What problems occur if exhaust DC outside?

[Jim C Bradley]

Hi,
I have just finished reading the "Dust Collector Dilemma" thread. This leads me to ask, What problems do we create if we exhaust our DC outside?
I am in a residential area in the city of Oceanside, CA. My Penn State, 2hp, dual 1 micron bag DC is in the "outhouse" (that is what we call the shed I built to house the air compressor, dust collector and some storage). My next door neighbor is about forty feet away. If I duct outside am I going to kill his plants? I am much more concerned about his plants than my own.
There is almost always a slight breeze flowing past the outhouse towards the street (roughly 35 feet away).
If I can remove the dust bag and open the outhouse door or put a 6" duct to outside, I will get rid of CFM reduction with plugged bags, bag cleaning, etc. I live in a great neighborhood with wonderful neighbors and I would like to keep it that way.
Sorry, I am babbling---maybe too much coffee.
Enjoy,
Jim

[Greg Sznajdruk]

May commercial shops vent outside of their buildings. The cyclones are external to their buildings. The down side is loss of conditioned air from your building. Also commercial shops are usually in industrial parks so concern about nieghbours plants is not a large concern.

Greg

[Mario Lucchesi]

You also lose heat/ AC that you have running by pulling it out of the shop

[David Weaver]

In the winter, if you have a furnace that draws air from the inside and it's running, you run the risk of pulling carbon monoxide into the house due to the negative pressure in the presumably attached garage.

If it's a separate building, it's just the loss of conditioned air, but you can get radiative (of whatever the word is) heaters that heat you and not the air to mitigate a good bit of that.

I probably shouldn't be talking because I still use a shop vac and a bucket cyclone, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. :)

[Russ Filtz]

More noise pollution too for the neighbors?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

What problems do we create if we exhaust our DC outside?

In CA I'll bet it's illegal (nearly everything is). Call the Code enforcement people to check.

You'll suck all the HVAC outta your shop (assuming you have it).

If filtration fails or is inadequate (or non existent) neighbors may complain about wood dust on their cars, gardens, homes, etc., depending on wind proximity etc..

1 micron will get most the dust that people would observe as deposits on their plants cars etc., (unless you are running a serious production outfit).

Unless you are working toxic wood like American Walnut you won't kill plants with wood dust. Even then you'd need a fair amount of dust on the plants and soil. Walnut isn't like Strontium 90.

[Jim O'Dell]

I'd reiterate the noise issue Russ mentioned. I vent outside, but I'm more like 2 or 300 feet from the nearest neighbor. It is louder outside the shop than inside. Muffler might help that some, but 40 feet away would probably get very annoying to them. If filtered back into the shop, there are a lot of things that will knock the noise down, and more things you can do to help knock it down. Jim.

[David Giles]

From someone who vents a small DC outside, I'm not sure it fits your situation. Removing the upper bag / cartridge will let more dust out and you are pretty close to the street and your neighbors. Unless you get frequent rains, the dust will be quite noticeable. Venting outside works best in isolated areas where dusting everything isn't a problem and no one will complain about noise. Have you looked at the cartridge filters?

[Jim C Bradley]

Thanks David,
I am in So. Calif. just far enough from the ocean to miss the moisture and close enough to have a very short thermometer. I can work in the shop almost any day or night without worrying about losing heat or cool.
We run the furnace about 5 minutes per YEAR. We do not have air conditioning.
I am a one person, hobby person, very low production, woodworker.
I just don't want to bug my wonderful neighbors.
Enjoy,
Jim

[Jim C Bradley]

Hi,
Losing heat or air conditioning is not a problem where I live. 40 degrees is freezing and 80 degrees is cooking.
I just want to keep happy neighbors. Only one neighbor is close enough to matter. My property goes 190 feet down into a canyon, the other side of my property has my house, 40 feet, the neighbors 3 car garage before encountering their living space. Across the street, the living area is at the back of the house.
Thanks again and Enjoy,
Jim

[Jim C Bradley]

Thanks Mario,
This may be a duplicate response. However, I don't think the original got through to you.
Where I live there is a very short thermometer. I don't have to worry about losing heat or cooling. We only use the furnace about 5 minutes a year. We don't have A/C.
My concerns are only for one neighbor. The others are quite a distance away from the "Outhouse." Noise and Dust are the concerns. I am a hobby woodworker. Very low production. I am apt to work anytime between 8:00 a.m. and 10:30 p.m. The neighbors say that they cannot hear the TS or jointer, let alone be bothered by the noise.
Thanks again and enjoy,
Jim

[Jim C Bradley]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the response. I have already told some of the others that I live in an area with a very short thermometer (40 is freezing and 80 is cooking). Losing heat or cooling does not matter. We don't use the furnace and we don't have air conditioning.
I only have one neighbor near enough to be a concern. I don't want to cause them any problem. In this neighborhood if I cause a problem I will be, very politely, told about it. We don't raise a ruckus if there is a problem, we just take care of the problem.
So, if I make too much noise or dust I will hear about it. I would prefer to solve the problem before it annoys someone. They say that they cannot hear my TS or jointer, let alone be annoyed by them.
How do you get your exhaust into the air? A fan after the air leaves a bag or cannister? Don't use filtration? Or what?
I would gladly use acoustic materials in the "Outhouse" to curb noise. However, the air does have to get out and that means sound can also.
The outhouse itself is very solid construction on cement slab.
It seems like building a woodworking shop is nothing but questions.
Enjoy,
Jim

[Jim C Bradley]

Hi David,
I have been going to set up a woodworking hobby shop for 50 years. What happened is that my tools have been in a room with garden tools, cars, etc. There were times it would take me 20 minutes to get to the TS.
Anyway now the shop is becoming a reality. Being very naieve and money conscious, I purchased a dust collector first. Luckily I did not do too badly (PennState 2hp, 1 bag above to filter dust and 1 bag below as chip collector). Because of cost I did not even consider cartridge.
This is a hobby. I will be VERY low volume. The DC and the other things I am doing are for health reasons. I am planning to be active at age 100. I am now 81. I don't want to polute these old lungs, which are serving me very well.
I am in So. Calif. What is rain?
I have powered exhaust in the gabel (wide open to the shop). Almost all of the time I have a gentle cross breeze through the shop by opening a west door and an east garage door or two.
I guess I want to be happy, enjoy the shop, not have to work too hard emptying dust bags, and not bug the neighbors. (Don't want much, Huh)
Enjoy,
Jim

[Jim C Bradley]

THANKS! to all of you who responded. My mind is clearer on the subject now. However, I am still wide open to sugestions. I have put far more money into DC than I intended and that means I am spending less on tools than I would like...much to the chagrin of my youngest son who will inheret the tools.
Enjoy,
Jim

[David Giles]

Jim, I'm going to change my recommendation. At an active 81, you should just tell those neighbors to respect their elders and do what you want! At low volumes, the dust won't be noticeable.

I believe the best dust protection is to work outside with a breeze at your back, preferably facing the ocean. Second best is working inside with a fan at your back and a good cross breeze flowing in one end of the shop and out the other. It sounds like your shop has a good air flow which will carry the small micron particulates out the back door.

[Jim O'Dell]

Jim, I have a cyclone, so getting the exhaust out is not a problem. It leaves the blower and has to go somewhere.:D You can see pictures of my set up on my shop rehab thread if interested. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14427&page=3&highlight=COOLMEADOW+CREATIONS post 83 shows the exhaust part of the cyclone.
It exits the cyclone about 8' up, then goes through an 8" metal wye, two short lengths of flex hose, and two louvered exhaust portsthrough the gable end of the roof. I haven't noticed any dust outside on the tree or ground, but there is a little discoloration on the white louvers.
I've never been around a non-cyclone collector, so I'm not sure how you would modify the 2 bag setup to run the exhaust. Does that unbolt from the blower outlet? Jim.

[Matt Meiser]

If I understand correctly, you don't have a cyclone. You'll want some way to drop at least the big stuff out of the exhaust before it goes outside. Keith Outten posted a picture of a drop box he uses, but I couldn't find it in a quick search. His is the shipping crate from his Shop Bot or some other tool. A drum separator like the kit sold by Highland Woodworking or those plastic trash can lids use the same concept.

Personally, I would build an inexpensive separator from a trash can or some kind of large box and some PVC piping and try it out.

[John Vigants]

I think you are worrying over this more than you need to - just give it a go. If you notice effects of the dust that would bother you then put the filter bag back on before it bothers your neighbor.

[Keith Outten]

Dust Collection Chip Box Thread.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=53504&highlight=chip

[Jim C Bradley]

Hi Jim,
If I were to remove the top (1 micron filter) bag and replace the bottom (chip collector) bag with a separator, I would end up with a 2hp blower. It was interesting to hear your comment about not noticing any dust except, "a little discoloration on the white louvers."
Another few weeks should have the shop in reasonable working condition and with the DC connected. I will give it a shot and see how it functions. If I have problems I will do a short trial without the filter bag.
I have an excelllent pollution testing device. It is called my wife (Myrna). She can tell you what kind of perfume the lady across the street is wearing.
I went to your Coolmeadow thread. You have put in a heck of a lot of work and it looks like you have a fabulous shop to show for it. The pic of the two blowers was excellent.
Thanks again and Enjoy,
Jim

[Paul Simmel]

Over here on our new construction site venting through a flexible hose right out a garage bay toward the back of the property is not a problem. Spring, here in the Midwest, chips/dust can fly… the excavator can plow it all in on his final trip. But after I get everything buttoned up by Oct, I’m NOT going to want to go back to the internal bags which I have been using for many years in numerous shops.

Now that I am liberated.

I’m not made of money like many people here who post and who are hobbyists.

Keith’s “Chip Box” is a very viable option for my future DC system.

Though I have roughed in 6” DC duct work, with a Grizzly 1.5 hp internal system which will suck a cat off a respective table, venting outside is like night and day because the bag back-pressure is eliminated with an external system… either right out the door like me, or, as I can imagine via a “breathable” chip box.

A leak here or there… who cares.

My up coming concern has been interior air displacement, so I have refrained from placing a fitting in the wall which could redirect air flow outside. I’m thinking… in the dead of winter, I’d not want to suck the heat out and have a higher heating bill, but then again I have a remote for my DC, so I can’t see too much wasted air vs. cleaner air.

Keith, my hat is off to you. I am convinced that your concept of an exterior chip collector is, for those who can do, the most optimum system.

Thanks to the OP and Keith.

[Mark Singer]

My Onieda cyclone exhausts to the outside and it works great! There is no visible dust or anything....its the way to go in Southern California or where weather is not an issue...

[Russ Massery]

I vent my Clearvue outside in fair weather. (When I'm not heating or cooling the shop). No adverse affects to the ground or surrounding area. But then again most cyclones do a great job of separating out the dust. Most of what goes though the filters or outside in this case. Are very fine particles.

[Roland Chung]

You mentioned that the furnace does not go on often enough to be of concern, but is your shop in the garage? Is there a water heater in that garage area?

I have a freind who found extra storage space in his garage - by cutting into the return for his central a/c. With the garage door closed, he had a negative pressure situation that was pulling the exhaust from the water heater (in the garage) and distributing it throughout the house.

I broke down and bought an Oneida cyclone and am happy with it. If I had your situation, I would probably want to put the cyclone/dc in the outhouse (soundproofed) and exhaust it through the canister filter, back into the shop.