Lacquer Sources

[Jared Greenberg]

I am looking black and clear lacquers. I currently am using Minwax poly. and it turns the wood a gold/yellow (maple and ash). I am looking for something with similar properites to the Minwax that will keep the wood a nice and 'white' color.

Also I would like to coat the wood with a black lacquer. Currently I am painting the wood black and then coating with the Minwax, I would just like to take out the extra step(s).

Gallon quanities are needed, and a supplier in Canada would be helpful, but if the price is good, I would be willing to support our neighbor's to the south.

[Jim Becker]

Target Coatings (http://www.targetcoatings.com) products might fit your bill. You can buy direct or from Homestead Finishing. (Jeff Jewitt) Target can tell you if they have a distributor in Canada, however. These are water borne products and the clear finishes will not color the wood much at all. (Outside of those that intentionally are formatted to do so)

For solvent-based lacquer (assuming you can spray it safely), Sherwin Williams offers products in their stores if you have any locally.

[Jared Greenberg]

Thanks Jim. Right now we are using minwax oil based gel stains, and an oil based minwax. Both adhere to each other, obviously.

I like working with the gel stain as it goes on evenly and easily. Would the OXFORD SERIES Super-clear Polyurethane adhere to the minwax stuff?

As for the lacquer, we use dipping tanks/vats to dip our product in and hang dry it.

I found a Sherwin Williams store in Calgary, thanks.

[Jim Becker]

Why do you need polyurethane? There are so many great products available and outside of floors or very heavily used objects where abrasion resistance is a plus, it's really not needed. Minwax, which primarily markets retail pretty much only offers poly products, however. Sherwin Williams (same company, actually) offers other non-poly alternatives.

I use Oxford USL for nearly all my projects that require a clear top coat, although I'm about to try the new Oxford Hybrid WB alkyd product on some cherry vanities...because I actually want the warmer color. (I've also enjoyed using Fuhr International products, but tend to stick with one supplier for convenience)

As to your adherence question, yes, the Oxford WB Polyurethane product you mention will adhere fine to any properly prepared and wax-free surface. Many folks do prefer to do a barrier coat of super-blond de-waxed shellac, however, to insure best results with a clear finish over stains and dyes. I'm not sure about the "dipping" technique you mention for application, however...it generally gets sprayed and can also be brushed on.

Do remember that "gel stains" pretty much stay on top of the material so they are like a color coat not unlike thin paint. They will often obscure certain fine grain details, so be sure you want that look.

[Jared Greenberg]

Well, I don't really know why I need polyurathane. We just have used that for the last 5 years and it works!

We are finishing baseball bats, so the grain does show to a certain extent, which is not a big deal, and it applies easy and quickly, which is important.

What product do you suggest for dipping over these gel stains.

I am calling Sherwin Williams tomorrow to get more info. I am excited about the black lacquer, and the prospect of getting rid of the smell.

[Jim Becker]

Jared, I don't know if SW has a water borne lacquer, but they do sell normal NC lacquers, etc...all with "the smell". I don't know anything about using "dipping" for finishing, either, although it sounds like a kewel way to get the stuff on a bat!

[Jared Greenberg]

In the industry dipping is the way to go for the finishing. Some companies spray, but you need the space/manpower to do so and is basically more overhead.

With some of the work on here, finishing a bat I would imagine is a lot less work, some of the pieces are unreal. Sometimes I feel embarassed to use a lathe for something so simple.

Basically to finish a bat, we use the gel stains in several colors, let them dry, apply some labels on the barrel, then a coat of the minwax polyurathane, a light 220 sanding, then another coat. Produces a nice smooth finish, and we use a high gloss for appearance. Basically the poly protects the bats from moisture (both getting in and out) and so the stains/paint doesn't go onto the baseball when hit.

Like I said we have been doing this for 5 years this way, but I am always looking to improve the product, and speed up production, and getting rid of the smell would be nice. I don't really want to add anymore steps as speed is important to us and the customers.

Jim, would you suggest that I switch from the minwax poly to the Oxford WB Polyurethane, while sticking with the same gel stains?

[Jim Becker]

Try it to see if it will meet your expectations. Worse case, you have some nice finish for an alternative woodworking project...

[Terry Bigelow]

Jared, I don't know if SW has a water borne lacquer, but they do sell normal NC lacquers, etc...all with "the smell". I don't know anything about using "dipping" for finishing, either, although it sounds like a kewel way to get the stuff on a bat!
Yes, SW does carry a WB lacquer in thier "sher-wood" line of coatings. We used it for YEARS and just switched about 2 1/2 years ago to a nitro-cellulose. I've never heard of the "dipping" method either. Interesting. I can't imagine dipping cab parts, doors and trim but seems like for your application it makes sense! Do you have a giant tank or what? Guess it wouldn't have to that big if all you do is bats. Got any pics? I'd love to see how it all works.

[Jared Greenberg]

I will try the SW stuff since it is local and in the same 'family'.

It is not a huge tank, some PVC tubing with the lacquer inside of it, plunge the bat in there, the diameter is such that the space taken up by the bat forces the lacquer up the tube and over the whole bat, take the bat out, let the majority of the excess run off, give it a few shakes to get a little more off, hang to dry, come back about an hour later to wipe off the bottom so there is not excess that dries in little drops, and wait for about 8 hours.

We use the same method for black bats with the paint and mineral spirits in the same tube, dip the bats, hang to dry. Black is basically the most popular color, so dipping is the most time saving way here.

[Jared Greenberg]

Yes, SW does carry a WB lacquer in thier "sher-wood" line of coatings.


I can't find this line on their site, can you post the link to it?

[Alex Berkovsky]

... I don't know anything about using "dipping" for finishing, either, although it sounds like a kewel way to get the stuff on a bat!Jim,
Are you sure? What about this method? --> Click me (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=50282)

:D

[Jim Becker]

Alex, my brain never connected that to the discussion... ;)

[Terry Bigelow]

I can't find this line on their site, can you post the link to it?

Sorry, don't have one! We used to get it directly from thier store. Here in GA there are several small "satellite" stores which have the usual homeowner supplies and some pro stuff but downtown is more of a distribution center where they actually mix stains and paints. We used to have to go there to get the lacquer. Actually we still go there for all our spray dye stains. I'll see if I can find an old 5 gal. and look for a # or I'll ask next time I make an order. I'm sure if you ask your local store they can point you in the right direction.

[Jared Greenberg]

Stopped in at Benjamin Moore yesterday, and got some advice.

They said that lacquer even water born might stink quite bad. They also said that the lacquer might 'spider web' with some force applied to it.

I bought a quart of their private label clear water based stuff. He suggested applying it lightly with a foam brush instead of dipping it as it might not run off enough and stay milky and the excess won't run off. So I will see how fast I can apply by hand. At least this way there won't be a lot of waste since with what I am doing there is quite a bit since when it hangs there is stuff that runs off until it dries a little.

I am going to do a test piece to see how this stuff works today.

[Jim Becker]

The water borne "lacquer" is an acrylic, not really "lacquer" in the sense of traditional NC lacquer. The odor is about the same or less than typical house paint.