jointer, $500.00, all like new. call 720-933-8994 Bob

[Pat Germain]

Thanks for the comments about Powermatic. I guess they're not what they used to be.

I plan to call Shop Fox again and ask if there's another dealer in Colorado. If not, I'll call the first dealer back and ask if they can drop their price. They don't have any SF jointers in stock, so they're not really motivated to move them out the door. I guess it can't hurt to ask.

Thanks for the used links, Dave. I've been looking at that Delta 8" jointer. I think he wants too much for it. He's had it on the market for a couple weeks. Personally, I'd rather pay just under $900 for a new tool than just under $800 used.

Again, I appreciate all the help, everyone. I have been doing research online; on other threads here and web sites elsewhere. This combined with your comments is making this purchase much more interesting.

Question: Machinery Distributors and Bibb Tool ship to a local loading dock. Does Grizzly do the same, or will they ship to my home? I'm somewhat weary of dealing with an unknown loading dock. If the tool is damaged, it's up to the shipping company, and not the dealer, to make it right.

[Kim Spence]

Grizz will ship right to your door. But depending on the carrier you may have to pay extra for Lift Gate service. My G0593 came via Saia Transport and they didn't charge me any extra for Lift Gate, but I did have to wait a couple extra days.

Kim

[Matt Day]

I ordered my 1741 from Bibb Tool a few months ago and got it delivered for $700. This was during a sale with free freight and right before the manufacturer imposed a price increase. It seems that most distributors have increased the price. You might want to ask your local dealer if they could match the online price.

The G0586 is 8", just a little less power and more difficult to adjust than it's big brother. I adjusted mine once when I got it and have left it alone since, so I'm not sure how big of an issue that really is.

You might be able to get a nice deal on a jointer from Wilke, as it seems they may not be manufacturing machinery anymore.

[Cary Swoveland]

...I have the Grizzly G0593, same as Greg's G0586 with addition of Grizzly's brand of carbide cutterhead. I love this machine....

...The G0593 is on sale now for $1068 delivered to your door...

Another vote for the GO593. Great machine.

Cary

[Jake Helmboldt]

Pat, I bought my Shop Fox bandsaw from Bibb and had no problem. While I'm not certain how the freight details work if you pick it up at the terminal and it appears damaged you can refuse delivery. I would check with the seller to see what their policy is on taking care of those kinds of issues.

Grizzly is famous for sending new parts or new machines altogether when something arrives damaged. Pay with a credit card and you always have the recourse of a charge-back if it were to come to that.

One more reason why I drove 2 hours to get my 1741; just to have a dealer to hold accountable should anything be badly wrong.

[Steven Triggs]

- Shop Fox 8" Jointer: $886 on Amazon.com
- Jet JJ-CS 8" Jointer: $999 at my local Woodcraft
- Powermatic 60B 8" Jointer: $1,199 at store in Denver


Just an FYI:
That Shop Fox jointer can be bought from Bibb Tool for $886.66 with free shipping:
http://www.bibbtool.com/shop-parallelogram-jointer-with-76516-table-220v-single-phase-p-746.html

[Pat Germain]

Today I pulled the trigger and ordered a Shop Fox W1741 8" jointer. This tool is probably a little more than what I need right now. I was considering getting a slightly less expensive model with a smaller motor and without parallelogram beds. However, I expect the W1741 will last me the rest of my life with no, "I should have got a ..." regrets to come later. Thanks for the help, everyone.

I ordered the jointer from Bibb tool. The woman I talked to there was very friendly and helpful. She even checked the inventory and called me right back in order to give me an accurate delivery date. Let's hope the delivery goes just as well.

Now I just have to get going on wiring my shop for 220V. :)

[Jeff Raymond]

I just bought a 6" Rockwell in perfect condition for $175 cash money for my little work. It's about a 1950s vintage, and weighs about 250 pounds (real cast iron). It has a 120/230v motor and cuts like a champ, nice and smooth with no vibration.

I would encourage anyone to seek out really high quality vintage tools of any size before plunking down outrageous prices for imported stuff of marginal quality.

But that's just me.

[Kim Spence]

I just bought a 6" Rockwell in perfect condition for $175 cash money for my little work. It's about a 1950s vintage, and weighs about 250 pounds (real cast iron). It has a 120/230v motor and cuts like a champ, nice and smooth with no vibration.

I would encourage anyone to seek out really high quality vintage tools of any size before plunking down outrageous prices for imported stuff of marginal quality.

But that's just me.
Jeff - Congrats on finding a good deal on some vintage iron! Vintage tools have appeal not only because of their quality but because of their history, interesting to think of all the stuff produced on them! I'd like to find a vintage Unisaw to restore...to go along with my newer imported Unisaw and SawStop. I own a shop full of imported tools that I feel I paid a reasonable price for and the quality is better than marginal. Just my opinion.

And Pat, congrats on the SF Jointer, please post pics when it arrives!

Kim

[Pat Germain]

I just bought a 6" Rockwell in perfect condition for $175 cash money for my little work. It's about a 1950s vintage, and weighs about 250 pounds (real cast iron). It has a 120/230v motor and cuts like a champ, nice and smooth with no vibration.

I would encourage anyone to seek out really high quality vintage tools of any size before plunking down outrageous prices for imported stuff of marginal quality.

But that's just me.

I agree Jeff. Unfortunately, there just haven't been any good used tools, let alone vintage tools, for sale in my area. I've been checking craigslist and ebay. The only promising thing I found was a Delta DJ20, but the guy wants way too much for it. I see lots of used tools for sale in New York and New England. Obviously, buying such a tool and shipping it Colorado isn't practical.

Thus, if I could find a good deal on a vintage tool nearby, I'd go for it. Since I can't, I'm buying new. Also, I really don't think the SF jointer is of marginal quality and it's pretty much impossible to buy anything which isn't imported these days (including an "American" car).

[Pat Germain]

And Pat, congrats on the SF Jointer, please post pics when it arrives!

Kim

Thanks, Kim. Since you asked, I'll be sure to document the whole arrival and assembly process and post pics.

[Don Bullock]

Just an FYI:
That Shop Fox jointer can be bought from Bibb Tool for $886.66 with free shipping:
http://www.bibbtool.com/shop-parallelogram-jointer-with-76516-table-220v-single-phase-p-746.html

Fine print -- only free shipping if business to business with loading dock
It's -----
$420.00Commercial Freight (with Liftgate)
All you need is the delivery lowered to the ground

[Steven Triggs]

You can probably get it shipped to your nearest freight hub, and pick it up there in a pickup truck to take advantage of the free shipping. If you're thinking about buying it, you should call and ask.

Hope it works out for you...

[glenn bradley]

Good Quesion, Rob. Actually, I think I am considering Grizzly. I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression Shop Fox tools are Grizzly tools for "brick & mortar" stores; same tool, different paint. (Which seems really confusing since they're on Amazon.com.) I prefer to support my local dealers and pick it up myself, but won't pass up an especially good deal online. Thus, when considering Grizzly, I prefer to look at Shop Fox at my local dealer and Shop Fox is also what I'm finding on Amazon.com.

If my logic is flawed here, by all means, chime in.

SF is Griz "store" label. You will find some differences. The G0490 is currently at $750 with a 1 year warranty. The SF W1741 is around $900 with a 2 year warranty. Griz prices are stable, SF can vary by dealer and I've heard of folks getting them cheaper; especially if they can drive to pick it up.

[John Bush]

I have had the PM60B for three years and have been very happy with it. Beds were parallel out of the box and I did minimal fine tuning after sharpening the blades. Lots of power and lever adj. handles are easy to use. I rarely adj. the height of cut anyway, so it isn't a problem. I have a lot of older stock rough cut stock and am considering the new 12" Griz J/P with spiral insert head for the additional width. Anyone with J/P experience? Anyone else lookng for a PM60B? Thanks, John.

[Don Bullock]

Thia thread was very helpful. I just ordered a Grizzly G0490 that will be delivered next week.

[James Davis]

Did you check out the Classified ads on this site. I saw an 8" jointer there this morning


James

[Matt Day]

Guys, this thread is 2 months old. Pat is probably jointing away on his SF.

[Don Bullock]

Did you check out the Classified ads on this site. I saw an 8" jointer there this morning


James

James, Thanks for the information. East Texas isn't exactly close to California. That jointer shipped to me would be more than I'm paying for a new Grizzly. I looked for a used one locally, but didn't come up with one that looked like it was in good condition.


Guys, this thread is 2 months old. Pat is probably jointing away on his SF.

Matt, I realized that this thread is fairly old. I just made a statement that it was helpful to me when I was deciding on buying a jointer. It is very interesting, however, the see some of the prices quoted because they have gone up since the thread was started.