LTT laser engraver from Taiwan

[Alan Case]

Hi. Has anyone here had any experience with the LTT range of laser engravers out of Taiwan?
Regards Alan

[Kevin Huffman]

Yes, I have worked with them alot.
They are also known as our Accuris Laser Engravers.
What questions you got?

[Alan Case]

Hi. Thanks for replying.
We have been looking at different laser engravers for about 6 months now. We are an electrical switchboard manufacturer / electrical contracting company who uses a lot of engraved labels. (the 2 layer plastic type) We are at present using a rotary engraver but it is slow and I think about to die from overuse. Therefore 99% of our work will be this style of label.
At present looking at several units, a 30w LTT and a 40w GCC.
I tend to the GCC due to the servo drives and the ability to drag the engraving head to any position whereas the LTT is a stepper drive. Without starting a huge online fight over stepper / servo issues what would you recommend. I may also be able to drop to a 25w GCC unit; what are your thoughts on the power of this unit for what we want.

We have been quoted approx $15K US for the 25w unit and $19K US for the 40w unit (with honeycomb table). The GCC is sold and supported by a dealer network here in Australia.

The LTT model is
Model: ILS-3NM-30W Carrying 30W air-cooled laser
Price: US$15,500/unit FOB TAIWAN
Working area: 660x495mm
Including: ILS-3NM laser machine, Driver, Operation manual, Red beam pointer, Auto focus

There are no agents in Australia for the LTT so it would be a direct import for us from Taiwan.

I am in the states in 3 weeks time so the other option is to buy there and ship it back home.

Once again I thank you for your help

Regards Alan

[Dave Jones]

One thing to consider before buyinga laser. Buy some laserable plastic in the color combination you plan to use the most and take a real graphic file that is like what you plan to use and go visit the laser dealers and try it out on a laser with THE SAME amount of power as you plan to buy.

Most people are surprised at how slow a laser can be with that 2 color plastic in a production environment. To go fast you may need a lot more power.

[Rodne Gold]

Be careful , a lot of the laserable material is no where as durable as some of the rotary engraveable material used for switchboards.(especially the stuff with the thick cap)

I can think of much cheaper ways to do what you want other than a laser. I would rather buy a few more cheap rotaries , the cheapest Roland engraver , egx 20 will do what you want with ease , I think it's like $2500 or so. You could get 3 and have change to buy a hot Holden ute
:)
I'm sure for $2500 money you could get some 2nd hand computerised models that are a little better even?
http://www.rolanddga.com/asd/products/engravers/EGX20/default.asp?menu=OVERVIEW&nxt=1
I think a laser is a waste of a resource for this job , this is very basic stuff.

[Alan Case]

Hi. Thanks for the replies.
We are finding the rotaries are too slow.
The $2500 units only have a small engraving area so we have to keep swapping material and making up multiple label designs. We also seem to waste a lot of material at the edges of the sheet. The larger the sheet the less wastage we will have.

To get to a decent size of engraving area we are looking at about $12000 US for a rotary. This is not a great lot less than a laser which gives us more options.
I do take the point of the power required for the 2 layer plastic.
What has been the experience of the members here with the power requirements for this product.

We have a busy time in the next 2 months. We will require approx 15000 labels. (0.5" x 2" average size)

Regards Alan Case

[Rodne Gold]

If you are determined to go laser , a GCC 25-30w Spirit will do just fine. There are other issues you have to consider in that laser engraving will stain the engraving surface due to smoke and melt damage and your edges will be straight and not beveled and somewhat sticky. You will also have to factor in tube and component replacement if you use the laser in a heavy duty cycle. Add to that continual cleaning of the optics and motion system and having to have an operator present when cutting (fire risk) In addition , you will find that laserable substrates are a lot more expensive than rotary type stock and you cant effectively use just any old substrate on the laser.
We have 6 lasers on site and wouldnt do this type job on them.
For your type work we use 3 x ISEL stepper motor tables , 1m x 500mm , using a 900w Kress spindle.
Our oldest of these is over 20 years and is still going (we picked up our last one for under AUS $ 3000) We load large sheets , engrave and cut unattended. You will find lasers slower than rotaries cos of the fact you cant do a character as a single line type font and you cant get the depth without putting a lot of heat into the material.

HOWEVER the addition of a laser could transform your business if you use it creatively , i dont think doing labels all day long will do much in this regard.
We also have another process to do these , extremely fast and very cheap. We have a Roland Soljet print and cut machine that can print on clear or white vinyl (in full colour) and then we can laminate this with a clear overlam and reload in the machine which automatically reads registration marks and die cuts the labels (any shape you like). This decal is incredibly durable and can be applied to a cheap substrate like ABS.
The cost to print and lam a sq meter is like aus $20 at worst , it takes about an hour to print and cut and you can get about 1500 lables in a sq meter.
You obviously need to cut the backing substrate to size (guillotine) and apply the decal (laborious but quick)
You would need a print and cut machine like a Roland SP300 and a small laminator.
In terms of a laser purchase , the most important factors are warrantee and backup/service.
The supplier must assure you you wont be down longer than a day or 2 , their tech guy must be near you and the warantee must be at least 18 months bumper to bumper - longer than that is a bonus.
Bank on getting 2-3 yrs max life out the laser in a heavy duty application before upgrading.
I have had a lot of experience in this field , and my advice to you is consider your options carefully.

[Alan Case]

Hi. OK, I have some things to think about then. The laser salesman never tell you any of this.
Regards Alan Case

[Gary Hair]

Alan,
I have a GCC Explorer (Pinnacle ZX), 30 watt. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how fast you can do Rowmark type material on the laser. I guarantee you that I can outperform any rotary machine out there, and with only 30 watts! My ZX has a 38" x 20" bed and I can fit quite a large piece of material in at one time. The front and back doors open so you could have a piece that is much longer than 20". I would cut a 4' x 8' sheet into 48" x 32" pieces and load them up with the door open allowing you to cut a 32" x 20" piece and simply slide it in another 20" for the next batch.
If you have a sample of the piece you need to do, I would be happy to run it on my laser to give you an idea how long it would take to do a batch of them. Just email it to me. garyhair at comcast dot net

Gary

[Alan Case]

Hi all. I have been busy checking the router market now as well as lasers.
I have a few more questions.
How closely does everyone watch their laser when in use. ie like a hawk or is it in the corner of the room while you do something else in the vicinity.
I presume you could set up some kind of smoke.fire detector. I notice some models do have this as an option.
I have seen some samples of laser labels and they are a lot crisper in the letters than our engraved ones (not that it matters that much as the rotary engraved ones are quite OK) The laser label has no bevel on the edges but for our use this is no concern.
I am still waiting on pricing of Rowmark material from our suppliers, (things move slow here) so can someone give us an idea on relative pricing on the 2 substrate types. We usually buy in full sheets of white surface with Black underlay and Red surface and white underlay. Plain gloss version.
Our largest label is our logo which is about 6" x 4" though some labels can be 0.5" x 18". (we make the long labels at present in 2 peices) All the smaller machines can do our labels but when you group the labels there is always material wasted at the edge of the smaller sheets. With a larger bed we could reduce this wastage and also the time it takes to swap sheets. I doubt if we would use the pass through doors much as we would cut the sheets to suit the bed.

I have found the ISEL website. What software do you use for your labels using these machines as they seem be more setup for CNC with GCode style operation?
Regards Alan Case

[Dave Jones]

With non-flamable materials (aluminum, glass, stone) I'll turn my back and work on the computer. With wood, plastic, and paper I watch the laser.

I saw too many stories of lasers getting destroyed, or buildings catching fire to go far from it when it's running.

[Rodne Gold]

We ALWAYS watch the lasers when cutting , we have already had one laser fire (tho no serious damage)
For large labelling jobs , we make our own engraving lams which seem more durable than the Rowmark/Gravograph stuff.
We use a matt automotive paint and merely spray coloured ABS , this engraves beautifully and is real cheap and resists scratching more than the commercial stuff.
In terms of laserable substrates , ABS doesnt work that well and the actual substrate is normally acrylic based with a screend cap, its more expensive to make , assuming you can get the coloured acrylics in the thickness you require.
The laser works real well , but slow , on the phenolic type lams , like traffolyte , rotary is way quicker on this and the laser struggles to cut these.
As to software , we use Autocad but can actually use any package on our Isels , for Acad , I have written my own post processor to send to the the ISEL (I started this 20 yrs ago) and now use Signlab or engravelab or profilelab as well as they can all take Corel files and send em to the Isels.
The profilelab package I use has a nesting function which arranges the pieces to use the minimal material or you can specify a material size and the package will auto arrange in that size.

Pass thru is a stuff up as you have no effective fume extraction and you need that for engraving plastics as they stink when engraved and the fumes will dirty your optics.
The bells and whistles marketed with lasers are actually mainly worthless , like 3d engraving (very difficult to program and bad surfaces) , stamp mode (far cheaper ways to make stamps, messy , smaelly , constant optical cleaning required), rotary (useless unless you do a lot of decorative work), pass thru (fiddly and no fume extraction , danger of stray beams)
Large table sizes are also somewhat a double edged sword as often unless alignment is spot on , the laser loses a lot of power at points on the table and thus you dont get proper engraving or cuts that dont pierce.

[Scott Shepherd]

Don't forget the fact that after burning the tags out, they will more than likely need to be cleaned. Not so much from the lettering, but from the cutting out of the tag itself. With the red/white combo, from my very limited experience, expect to have to clean that.

[Bill Cunningham]

I find lamicoids, control panels and name badges a snap to do in the laser. For lamicoid labels and namebadges, a lot of power is not required you can set up a hundred or more small labels at the same time, engrave them, and score them (I never cut all the way through, a high speed vector score/cut does the job. I use 30% power, and 100% speed on a 35 watt) in a sheet as large as your machine will take. If you have to cut holes, a small decrease in speed will kiss cut the holes) You can then pull the sheet, clean it (I also usually put a coat of polymer polish on it) then simply snap the pieces out along the score lines, they always snap clean. If your machine is in the same room, you can monitor the progress, while doing other jobs. I gave up doing those things on a rotary years ago..

[Alan Case]

An update. Just placed a deposit on an Epilog Helix 35W with most accessories thrown into the deal. Was a pretty good price also.
Thanks to everyone for the advice.
Regards Alan Case

[Peck Sidara]

Congrats Alan!

I'm happy to hear you decided to go with Epilog. You won't be disappointed. You have great Aussie Epilog reps in Alfex or Project and if your rep is Project, you'll find young Zed to be a great source of technical information.

:D

[Alan Case]

It was project, I have met Zed but as yet have not needed his help.
Regards Alan Case