Patching a Transtional planes mouth?

[Dominic Greco]

Yeah, it's me again. Like I said in my previous post, I was cleaning out my hand tool cabinet and came across some more "project" planes.

They are a Stanley #26 jointer and a #23 coffin smoother. Both are transitional planes and both look to be in fine shape over all. But I was toying with the idea of adding a patch to close up the mouth. I have some nice pieces of pear or apple that would work perfectly. Or if I'm feeling brave, hickory or Osage (they'd NEVER wear out!). However, I'm not sure if these planes even need to have their mouths "closed".

I was about to flatten the bases. And I reasoned this process would open the mouth up slightly (depending on how much I took off). From my initial inspection, the bases don't appear too far out. It will only take a small bit to flatten them up.

I guess my question is; how do you determine if the mouth is too wide?

Thanks in advance,

[Chuck Hamman]

Dominic,
It looks like nobody wants to tackle your problem. Well I’m not the absolute expert on the subject, but I know a few things, or at least I think do.
Regarding your smoother, and I’m assuming that you want it to perform as a smoothing plane, I’d say it is a safe bet that the mouth, as it is, is too wide. I have a #24 transitional with a mouth opening of about 1/8”. As a smoother it doesn’t work very well. My best (and only) smoothers are a Stanley #4 (1/32”) and my homemade woodie (light just passes through the opening). So I would say you would want to shoot for something in that neighborhood. Theoretically, the more precise you want the plane to be, the closer the leading edge of the mouth should be to the edge of the blade.

Now, having said that, one time, just for fun I took two of my block planes with adjustable mouths and leaving the blade setting alone, I was able to get the same shavings when the mouth was set wide open as I could when it was tight. But that could be due to the lower bed angle of the BP’s.

Another thing to consider is the current condition of the leading edge of the mouth. Some of those old woodies & transitionals can get beat up pretty bad in that area. If the mouth is in good shape –not chipped or cracked- and it is parallel to the blade, and it is already pretty tight, then just try shimming under the blade to move it forward. You can do this with a couple of strips of masking tape laid across the bed from cheek to cheek. This is a trick that James Krenov himself uses. There is a limit to how many strips you can use; I tried it on my #24, but it didn’t make any noticeable difference.

Regarding the jointer, you would want a wider mouth opening, but not as wide as you might think. The jointer has to be able to hog off material if you’re edge jointing rough cut boards, but it also has to be able to leave a surface suitable for gluing. If it were me, I would shoot for 1/16” to start and if that was too tight, open it up a little. It’s best to set it tight by whatever means and open it up if necessary. On the woodies it’s always easier to open them up than it is to close them up.

You should pick up a copy of “Making & Mastering Wood Planes” by David Finck. Lots of good stuff about planes in general.

Good luck,
-Chuck

[Dominic Greco]

Chuck,
Thanks for replying. I knew someone was bound to help me out.:D


...So I would say you would want to shoot for something in that neighborhood. Theoretically, the more precise you want the plane to be, the closer the leading edge of the mouth should be to the edge of the blade.....Another thing to consider is the current condition of the leading edge of the mouth. Some of those old woodies & transitionals can get beat up pretty bad in that area.

I'm looking at the #26 now and have found that the leading edge of the mouth is pretty banged up. I happened to have a caliper handy and have measured the mouth opening at 0.205"

The leading edge of the #23 coffin smoother is in better shape, but the width of the mouth is 0.215".

Therefore, I'm pretty sure I'm going to patch both of them


You should pick up a copy of “Making & Mastering Wood Planes” by David Finck. Lots of good stuff about planes in general.

I've got a copy of that book already and have been re-reading the relevant sections. Every time I pick that book up I get the overwhelming desire to make my own hand planes!:D

[Andrew Williams]

I left my transitional jointer wide open for use as a roughing hog.

[Jim DeLaney]

I posted this on the 'other' forum a few days ago, but I guess it bears repeating here...

Since the sole(s) have undoubtedly worn down, and may have even been planed smooth (again) by a previous owner, your plans may be significantly shorter than they started out. This also causes the mouth to get wider.

Consider adding a new sole plate. Make it out of something hard and durable. Goncalo alves, lignum vitae, even hard maple or cherry all work very well. Just use your jointer (I mean your #7 or #8, not the power one, but I suppose it'd work, too.) to get the sole clean and flat, then glue on the new sole and cut the mouth through it. You end up with a plane that's actually better than new.

I have an old #35 that had had a full 3/8" taken off it before I got it. I put a goncalo alves sole on it, and it became one of my favorite users

[Dominic Greco]

Jim,
Thanks for the response! I appreciate the feedback. You're comment couldn't have come at a better time.

Since I replied to Chuck's post I had a chance to examine the sole of the #26 in more detail. I noticed that the leading edge of the sole is pretty banged up. It is not as if a huge chunk was missing. It's just that I can tell that this plane was really used.

If I did indeed do as you have suggested and just add a (maybe 3/16") overlay onto the existing (flattened) sole, I could eliminate this defect. I do have some nice 4 year old, air dried pear that would work perfectly.:D

Thanks again.

[Mike Henderson]

If you decide to patch the mouth instead doing a full re-sole, here are some pictures of one way to do it. It's a full woody but the concept is the same.

Mike