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Cliff Rohrabacher
05-28-2007, 8:37 PM
Every time I read this I get a tad misty.

Some information:

The Federalist Papers: www.foundingfathers.info/feder...ex.htm (http://www.foundingfathers.info/feder...ex.htm)

The Declaration of Independence: www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdoc...tion.html (http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdoc...tion.html)

The Constitution of the United States: www.law.emory.edu/FEDERAL/usconst.html (http://www.law.emory.edu/FEDERAL/usconst.html)


Some facts about our Founding Fathers:

The Declaration of Independence was signed by fifty-six brave souls.

The most famous were Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, and John Adams. But the story is far, far greater.

Of the original 56 signers 11 were Merchants, 9 were Farmers, 24 were Attorneys or Judges.
Nine died from combat in the Revolutionary War while the British captured and tortured five to death. The British sacked and burned of the colonials in doing so they burnt the homes of Eighteen of the Founding Fathers ransacking the properties and raping the women they found.

These were Humans their families were Humans. They all too often paid terribly for their love of this land and the freedoms they created for us today.


NEW YORK:
William Floyd fled the British living with his family as refugees in the wilderness where his wife died.

Lewis Morris’ home was destroyed and plundered by the British they burnt his land and butchered his livestock and caused his family to flee into the wild.

Francis Lewis lost his home and estate in raids and pillaginf by the British. The British imprisoned, tortured and raped his wife. Her treatment was so terrible that she dies almost immediately after release. Lewis died a pauper.

VIRGINIA:
Carter Braxton dies a pauper after he lost his shipping empire when the British seized it.

Thomas Nelson Jr. bankrupted himself to the tune of 2 million dollars, which he personally borrowed to support the revolution. The British general Cornwallis seized and occupied Nelson’s home during the pivotal battle of Yorktown. Nelson’s grave is unmarked to this day.

SOUTH CAROLINA
Edward Rutledge; Thomas Heyward Jr; and Arthur Middleton had their homes destroyed and pillaged before in 1780 they were captured by the British during the battle of Charlestown.

RHODE ISLAND
William Ellery’s home was burnt and pillaged when Newport was taken by the British.

NEW JERSEY
Supreme Court Justice Richard Stockton was imprisoned when tories ( traitors to the revolution) reported him to the British. In the British prison he was tortured and starved.. His entire estate and lands were seized and destroyed. Justice Stockton’s family lived on the public weal and kindness of strangers until they died. . In the British assault on New York, Francis Lewis's home and property were pillaged. His wife was captured and imprisoned; so harshly was she treated that she died soon after her release. Lewis spent the remainder of his days in relative poverty.

John Hart at age 65 was forced to abandon his dying wife. He was forced to flee the British in the winter of 1776 hiding in the wilderness. He had Thirteen children who were also chased into oblivion by the British. No one ever learned what became of them. put to flight. After the war Mrs. Hart was dead, the children were never found he was landless and pennyless dying a broken man.


PENNSYLVANIA
Thomas McKeam an Irish Immigrant was so despised by the british that they caused him to move his domicile with constant frequency. He died a pauper


Lesser known Signers: Dillery (many say it is Ellery), Hall, Clymer, George Walton, Gwinnett, Thomas Heyward Jr., Edward Rutledge, and Arthur Middleton were pauperized by British atrocities.

Others still:
George Wythe; William Whipple; Joseph Bartlett; Thomas Lynch; Benjamin Harrison; Richard Henry Lee; George Clinton; William Paca; Samuel Chase; L. Morris; William Floyd; Charles Carroll of Carrollton; Robert Morris; T. Willing; Benjamin Rush; Elbridge Gerry; Robert Treat Paine; William Hooper; Stephen Hopkins; William Ellery; George Clymer; Joseph Hewes.; Jason Wilson; Abraham Clark; Francis Hopkinson; Roger Sherman; Robert R. Livingston; John Witherspoon; Samuel Huntington; William Williams; Oliver Wolcott; Chas. Thomson; George Read; John Dickinson; Philip Livingston.

These brave souls began the great dream that is called the United States of America.

Jonathon Spafford
05-28-2007, 10:23 PM
That is really a great post... I think I have read some similar essay on the founding fathers! It is some good stuff that most people don't know and it should make us appreciate our freedom more!

Thanks for posting this!

Jim King
05-28-2007, 10:33 PM
Thankyou for this post. We need to read this every morning.

Charles McKinley
06-03-2007, 8:49 PM
Thank you Cliff,

As our pastor said on Memorial dayHumans need to set aside special times to REMEMBER because we forget. I fear that the cost of these sacrafices have been forgotten and that value cannot be recaptured without another great struggle.

Dave Anderson NH
06-04-2007, 4:38 PM
Truly fitting for your post #1775. Was it planned that way Cliff?

Dennis Peacock
06-04-2007, 5:33 PM
Awesome Cliff...!!!!!!!!!!!!! And THANK YOU!!!!!

May we always remember and do out best to not let all they did be in vain.

Von Bickley
06-04-2007, 6:16 PM
And some people want to give up their right to bear arms....

David Dundas
06-04-2007, 6:32 PM
Cliff,

As a Brit, I should perhaps feel guilty for the sins of my ancestors; but we should remember that, in general, ethical standards have evolved a bit since those days in Western nations. Your founding fathers considered slavery perfectly acceptable in the 1700's, as did the British, of course. Nevertheless, even today, it is not unknown for so-called civilized people to slip back into savagery under the stress of war, as the revelations from Abu Ghraib have shown. I just regret, that owing to the obtuseness of the British government, the founding fathers were driven to declare independence.

David

Martin Shupe
06-04-2007, 6:49 PM
Cliff,

As a Brit, I should perhaps feel guilty for the sins of my ancestors; but we should remember that, in general, ethical standards have evolved a bit since those days in Western nations. Your founding fathers considered slavery perfectly acceptable in the 1700's, as did the British, of course. Nevertheless, even today, it is not unknown for so-called civilized people to slip back into savagery under the stress of war, as the revelations from Abu Ghraib have shown. I just regret, that owing to the obtuseness of the British government, the founding fathers were driven to declare independence.

David

The so called "savagery" of Abu Ghraib consisted of fraternity style pranks, blown way out of proportion by the left wing media.:mad:

Compare that to the videos released by the terrorists where they brazenly behead their prisoners. :mad: These prisoners include civilians, US soldiers, and, if I am not mistaken, British citizens and soldiers as well. Make no mistake, the war against Islamic radicals is a war for the very survival of western civilization as we know it. When Iran gets nukes, and they will if someone (US or Israel) does not stop them, then the terrorists will soon have them and an American city will disappear. I fear that day, and its aftermath.

Jeff Shaara wrote two books on the Rev War. "Rise to Rebellion", and "The Glorious Cause". Both are excellent, IMHO.

The founding fathers, and especially George Washington, deserve more credit than they usually get in schools these days.

Cliff Rohrabacher
06-04-2007, 7:12 PM
Truly fitting for your post #1775. Was it planned that way Cliff?

No, but I like the synergy.

Cliff Rohrabacher
06-04-2007, 7:13 PM
Cliff,

As a Brit, I should perhaps feel guilty for the sins of my ancestors;

Not unless you had a hand in them.

David Dundas
06-05-2007, 6:18 AM
And some people want to give up their right to bear arms....

Von,

The price of this right is that in the USA the firearm homicide rate is 3.7 per 100,000, whereas in Australia it is 0.44 per 100,000, and in Britain it is 0.11 per 100,000. So your firearm homicide rate is 8.4 times ours, and 33.6 times that in Britain. For firearm suicide, the rates are USA 7.35, Australia 2.35, and Britain 0.33 per 100,000. Admittedly, given the practical difficulty of drastically reducing the number of firearms owned in the US, it is probably a price that you will continue to have to pay.

David

David

Joe Chritz
06-05-2007, 11:17 AM
This is not the correct forum for discussing something as large, diverse and controversial as why crime rates are the way they are. Perhaps some research before such a blanket statement would be in order. While the stats may be factually correct they don't account for many other factors.

Joe

Don Bergren
06-05-2007, 12:40 PM
Sadly, the version of events posted by Cliff is inaccurate, and is one more example of how well meaning folks like Cliff can be duped by those who wish to spread inaccurate information.

A visit to Snopes.com will let one see the inaccuracies of the above version. And that's a real shame, because the truth itself is great enough for all of us to remember and hold onto forever. The lies don't deserve our attention.

What our fore fathers accomplished was too great for us to allow the truth and real facts to be lost. We need to celebrate the truth and condemn the lies in order to protect our real history as a nation.

The real story is at snopes (http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp).

Chip Olson
06-05-2007, 3:34 PM
The so called "savagery" of Abu Ghraib consisted of fraternity style pranks, blown way out of proportion by the left wing media.:mad: If our so-called "left wing" media had done its job back in 2003 rather than slavishly repeating the lies of the Bush Administration, we wouldn't have gotten into this appalling disaster of a war in the first place.

Compare that to the videos released by the terrorists where they brazenly behead their prisoners. :mad: These prisoners include civilians, US soldiers, and, if I am not mistaken, British citizens and soldiers as well. Make no mistake, the war against Islamic radicals is a war for the very survival of western civilization as we know it. True enough. When we have finally finished dragging ourselves down to their level of brutality and intolerance, the great civilization that the brave Founding Fathers listed above gave their lives and fortunes to bring into being will have finally died.

Martin Shupe
06-05-2007, 7:02 PM
Chip,

We could both argue all day, and not change anyone's mind. The (friendly, I hope) discussion would be better in person, than on a board, where things can be misinterpreted.

Perhaps I shouldn't have started this, but I let my strong feelings on the subject overcome my usual restraint.:rolleyes:

I have many very good woodworking friends here. Many have the same political opinions I do, many have the exact opposite. My best hunting buddy and I argue politics all the time, but we are still best friends.

I will not hold your political position against you if you will offer me the same courtesy.

Now it might be a good idea if we all let this thread die and get back to woodworking.

Chip Olson
06-06-2007, 5:06 PM
Martin;

Agreed on all counts. :-)

Bill Jepson
06-06-2007, 6:31 PM
THE LINE reads "To this cause we pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor." The thing to remember is that these men HAD IT. If we have it Government, of the people, by the people and for the people won't vanish from the earth.
The thing for all to remember is for evil to flourish all good men need do is nothing. We are not perfect, nor are our allies, but the thing to remember is that we don't need fences to keep people IN. Our military and those working with us are the most honorable, and the the most helpful to those liberated in the history of MANKIND. Enough said.
Bill Jepson

Gary Keedwell
06-06-2007, 10:56 PM
[quote=Martin Shupe;596855]The so called "savagery" of Abu Ghraib consisted of fraternity style pranks, blown way out of proportion by the left wing media.:mad:

Compare that to the videos released by the terrorists where they brazenly behead their prisoners. :mad: These prisoners include civilians, US soldiers, and, if I am not mistaken, British citizens and soldiers as well. Make no mistake, the war against Islamic radicals is a war for the very survival of western civilization as we know it. When Iran gets nukes, and they will if someone (US or Israel) does not stop them, then the terrorists will soon have them and an American city will disappear. I fear that day, and its aftermath.

Jeff Shaara wrote two books on the Rev War. "Rise to Rebellion", and "The Glorious Cause". Both are excellent, IMHO.
I'm agree with you 100%.....history...written by impartial historians ..will prove us right. We will be paying for the carelessness of President Bush's predecessor for many years to come. The good people of England have alot of problems...I hope we don't have to bail them out again. They don't seem the grateful lot.
Gary K.