Danish oil food safety?

[Patrick Taylor]

First, I don't want to use nut oils due to allergies in the family.

I use danish oil on pieces for "looking at." If I make a functional bowl, finish with danish oil, and buff but DON'T wax, is it food safe?

I'm an engineer, not a chemist! ;)

Thanks,
Pat

[Don Orr]

Patrick,

Most current thinking regarding finishes and food safety is that a finish that cures, especially by polymerization like Danish oil, is food safe when COMPLETELY cured. This can take days, even weeks depending on the oil it is based on. These types of finishes become bonded to the wood and themselves and become essentially inert. I am not a chemist or FDA expert, but this information comes from those in the know with much more experience than I.

(Usual disclaimer-use your own best judgement and common sense. I accept no responsibility for use or misuse of the above information. It's the American way don't you know;) .)

There is another finishing technique that has been used for much longer than any of the applied penetrating or film finishes and is almost guaranteed to be food safe. That is no finish at all. Just leave the wood bare, and clean and dry it when done using it. Been done that way for centuries.

[Lance Sleeper]

Danish is fine as long as it is well cured. I make cutting boards and use Danish exclusively (Watco). I let them sit for 30 days prior to using them. The bowl should be fine with the proper curing time. Dad has done the same thing with salad bowls for years.

[Patrick Taylor]

Patrick,
...There is another finishing technique that has been used for much longer than any of the applied penetrating or film finishes and is almost guaranteed to be food safe. That is no finish at all. Just leave the wood bare, and clean and dry it when done using it. Been done that way for centuries.

Does one then have to worry about food particles penetrating the porous wood surface?

[Darcy Schaffer]

When I started turning I was concerned about this as well. I researched and found conflicting reports about Watco and other danish oils which is what I wanted to use at the time.

I finally decided to use the "Tried & True" wood finishes since they state they are food safe.

I've been using a combination of danish/varnish oils made by Tried and True and salad bowl wax for some years now and have been happy with the results.

Darcy

[Don Orr]

Open grain woods like Oak, Ash, Locust may not make the best food containers like salad bowls because of the point you make. Tighter grained woods like maple,cherry, beech, sycamore seem to be more common and easier to clean.

There was a study some years ago when plastic cutting boards were all the rage that showed wood cutting boards actually held almost no bacteria where the plastic ones were loaded with them. I think someone put up a link to it recently.

[Jamie Donaldson]

..mineral oil. It never hardens, doesn't require any maintenance, and is easy to repair without removing old finish. Best place to buy for the best price is from the nearest large animalveterinarian- I pay about $12 per gallon here in horse country.

[Mike Vickery]

When I started turning I was concerned about this as well. I researched and found conflicting reports about Watco and other danish oils which is what I wanted to use at the time.

I finally decided to use the "Tried & True" wood finishes since they state they are food safe.

I've been using a combination of danish/varnish oils made by Tried and True and salad bowl wax for some years now and have been happy with the results.

Darcy

I am with Darcy on this. For anything that would be used with food I use tried and true original formula. It is a mixture of BLO and beeswax and gives a beautiful low luster finish. Supposedly you can drink it right from the can and get nothing worse then a tummy ache (I am not recomening you do this). Personally I would not even consider a finish that was not listed as food safe or made specifically for use with food, why take the chance.

[Patrick Taylor]

..mineral oil. It never hardens, doesn't require any maintenance, and is easy to repair without removing old finish. Best place to buy for the best price is from the nearest large animalveterinarian- I pay about $12 per gallon here in horse country.

I gather that mineral oil does not dry to form a hard surface. Does it ever feel greasy or tacky?

[Jonathon Spafford]

I've heard both... I've heard if you are going to use a finish that isn't labeled "food safe" than let it cure for at least a month (just to be safe) at which time pretty much any oil becomes "food safe".

Something to think about is those wooden salad bowls or other wooden kitchen-ware that you buy at a store - you have know idea what finish they put on them. I've a feeling it is probably not canola oil, but we kinda trust them because they are for putting food in. So I probably wouldn't get too worried about what finish I used as long as you let it cure for a month or so you should be fine! I would steer away from the nut oils, for the reasons you mentioned, if you are going to be selling your stuff!

[ROBERT ELLIS]

One of Woodwork magazine's latest issues has about a 5 page article on wood finishes from expert Bob Flexner. I've been wworking for years and learned several things from his article. For example, one thing I learned, is I had been buying salad bowl finish for my cutting boards. He pointed out in his article that I can make the same product using only mineral spirits and varnish, and walla I have a wipe on finish. He's one person that will tell you that "all" finishes are food safe, and even tells you why, etc. Easy to read and lots of info that most people, including myself, wasn't aware of. If anyone is looking for an easy, informative, and a quick reference to wood finishes, I definately would recommend that issue of Woodwork mag.

Robert

[Dan Gill]

Patrick, in my experience mineral oil won't be tacky or sticky after you wipe off the excess. It does have to be re-applied periodically.

[Patrick Taylor]

So do those that use mineral oil just apply it and tell the recipient to add more from time to time?

Since mineral oil doesn't dry, you would not buff after application I assume. Has anyone tried buffing before mineral oil? Does it do any good, or is it a waste of time for a utility bowl and I should just sand and apply the mineral oil and be done with it?

Thanks everyone.

[Ed Frie]

Mr Raffan has a bowl making video I saw yesterday. He finished it with generous amounts of mineral oil and then bees wax melted in, which can be buffed. It looked great on the video.

[Patrick Taylor]

I sanded a cherry bowl last night that is intended for food, and I simply applied generous amounts of mineral oil until it wouldn't absorb any more. It looks great! Very utilitarian, with an antique "use me" look. I like it.

My question now, is that this morning I can still get some oil residue on my hands when I hold the bowl, despite repeated wiping with clean paper towels. How long will that last? Since mineral oil does not dry, will it ever stop?

Thanks.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Patrick - have used mineral oil only on cutting boards and wooden spatulas before and if I remember correctly the procedure was to coat the item until saturated, wipe off excess and then let dry for 30 days before use. I remember wiping things down a number of times the first few days. It does eventually 'dry' out to the touch.

[Patrick Taylor]

Patrick - have used mineral oil only on cutting boards and wooden spatulas before and if I remember correctly the procedure was to coat the item until saturated, wipe off excess and then let dry for 30 days before use. I remember wiping things down a number of times the first few days. It does eventually 'dry' out to the touch.

Perfect! Thanks, Steve. For some reason I had the hardest time finding that bit of information anywhere. :confused:

[Dave Carey]

I just saw a post on another board re this same issue. The poster claimed anything BUT mineral oil was pretty much acceptable. Apparently some experiments dumping bacteria on wood showed that the wood didn't support the growth of the bacteria except when it was coated with mineral oil.

When making cutting boards I finished them with Behlen's salad bowl finish (I think that's spelled correctly but I won't swear to it.) Anyway, it's made to be food safe, can be washed and dried after use and recoated when necessary.

Send me a PM if you want and I'll tell you where I saw the other post. Cheers

[Don Orr]

...is funny stuff. When you saturate a piece of wood as you have, it will weep out for quite a while. To get some of it off the surface, try washing it with MILD soap and warm water and towelling it dry right away. The good thing about mineral oil is it is easily replenished by the owner, just like a cutting board. You can get it cheap in drug stores. It's used as a laxative:eek: .


I also found the article from the University of Alaksa about wood vs plastic cutting boards.

http//www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF11/1121B.html

[Patrick Taylor]

I just saw a post on another board re this same issue. The poster claimed anything BUT mineral oil was pretty much acceptable. Apparently some experiments dumping bacteria on wood showed that the wood didn't support the growth of the bacteria except when it was coated with mineral oil.

When making cutting boards I finished them with Behlen's salad bowl finish (I think that's spelled correctly but I won't swear to it.) Anyway, it's made to be food safe, can be washed and dried after use and recoated when necessary.

Send me a PM if you want and I'll tell you where I saw the other post. Cheers

I saw the post that you're speaking of. I believe I can post a link to this article (http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF11/1121B.html) describing the study. [edit: Don beat me to it!]

They say that the bacteria inexplicably "disappeared" from the wood surface (perhaps they crawled inside? :eek: ) and that sealing the wood with mineral oil meant that more of the "placed" bacteria were "recovered" in a manner that you would expect from a sealed surface like plastic. It sounds to me like you'd get the same pore-sealing effect from any oil, and most other finishes too.

Based on what I read, IMHO It seems inaccurate to say that mineral oil caused problems or is unsafe, just that it negates the unexplained natural resistance of wood to bacteria by sealing the pores. If that's all, then I'm not too worried about mineral oil since we are all using and washing non-porous food surfaces every day. AND the same effect would seem to occur for any finish, oil or otherwise.

[Jim Becker]

As stated several times, all finishes sold to day are "food safe" (there really isn't such a designation...) when fully cured
Tried and True's products, while I love them personally, only have an "advantage", as it were, when the product isn't yet cured. Once cured, it's the same as all the others in this respect. Their claims are from the marketing department, not science
Mineral oil doesn't cure, but it doesn't go rancid like vegetable based oils will and is renewable. I makes for an attractive, easy to clean surface with out a film that can be damaged via cutting...which is why it's so popular (almost a defacto standard) for finishing cutting boards and salad items

[Patrick Taylor]

Thanks everyone for your input. I was feeling overwhelmed by all the finishing options, and really wanted to know what other people had settled on after trying different methods. I feel like I have a few simple methods now that I understand and feel like I know when each is appropriate.

Thanks again.