Outdoor Table Feedback

[Joe Wood]

hi folks!

I'm usually designing and building decks, not furniture, and I'd like some feedback on this outdoor table design. It's going to be outside up in the Rocky Mtns. near Denver, so it'll see extreme weather conditions.

I've designed it with weather in mind, for instance instead of thru mortises (which can trap water) I plan on using pocket mortises.

My biggest concern though is wood movement, especially the 3- 10" wide and 10' long top boards. I'll be using kiln dried old growth vertical grain WR cedar http://woodsshop.com/WesternRedCedarDetails.htm

Do you think I could just screw/plug them down to those 4 cletes I show in this model, or will that create problems with the wood movement? I was kicking around ideas to screw up from underneath, using a wide headed screw, and somehow placing it so that it would slide as the wood moved, but that would make for a not so strong connection.

I was also thinking about screwing down the outer edge of the two outer boards, then using some type of concealed deck type fastener (slotted into the board's sides) to secure the middle board.

Sorry, I live and work in the San Diego area and aren't used to dealing with these type weather conditions! Appreciate any feedback on this.

Oh, and my client asked if I'd warranty this, and I said that I really couldn't because of the extreme weather conditions, but that I would warranty my Workmanship. I've never had to Warranty my Workmanship. What type of phrasing would you use for a Warranty like this?

aw heck, the skp is too big to post here. Here's a link to Yousendit.com where hopefully you'll be able to go get it.
http://download.yousendit.com/22B10C5B7436CF3D

[John Schreiber]

I'm afraid I'm no help for how to design to deal with weather conditions in the rockies, but I really like the look of the table. The straight top on the long stretcher combined with the straight bottom on the short stretchers really grabs my attention.

Even though I have no experience, I'll put in my two cents about construction. The forces on those 10" boards exposed to the weather and often soaking wet on one side are going to be pretty strong. I would think you would need to increase the size of the battens and screw up into the table top from the bottom with some aggressive screws in slotted holes. If that cedar is like cedar I get around here, it won't hold screws well at all. You might consider gluing in some alternate wood to take the screws.

Hope you get to build it. Should look great.

[Joe Wood]

Oh, that's a very good suggestion about inlaying another type of wood John! I could even use another wood for the battens/cletes, like ipe .. great idea.

I've been looking all around for a good screw :-) and found these Round Washer Combo screws at McFeelys
http://www.mcfeelys.com/subcat.asp?sort=&kw=&sid=663&clearance=&page=2

[Paul Chinetti]

I'm pretty new to SMC and definately don't have 1/8th of the knowledge of everyone on here, but that looks really good, and will make a great outside table for barbecues imagine the buffett line on that thing!

A little question how strong will the middle of the table be with such a long span in between the legs? I made a picnic table recently granted it wasn't the same design, but I had to compromise and put a third leg in the middle because there was to much give.

[Ben Grunow]

How about some rustic looking through bolts to hold it all. They would go with the location (maybe not with the design). Maybe stainless steel would match the design and hold it all tight and allow for some movement with slotted holes below.

Just a thought.

[Joe Wood]

Paul, it should be strong enough since I have two stretchers under the table top, you can see them in this 3D .pdf which you can zoom on and rotate.

Appreciate the advice fellas! I still don't see how putting the screws into slots (to allow the wood to move) would work because of all the friction (soft wood), especially as the wood expands a bit, so I've decided to just screw the top boards down like I do my decks, and hope for the best. This is some pretty stable stock, and maybe, if the clients keep it well sealed (Penofin), well, I'm hoping for the best.

Thanks again!
EDIT: heck, the pdf is too big to post here, so here it is at yousendit.com if you'd like to check it out.
http://download.yousendit.com/6B3EA5D473F78D54

[Paul Chinetti]

Ok I see now. I like this table a lot. I can't wait to see pictures of the finished piece.