What to do with turning blanks?????

[Phillip H Smith]

I know, I know....DUMB question! Obviously, you turn 'em....http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

But...I recently purchased two dozen small blanks (mostly 4" X 2 or 3") to use as practice in learning to turn bowls. The blanks are cherry, walnut, and sassafras.

Since I'm new to this, I have several questions:

1. The blanks are well-coated with a waxy material (I'm guessing PEG). Should I remove this before turning? If so, what's the best solvent to use?

2. Presuming these blanks are still "wet," should I re-coat them with Anchorseal (or something similar) after turning? Or...does PEG (?) penetrate far enough that I won't have to re-seal?

3. Or...given their smallish size, should I try another drying method, such as DNA or microwave? Or..is air drying sufficient? Obviously, I'd want them to be dry before applying a finish.

4. Since I don't have a moisture meter, does anyone have experience with the one sold by Harbor Freight? It's not very pricey...and it may work OK. I just want to feed the Vortex properly, ya know....but keep a few $$s for other things!

Thanks in advance for any advice. With the long weekend ahead, I want to get started turning....and avoiding my other domestic responsibilities to boot (mowing lawn, planting stuff, painting...the typical "honeydew list").

[Dennis Peacock]

I'll take a stab at this for ya:

1. The blanks are well-coated with a waxy material (I'm guessing PEG). Should I remove this before turning? If so, what's the best solvent to use?
Nope- That's what the lathe and turning tools are for. (at least that's how I do it.)

2. Presuming these blanks are still "wet," should I re-coat them with Anchorseal (or something similar) after turning? Or...does PEG (?) penetrate far enough that I won't have to re-seal?
Assuming they aren't very large roughed out bowls, leave the bowl walls about 1/2" thick for small bowls (10" and under), get you a 1 gallon ice cream bucket (translated - eat ice cream first :p ), purchase you a 1 gallon can of Denatured Alcohol and pour that into the 1 gallon ice cream bucket AFTER you have roughed out a bowl and put the roughed out bowl into the bucket...then immediately pour the DNA over the bowl, into the bucket until the DNA just covers the bowl. Cover the bucket with a good tight fitting lid and let set over night or until you get back to the shop. Follow the rest of the steps in the article I submitted in the Articles section of SMC on Bowl Blank Preparation). This should take you about 1 month from start to a finished bowl, ready for sale. :)

3. Or...given their smallish size, should I try another drying method, such as DNA or microwave? Or..is air drying sufficient? Obviously, I'd want them to be dry before applying a finish.
Take another one of your roughed out bowls, take some anchorseal and coat only the endgrain of the roughed out bowl...inside and out to include the rim. Let this dry good and then store this one on a shelf where it can air dry for about 6 months.

4. Since I don't have a moisture meter, does anyone have experience with the one sold by Harbor Freight? It's not very pricey...and it may work OK. I just want to feed the Vortex properly, ya know....but keep a few $$s for other things!
Don't worry about getting a moisture meter. Roughed out bowls soaked in DNA should set to dry for about 21 days or so. Air drying will depend on how thick the bowl walls are as well as consistant wall thickness which will help in saving your bowl in the drying process. Some people weigh them, some check them with a meter, and many don't do anything but turn, finish and enjoy. :D

All that said....do an experiment for your part of the country. Rough turn one and just set it upside down where air can circulate around it but not in a breeze..should be still air, and see how this does as well.

I took a maple bowl, soaked in DNA, wrapped, and dried for a nice bowl. BUT, I also experimented with taking a rough-turned bowl from the same exact log and just set it on the drying rack. It moved more, but still did fine. Of course I have a lot of humidity here, so things have a tendency to dry slower. ;)

Hope I haven't confused you, but wanted to pass a long an idea or two.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Dennis said it all. The clear waxy substance on the blank is probably anchorseal or greenwood seal. I don't think it is PEG. I bought a lot of wood and never ran across any with PEG. By the way I use the DNA method and haven't lost a bowl. I have soaked overnight to (I forgot about the bowl blank in the DNA) 4 days with no problems. Give it a go as Dennis said.

[George Van]

Phillip, because I have lots of time and already dry blanks I Anchorseal and wait on most blanks after roughing. I have a Wagner moisture meter for lumber off the sawmill and checking before cabinet making or items where later shrinkage and movement are critical. I however weigh my bowl blanks occasionally and when they stop loosing weight or fluctuate I know they are as dry as they are going to get in the present relative humidity. If I want them drier I must artificially put them in a drying cabinet (old refer with light bulb) with a lower humidity.

[Jim King]

I am a boiler and have had good luck. Try reading this http://www.exoticwoodworld.com/index.php?c=static&sc=process

[Joe Melton]

I have two identical moisture meters from Harbor Freight, the yellow ones that sell for about $30. They work. That is, they give you a reading. I recently measured a blank and got 22% with one meter and 26% with the other, measuring in the same location. I was satisfied that the blank was not dry.
Confucious says "A man with two watches never knows what time it is." I suppose something similar could be said about Harbor Freight moisture meters.
On the other hand, they may work as well as more expensive ones.
Joe

[Reed Gray]

Your blanks probably have some moisture in them. I would put them on the lathe, and turn the outside, (no need to remove the wax, just turn it off), then feel the wood. If it feels cool, then it has some moisture. Also you get more dust when turning dry wood than you do when turning wet wood. You can leave the bowls thick, as others suggested, and dry them, and then return later, or turn then thinner (1/4 to 1/2 inch), let them dry and warp, then sand and finish (I like the warped shapes). As far as drying, the rule is if you are drying too fast, then they will crack. If you are drying too slow, then they mold. Air drying works fine, depending on local relative humidity. If it is dry, this is when you put them in bags to create a micro environment. If it is more humid, like where I am, I start them out on the shop floor for a week, then up on to a wire shelf to finish. They are dry when they no longer feel cool to the touch (never had a moisture meter, never will). I am not a fan of the DNA soaking. With the thinner bowls that I turn, it along with the LDD soaking makes no measurable difference in drying rates, warping, or cracking (I did a test of several bowls of the same size, and wood and measured and weighed each until they were dry). It may make a difference with thicker bowls. I do use the LDD method (liquid dishwashing detergent). The biggest difference it makes is the soap soaked bowls are a lot easier to sand out. The warped bowls are hard to sand out if you don't have a power sander, and a variable speed lathe.
robo hippy

[Patrick Taylor]

I DNA a few, but often turn to thickness of 3/4 to 1", and stick them on the shelf in the garage. It's a bit more humid than inside, so they dry on their own without going too fast (and cracking). I never wrap, it's not necessary for me and therefore a waste (for me).

I like the simple approach of turn and stick it on the shelf, then later on turn again. Obviously you'll get 100 different answers, but everyone finds their own way.

[Jonathon Spafford]

Where did you get them?? If you got them from a place like Penn State or CSUSA I would assume that they would be dry!

[Phillip H Smith]

These are all GREAT suggestions and I THANK everyone for contributing to my turning education.

Since I have quite a few blocks to "play with." I'll try each of these different methods to see how they work in my shop.

Don't let me end the thread here....if there's more info to be had, please pass it along.

BTW...the blocks were purchased on an Ebay auction and came from a seller in Virginia. I'm presuming the wood was sealed shortly after the trees were felled. So, I suspect that they are still (at least partially) wet.

[Mike A. Smith]

I haven't been around long, but I've been here long enough to know that any question about bowl prep and drying is good for a really long thread.

:o I am still really new to the game, so I'd like to extend the conversation by asking a related dumb question. If you turn wet wood to a reasonably thin-walled final shape and then sand and finsh in the same session, what will happen to the bowl? One would think that the finish would slow down or stop any further drying. Since I have heard no one suggest this I assume it would be something bad. Like on the order of warp, crack, combust, explode, etc...

[Patrick Taylor]

I haven't been around long, but I've been here long enough to know that any question about bowl prep and drying is good for a really long thread.

:o I am still really new to the game, so I'd like to extend the conversation by asking a related dumb question. If you turn wet wood to a reasonably thin-walled final shape and then sand and finsh in the same session, what will happen to the bowl? One would think that the finish would slow down or stop any further drying. Since I have heard no one suggest this I assume it would be something bad. Like on the order of warp, crack, combust, explode, etc...

I'm not authority on this, but I'm pretty sure that the wood will continue to dry and move regardless. Different finishes will have different slowing effects on drying time, as will environment, etc. To avoid cracking, generally speaking, thinner is less likely to crack than thicker, uniform thickness is less likely to crack than varying thickness, slower drying is less likely to crack than fast drying, and the list goes on.

[Frank Howell]

This is great info for bowls and I do plan on turning some from the same kinds of blanks, but I'd like to take this a step further if I may.

I currently have some similar blanks that are for turning finials and bottle stoppers. They measure about 2" square by about 4" long and covered with the same stuf.

If turning a solid form like a stopper, would I still need to rough turn it, dry it with DNA and then air dry for a while, or could I just go ahead and turn to finial dimentions and either air dry or DNA/air dry?

So far, I've only turned kiln dried stock, so any info on this is greatly appreciated.

[Patrick Taylor]

I currently have some similar blanks that are for turning finials and bottle stoppers. They measure about 2" square by about 4" long and covered with the same stuf.

If turning a solid form like a stopper, would I still need to rough turn it, dry it with DNA and then air dry for a while, or could I just go ahead and turn to finial dimentions and either air dry or DNA/air dry?

I've gotten 2x2 end-grain blanks from ebay for spindle work, and they all come dry, but coated in wax. You blanks may already be dry....

[Reed Gray]

The bowls will still move, and yes, the finishing will slow the process down. The down side is sanding wet wood. It really clogs up the paper fast. The rubber cleaner sticks help clean them up, but it is a real hastle.
robo hippy

[Dennis Peacock]

I haven't been around long, but I've been here long enough to know that any question about bowl prep and drying is good for a really long thread.

:o I am still really new to the game, so I'd like to extend the conversation by asking a related dumb question. If you turn wet wood to a reasonably thin-walled final shape and then sand and finsh in the same session, what will happen to the bowl? One would think that the finish would slow down or stop any further drying. Since I have heard no one suggest this I assume it would be something bad. Like on the order of warp, crack, combust, explode, etc...

Mike,

The key to keeping the bowl all in one piece is to have the walls and bottom of the bowl the same thickness so that the drying process (even with a finish on it) will be equal on all surfaces as best as can be.

Shoot, you're in Alabama, I grew up and worked there most of my life, there's plenty of free wood to get. Grab some up, turn it and experiment. It's not only a good learning experience, but it's a lot of fun turning green wood. :D

[Patrick Taylor]

The bowls will still move, and yes, the finishing will slow the process down. The down side is sanding wet wood. It really clogs up the paper fast. The rubber cleaner sticks help clean them up, but it is a real hastle.
robo hippy

What are these sticks?

[Frank Howell]

What are these sticks?

It's a block of a light colored rubber material that is attached to a flat stick. You can rub these on the sander, or just run the sander on the block to clean the sandpaper. For a ROS, there is something called a Sander Sitter, that you can set the ROS in as it's running down and it has a pad of that same rubber in the bottom so it cleans the sandpaper each time you put it down.

I've found both the blocks and the sitter at Rockler's and Woodcraft and Woodworkers Supply. I'd lay money that Klingspore carries them too.

[Chas Jones]

Phillip, if the Cherry is wet (green) then be prepared for it to shrink across the grain and be out of round by as much as 1/4" in your 4" blank when it's dried.

Just to prove Green Wood will move no matter how thin you turn it, may not split but it sure has a way of expressing itself.

Before:

http://quest42.co.uk/woodwork/turnings/DSC01284.JPG

Just a matter of how much. :)

After:

http://quest42.co.uk/woodwork/turnings/DSC01322.JPG

[Jamie Donaldson]

... species works and dries differently. I don't turn dripping/ slinging wet wood, but prefer to season it in the largest possible chunks until it is only damp, another relative term? I have never needed to "twice turn" projects, and some items like hollow vessels are most often turned to conclusion by necessity to reduce movement. Then many of my finished pieces are put into a Polish kiln(brown paper bag!) and stored in the shop for a week or more- seldom do they move, and almost never check. The bags reduce excess air movement near the wood surface, and allow slow moisture loss at a controlled rate which curtails any movement or checking. Cheap(phrugal!) and effective!

[Mike A. Smith]

Shoot, you're in Alabama, I grew up and worked there most of my life, there's plenty of free wood to get. Grab some up, turn it and experiment. It's not only a good learning experience, but it's a lot of fun turning green wood. :D

Yep, south Alabama. I just started and it looks like I'll have an endless supply, I have lots of contacts in the tree trimming business. I'm probably not going to have the same severity of problems that some in other parts of the country have, one thing we have plenty of here is moisture in the air. So I'll be doing lots of experimenting, maybe even come up with something worth sharing.

Thanks for all the help!