Drawer box help. How do you cut groove for floating bottom?

[Jeff Kerr]

I need a little advice on cutting groves for floating drawer bottoms. I tried this for the first time today and had mixed success.

I am not much of a dado blade guy, (takes to much time to change the saw back and forth). So instead I opted for using my router table.

These drawers have a 1/4" bottom so I used a 1/4" straight cut bit. I set the height to 5/16" and set the fence back 1/2" from the bottom edge of the sides.

I was able to cut 3 sides without issue but on the 4th side the bit broke off.

What am I doing wrong?

How do you do your drawer bottoms?

[Jim Becker]

I've used the table saw as well as the router table with no issues. Breaking a 1/4" cutter can happen, but it may mean too fast of a feed speed/lateral pressure.

[Jim Grill]

When using a router it's usually a good idea to remove small amounts at a time. Start with the bit lower than you really need it and raise it a bit after each pass until your final depth is reached.

A spiral bit can handle more than a normal bit. As a rule, if you have to use a lot of force with a router bit then your taking too much off at once.

[James Phillips]

If you do not want to install a dado blade, just make multiple passes with a rip or crosscut blade.

[Mike Henderson]

Another way to cut them with the router is to use a slot cutter bit. You have to pass the wood along the fence vertically instead of laying it flat like you would with a straight bit but that's not really a problem.

If your slot cutter is not the exact thickness for your bottom, just make two cuts to widen the slot - make the first cut in all your sides, then adjust the height of the cutter to give you the right width slot, and make the second cut on all the sides.

I much prefer a slot cutter for those kinds of cuts than a straight bit.

Mike

[fRED mCnEILL]

They make a slot cutter specifically for this purpose. You dry assemble the drawer and cut the slot with the router(in a table). The beauty is that the slot is continuous all the way around.

[John Hulett]

I was able to cut 3 sides without issue but on the 4th side the bit broke off.

What am I doing wrong?

How do you do your drawer bottoms?

I've experienced the same problem. I chalked it up to using a cheapo bit (from the 25 piece C'man set for $99). I ran down to the local BORG and picked up a Bosch. I'm not necessarily convinced that I won't have the same problem, but I was able to finish the job. Of course, I probably was taking off too much material.

For the bottoms, I find it best to cut a little oversize, then fine tune with subsequent cuts. I've been using a 1/4" MDF with a vinyl coating on one side.

- John

[David Epperson]

They make a slot cutter specifically for this purpose. You dry assemble the drawer and cut the slot with the router(in a table). The beauty is that the slot is continuous all the way around.
??? Wouldn't this leave cutter radius gaps in the slot in the corners?

[David Epperson]

Another way to cut them with the router is to use a slot cutter bit. You have to pass the wood along the fence vertically instead of laying it flat like you would with a straight bit but that's not really a problem.

If your slot cutter is not the exact thickness for your bottom, just make two cuts to widen the slot - make the first cut in all your sides, then adjust the height of the cutter to give you the right width slot, and make the second cut on all the sides.

I much prefer a slot cutter for those kinds of cuts than a straight bit.

Mike
Anyone who wants to try this out "on the cheap" before investing in a good one or set. Harbor Freight has a couple of slot cutter sets - one is a Tongue and Groove set with two different thicknesses cutters (1/8 and 1/4 )
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=42133&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=

and the other set has 7 different thicknesses down to 1/16.
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=93511&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=

[Andrew Williams]

I use the Frank Klausz method. Just use the TS with an ordinary blade. Cut a groove on the front and sides. Then move the fence to make the groove wider. Do the same as before. finally, raise the blade and push the drawer back all the way through with a thin push stick. This gives you perfect alignment between the narrower drawer back and the groove on the other 3 pieces.

[glenn bradley]

Too agressive a cut or too poor a bit. I use the method you describe all the time. I always apply a rule of thumb some wiseman passed on; maximum material removal for routers . . . 3/8" x 3/8". So if I'm running a 1/4" bit, I should have no problem with a 5/16" depth.

Chiming in with what we ALL know to be true; I am finding my cheap bits to be more and more unacceptable as my skills improve and my projects become more involved. Buy good cutters, you and your tools will both be happy.

[Jeff Wright]

I use the Frank Klausz method. Just use the TS with an ordinary blade. Cut a groove on the front and sides. Then move the fence to make the groove wider. Do the same as before. finally, raise the blade and push the drawer back all the way through with a thin push stick. This gives you perfect alignment between the narrower drawer back and the groove on the other 3 pieces.

Doesn't this method leave a groove showing on the front sides of the drawer where the groove in the front runs all the way to the end of the front? Or, is that groove concealed by a subsequent dovetail cut?

[Andrew Williams]

If you use through dovetails it will show on the front, not the sides, but those are only used for drawers where there is an applied front, which covers it. If you use half-blind dovetails, the groove does not show on either the front or the sides, provided that you cut your tails in the right spot.

[Pete Simmons]

I know a guy who makes a lot of draws.

He has an old cheap used table saw set up with 2 or 3 - 8 inch blades (I forget how many ) which give just the right thickness for the bottom material he uses.

His fence is set and he does not move anything.

Works great.

[Justin James]

If there is more than one or two drawers to do, I just use the multiple-passes-on-the-table-saw method, using whatever blade is on the saw. For just one drawer, I'm likely to grab a plow plane.

[Jeff Kerr]

The table saw. :p

After all the great advice here I gave it another go today. Since I had created one prototype drawer box to make sure the sizing is all correct it was time to make another 15 boxes.

I had thought that using my router table was the way to go. but after snappping the bit I tried the tablesaw. It was fantastic. :D

Switching into production mode train of thought made this much easier. I cut all the sides in one pass. Then I set the saw for the groove. Ran all the sides thru, moved the fence and ran them again.

Worked like a champ;). Tomorrow I will cut the bottoms and finish them off.

Thanks for the help!!

[Mike Henderson]

??? Wouldn't this leave cutter radius gaps in the slot in the corners?
I have used this technique (dry assemble and then cut the groove with a slot cutter). It does leave cutter radius "gaps" in the corners which you can address one of two ways. One way is to cut your drawer bottom with rounded corners but I don't like that approach because you can over round and have a gap between the drawer corner and the drawer bottom.

The other approach, which I use, is to just take an appropriate sized chisel and square the corners.

This technique can only be used when you're going to full "capture" the bottom. If you're going to slide the bottom in from the back, this won't work. In that case, you'll have to make a second cut, after you disassemble the drawer, and continue the slot out the back of the sides (and, of course, cut the drawer back so it doesn't protude below the slot.)

There's a couple of advantages to the technique. One is that the slot is lined up. Sometimes when you cut the slots separately you find that the slots don't line up perfectly when you assemble the drawer and you're left with an unslightly space on one side of the drawer bottom (and you may have trouble getting the bottom to fit into all four sides).

The second advantage is when you do dovetails, the slots don't show so you don't have to plan your pin and tail layout so carefully to avoid having the slot show - just make your dovetails and then use this technique for cutting your slots. Good way to save your project when you find that your dovetail layout is wrong.

Mike

[Joe Chritz]

I use the method Andrew mentions and it works great.

Just built 11 drawers for a Cab job yesterday using that method. I assemble the front and back to one side than the last side. Bump the box square if needed, flip over and brad the bottom to the back.

I very rarely build boxed with anything but half blind dovetails so I bury the groove in the first pin and it is hidden.

When I did my shop drawers I used some 1/4" melamine I had for bottoms so I could make one pass with a dado but even handling 40-50 drawer pieces it only adds a couple minutes doing two passes.

Joe

[Jeff Kerr]

Thanks again for all the tips.

I built the cabinets a while back but never found the time to get the drawers done. This weekend was perfect for getting back into the shop.

I would have loved to used dovetails on these, but I was having a little difficulty in mastering the jig.

It looks like I am the king of pocket screws for now. :D

65466 65467 65468

Now for some pulls and fronts and I can call this done. This will be nice to store my stuff.