Beall Tilt Box Angle Gauge Review

[Bruce Benjamin]

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A few weeks ago there was a thread on another forum about the Wixey Digital Angle Gauge, (one of many) and in that thread there was mention of a competing product called the, "Beall Tilt Box". I had just purchased the Wixey but I really wanted to see how the Beall compared to it. I ordered one and figured I'd return whichever unit I liked less. Here's the Beall Tilt Box [URL]http://www.bealltool.com/products/measuring/tiltbox.php (http://www.bealltool.com/products/measuring/tiltbox.php)


Appearance: When I got the Tilt Box from Beall the first thing I noticed was that it feels much more substantial than the Wixey. It's a little bit larger but the case is made out of metal instead of plastic. Also, it uses a 9v battery so that also would contribute to the extra weight.

The magnets are on the side of the box instead of the bottom. This means that when you zero the box it's not stuck to the table surface and you keep it upright when you stick it to the saw blade or other vertical surface. Obviously, when the saw blade is straight up and down, (90 degrees to the table) the Beall will read, "0.00 degrees". The Wixey magnets are on the bottom of the unit so you have to turn the unit on it's side to stick it to the saw blade. The Wixey readout is then sideways. No big deal but they are different in that respect.

It has two buttons, one for power and one to zero it and to switch between functions. Switching between functions is another difference between the Beall and the Wixey. When you first turn the Beall on it goes into, "Absolute level" mode. You can use it like you would use a very short bubble level. According to the instructions you can recalibrate it easily too. Push the zero button again and it goes to, "Relative level" mode and zero itself. Pushing this button toggles the unit back and forth between the two modes. In order to re zero the unit for relative level mode you have to push the button twice. Once to take it back to absolute level and then again back to relative level. Another difference is that the Beall display goes to two decimal places to the right of zero whereas the Wixey only goes to one. But the second decimal place on the Beall only reads a zero or a 5. Still, that can potentially add a little more precision. More on that later. The other difference between the two boxes is how they measure the angles. The Wixey uses an internal pendulum while the Beall doesn't. I spoke to J.R. Beall and he told me it uses an electronic method instead of a mechanical pendulum but I don't know much more about how it functions than that. They definitely work using a different principal.

Function: I wasn't too thrilled with the first Beall Tilt Box I received. Apparently it had only been available for a couple of weeks and there was a bug or two in the first ones shipped out. It was too hard to push the zero button and get the reading to actually read, "Zero". It would read .1 or .05 some of the time. I really had to work to keep from moving the box even slightly while zeroing it. When I called and talked to J.R. Beall he explained that the buttons on the one I received were harder to push than their second batch and that he would send me out a new one right away. He didn't even wait for me to send the first one back. I received it a few days later and there is definitely a difference between the two. It's easier to push the buttons on the new one because they stick out slightly farther. Therefore it's easier to keep from moving the box while it's being zeroed.

One thing is certain, the Beall is definitely more sensitive to movement than the Wixey. I've used them both side by side and you do have to be a little more careful not to move the Beall when you zero it. But after playing with it for a little while it was easy to zero it on the first try 9 times out of 10. It seems to, "Calm down" a bit after it's been on for a minute or two and J.R. Beall suggested that I turn it on right before I need it, presumably to let the electronics inside settle down a bit. Still, it's not hard to zero it at all even when it's just turned on.

I tested both the Beall and the Wixey side by side in a few different tests. First I set them both on my jointer table and zeroed them. I then picked them up and set them back down in the same spot. Both units went back to zero and I tried this several times. I then compared them on the face of my jointer fence. They both showed the fence to be right at 90 degrees to the table. http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowyes.gif I guess my Harbor Freight engineering squares are at least as accurate as both of these electronic boxes. http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowcool.gif On one end of my fence, which apparently has a very slight twist to it, the Wixey read 90.1 and the Beall read .05. Close enough to show me that they are both reading about the same thing, only the Beall is able to read a little more precisely.

The final test I did was on my table saw. I zeroed both gauges on the table top next to the blade. I didn't place them on the MDF zero clearance insert I have because it's slightly scratched up and both gauges could rock slightly. The table top is smooth and clean and both gauges could sit flat to zero. I put both gauges onto the blade. They both indicated that the blade is right at 90 degrees to the table. The Wixey read 90.0 and the Beall read 0.00. Another accurate setup. http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowyes.gif http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowcool.gif I then cranked the blade over until the it hit the 45 degree stop. I guess due to sawdust buildup the stop allowed for a slight variance of a few tenths of a degree depending on how hard I cranked on the handle. But when one gauge read 45 degrees the other did too. I took both gauges off of the tilted blade and set them back onto the table. Both read zero again and then back onto the tilted blade. Both read 45 again. I cranked the blade back to it's 90 degrees to the table position and we were right back where we started. I repeated this test several times and both gauges were consistent. The only difference was that right before reaching 45 degrees the Beall would read 44.95 while the Wixey already read 45.0 When I cranked slightly farther the Beall then read 45.00 and the Wixey still read 45.0. To me this showed that that extra .05 reading of the Beall might be useful. But since both gauges have a claimed accuracy of +-.1 degrees it's arguable that this slight difference really doesn't matter.

So what's the real difference between the two in my mind? I like the Beall better because: 1) it's made of metal instead of plastic. 2) A 9V batter is easier to find and probably cheaper than the smaller one on the Wixey. 3) I like the magnets on the side of the unit a little better than on the bottom. The readout is a little easier to read this way. 4) It's slightly larger. That won't make a huge difference but being a little larger I figure it might sit more consistently on a slightly uneven surface. This one's debatable but I thought I'd list it anyway. 5) It's a little more sensitive than the Wixey. This may be a negative for someone who doesn't have a steady hand but after a few minutes of playing with it I could zero it just about as easily as the Wixey. The advantage of the increased sensitivity shows up with the .05 decimal place and I saw the difference on both my TS saw blade and on the slight twist of my jointer fence. 6) Beall Tool Company has an 800 phone number and it's really easy to talk to J.R. Beal, the owner and inventor. Wixey doesn't offer any phone number at all and can only be reached by email. Mr. Wixey has been fairly quick to answer my emails though but a phone call, (even if it's not free) is much better in my opinion. 7) Both companies offer a good product and the end function of both units is very close. The Beall does offer a few differences that I consider to be improvements. They both retail at about $40. I've only had customer service with the Beall company and it was outstanding but I've heard that Wixey offers good customer service too. But without any phone number available I see the ease of resolving any problem or getting an answer to a question relying only on email, and I much prefer a phone call. Probably not a big deal to some people though. It's just my personal preference.

Bottom line: In a few minutes I'm leaving to go down to the UPS store with 2 boxes to be shipped. One will contain the first Beall Tilt Box that I received, (I like the second one much better http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowsmile.gif ) and the second box will contain the Wixey which is on it's way back to Woodcraft. I would have been happy with the Wixey if I had never heard of the Beall Tilt Box but now that I've tried them both I prefer the Beall. I don't think many people will be unhappy with the Wixey either but since I have to send one back I'll keep the one that I see as having the advantage. YMMV, of course.

Bruce

[glenn bradley]

Bruce,

Thanks for a great review. When I think about one of these only being a bit more than a small metal 90 / 45 setup block I guess I'm sold. Nice to hear the differences.

[Doug Shepard]

Nicely done write-up. I noticed Beall's site says the $40 is a (special introductory offer). Talking to the owner, did he mention what it's going to be when the intro offer stops? Just curious how they're going to compare to Wixey's on that point.

[Gary Warren]

Thanks for the review. I was just going to order a Wixey tonight when I read your review. I will go with the Beall and let others know how I like it. Thanks again.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Bruce,

Thanks for a great review. When I think about one of these only being a bit more than a small metal 90 / 45 setup block I guess I'm sold. Nice to hear the differences.


Agreed about the price. For either brand, $40 for something that works so well and is so versatile is a bargain. People have payed a lot more, (people like me:o) for tools that are a lot less useful.

Bruce

[Bruce Benjamin]

Nicely done write-up. I noticed Beall's site says the $40 is a (special introductory offer). Talking to the owner, did he mention what it's going to be when the intro offer stops? Just curious how they're going to compare to Wixey's on that point.

Doug, I didn't notice that detail about the pricing nor did I ask J.R. about it. But when I showed both tools to a mechanic friend of mine who believes in only buying the best tools for his shop, he questioned why the Beall was the same price as the Wixey. He said he would expect the Beall to cost more. It may or may not really be an important point for a tool that measures angles but the Beall really feels and looks more substantial than the Wixey and it does have the, "Absolute level" feature along with the extra decimal place. Those features may not be important to some people or even most people but you are getting a little bit more for your money. Knowing what I know now, I would probably pay $20 more for the Beall than the Wixey if I had to do it over again.

I own a $25 or $30 fractional dial caliper that I love and it's worked beautifully. Or, I could've payed more two or three times that amount for one that nearly identical only it has the, "Starrett" name on it. I don't believe that it's any more accurate or precise and it's not likely to be any more durable. With these two digital angle gauges there is actually a few differences between the two. Maybe not enough to pay more for one or the other for some people but that's just a matter of personal opinion I guess. I would always rather pay less and get more if I can but that's just the cheap skate in me talking.:D

Bruce

[Don Bullock]

Bruce, that's an excellent review. Thank you for sharing your results.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Thanks for the review. I was just going to order a Wixey tonight when I read your review. I will go with the Beall and let others know how I like it. Thanks again.


I hope you like it and I would make the same choice as you if I hadn't already bought one. But to be honest, both companies make a very nice product and I don't think anyone would be disappointed with either gauge for such a cheap price. But since I want the most for my money I decided to keep the Beall.

Bruce

[Allen Bookout]

I just orderd the Beall. I hope that mine works as good as yours Bruce. I had decided not to buy any more woodworking stuff this month and now look at what you did. I just kept thinking how handy it would be to have something like this.

[Bruce Benjamin]

I just orderd the Beall. I hope that mine works as good as yours Bruce. I had decided not to buy any more woodworking stuff this month and now look at what you did. I just kept thinking how handy it would be to have something like this.

Sorry Allen!;) I'm sort of in the same boat. I can't really afford new tools. Heck, I can't even afford new wood!:eek: But this was cheap and I have several uses other than for the table saw. Actually I don't use my TS much anymore because I use the EZ instead. But the TS isn't it's only use.

Bruce

[Allen Bookout]

Actually I don't use my TS much anymore because I use the EZ instead.

Bruce

This brings up a question. Can the Beall angle finder be used to square my blade on my circular saw when setting on a rail and using the antichip insert when using the EZ? May be underneath with a full debth of cut set? I don't know if there is enough blade surface available to make it work as I have not used one yet. I know that my cuts are not perfectly ninety degrees as when I am pulling the pieces together with pocket hole screws the wood pieces are not pulled together at a perfect ninety degree angle. I was hoping to avoid a bunch of trial and error.

I hate to even respond to any EZ stuff as I do not want this to get crazy.

[Bruce Benjamin]

This brings up a question. Can the Beall angle finder be used to square my blade on my circular saw when setting on a rail and using the antichip insert when using the EZ? May be underneath with a full debth of cut set? I don't know if there is enough blade surface available to make it work as I have not used one yet. I know that my cuts are not perfectly ninety degrees as when I am pulling the pieces together with pocket hole screws the wood pieces are not pulled together at a perfect ninety degree angle. I was hopeing to avoid a bunch of trial and error.

I hate to even respond to any EZ stuff as I do not want this to get crazy.


Allen, I really haven't had the time or the wood to do any projects since I bought this tool. But checking the blade on my Hilti while it's on the EZ rail is something I had planned to check. I don't see why it shouldn't work fine. There might be a detail or two to figure out to make sure I get good results but I don't see any reason why it won't work. So far, however, I haven't had any problems getting perfect cuts with my EZ/Hilti combo. I was more planning on using it to set the saw for perfect bevels.

Bruce

[Doug Shepard]

Bruce
I only asked about the pricing as I'd hate their business to never get off the ground (competition is a good thing) because the Wixey was eating all their sales due to lower prices. If I didn't already have a Wixey (a Christmas present) I'd probably pay more for the Beall too based on your review, but a lot of people are going to percieve them as being pretty equivalent and just go for whichever is cheaper. Here's hoping that their non-Intro pricing isn't so much higher than the Wixey that this doesn't put them out of the game.

[Bruce Benjamin]

I want to correct an error I found in my review. I listed one of the advantages of the Beall as it having a metal case and that the Wixey is plastic. What I meant to say was that the Beall is all metal, (Except for the readout face) and the Wixey is metal with a plastic front and back. The sides are metal. Sorry.

Bruce

[Eddie Darby]

Bruce, that's an excellent review. Thank you for sharing your results.

I'll second that! :D

[Brent Dowell]

Thanks for the review. I had been thinking about getting the wixey for a while. Don't tell Mr. Wixey, but thank's to your review, I've got a Beall on the way!

[Randy Klein]

For those interested, both the Beal and the Wixey are on sale at Hartville for 31.98 (plus S/H, tax if Oh) until 30 June or so...I just ordered mine.

In fact, all of their measuring and marking are 20% off...

[Gary Keedwell]

For those interested, both the Beal and the Wixey are on sale at Hartville for 31.98 (plus S/H, tax if Oh) until 30 June or so...I just ordered mine.

In fact, all of their measuring and marking are 20% off...

Randy, If I may be so bold...which toy, er I mean which tool, did you order? :confused:

Gary K.

[tim mathis]

for fathersday at hartvilletool enter woodnet20% in the shipping info and you will get 20% off everything not on sale. spend $200.00 or more and get free shipping.( spend $200.00 - 20 % = $160.00 and you get free shipping.) hope this helps someone.

[Randy Klein]

Gary, the beal, mainly based on the review in this thread. That extra decimal point may just be for show, but you can't resist it.

Although I find it interesting that it is accurate to 0.1, yet displays a resolution of 0.05

[Allen Bookout]

For those interested, both the Beal and the Wixey are on sale at Hartville for 31.98 (plus S/H, tax if Oh) until 30 June or so...I just ordered mine.



It never fails. I bought a Beal a few weeks ago at the regular price. It works really good.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Gary, the beal, mainly based on the review in this thread. That extra decimal point may just be for show, but you can't resist it.

Although I find it interesting that it is accurate to 0.1, yet displays a resolution of 0.05


There are some other differences that I mentioned in my review that I think are worth while. I think the 0.1 accuracy is just what it's guaranteed to be. I saw when comparing the Wixey and the Beall that the Beall's .05 number was changing before the Wixey. I had them both stuck to my saw blade and the Beall's extra .05 seemed to be doing what it was supposed to do, consistently.

I think that most people would be happy with either brand but to me the extra features of the Beall made the choice easy. They're not huge differences but when I'm choosing between two similar tools that are similar in price, I don't see any reason not to choose the better one.

Bruce

[Gary Keedwell]

There are some other differences that I mentioned in my review that I think are worth while. I think the 0.1 accuracy is just what it's guaranteed to be. I saw when comparing the Wixey and the Beall that the Beall's .05 number was changing before the Wixey. I had them both stuck to my saw blade and the Beall's extra .05 seemed to be doing what it was supposed to do, consistently.

I think that most people would be happy with either brand but to me the extra features of the Beall made the choice easy. They're not huge differences but when I'm choosing between two similar tools that are similar in price, I don't see any reason not to choose the better one.

Bruce
Bruce ...not trying to start anything:) but it might be a little premature to declare either one the "best" . They are both too new. I say we have a new thread on this in about a year.;)

Gary K.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Bruce ...not trying to start anything:) but it might be a little premature to declare either one the "best" . They are both too new. I say we have a new thread on this in about a year.;)

Gary K.


Uhhh, yeaaah...We don't want to rush into declaring a winner with such complicated tools. :rolleyes: Anyway, in my opinion, which shouldn't be confused with anyone else's opinion, the Beall is better for my purposes. :cool:

Bruce

[John Shumate]

Bruce, I was wondering if this might work with a band saw. I suppose if the blade was wide enough.
/John

[Bruce Benjamin]

Bruce, I was wondering if this might work with a band saw. I suppose if the blade was wide enough.
/John

It would probably work fine. The magnets are pretty powerful. the only issue might be if the teeth keep the box from sitting flat against the flat of the blade. Give it a try I guess.

Bruce

[Steve Clardy]

Super review :)

[Gary Keedwell]

Uhhh, yeaaah...We don't want to rush into declaring a winner with such complicated tools. :rolleyes: Anyway, in my opinion, which shouldn't be confused with anyone else's opinion, the Beall is better for my purposes. :cool:

Bruce
Well, you know what they say about every one having one, opinion that is:)
I have the Wixey and I just changed the battery after 6 months. Wonder how long the beal will last?:confused:
Gary K.

[Jason Beam]

Just ordered my Beall last night ... i'll letcha know how long the battery lasts ... though, i can't say if i'd care much if i go through three 9v batteries in the time you go through 1 of those 2032 batteries. At $4.99 apiece at radio shack, i'd still be ahead with 9v :)

[Bruce Benjamin]

Well, you know what they say about every one having one, opinion that is:)
I have the Wixey and I just changed the battery after 6 months. Wonder how long the beal will last?:confused:
Gary K.


I know what you mean about opinions. But at least mine is based on having both gauges to play with for a couple of weeks. ;) How long have you had the Beall? :eek: Oh yeah, you haven't tried one...:D

Regarding the batteries, I would expect the 9v to probably last at least half as long as the 9v in my smoke detector does. What do the 9v batteries cost at Walmart? 2 for a few bucks? How much will yours be when you have to replace it? The cheap 9v batteries were actually one of the features I found to be a benefit of the Beall. We'll see though. I go through enough 9v batteries now with 2 kids and their toys that I always have a pack or two somewhere.

Really though, there wasn't much about the Wixey I didn't like at all. I just had a chance to thoroughly compare the two brands and there was more to like about the Beall. I don't have any special requirements for a gauge like this so I would expect that most people who have the opportunity to test both as I did would probably come to the same conclusion as I did. About the only thing that I can see as a possible advantage to anyone would be if they liked the placement of the magnets better on one gauge or the other. Thinking about it, some people might not like that the Beall is slightly more sensitive to movement than the Wixey. But I would suspect that those same people would rather have a ruler that was marked with 1/32" instead of one marked with 1/64". At least that's the best analogy I could come up with. I'll work on it and get back to you. :D

Bruce

[Bruce Benjamin]

Super review :)

Thanks, Steve. I haven't submitted many tool reviews before and I don't think any where I had the two leading competitors side by side to compare. My original intent wasn't to review the Wixey with the Beall but I didn't really see any better way to do it.

Bruce

[Gary Keedwell]

[quote=Bruce Benjamin;604069]I know what you mean about opinions. But at least mine is based on having both gauges to play with for a couple of weeks. ;) How long have you had the Beall? :eek: Oh yeah, you haven't tried one...:D

:p Whoa there...I never said anything derogatory about the beal...what I meant was that their both relatively new and time will tell how they perform in the future. Durability, battery life etc. Alot of horses are strong out of the gate but sometimes peeter out.. long before the finish line.:D :D
Gary K.

[Jules Dominguez]

Bruce, I was wondering if this might work with a band saw. I suppose if the blade was wide enough.
/John
I received a Beall from Lee Valley a few days ago. It operates erratically, and I haven't taken the time to figure out what's happening and contact LV or Beall about it. One thing is when I "zero" it it doesn't read zero. Another is it's difficult to turn it off. Probably has the earlier model switches.
The size could be an issue. It fits on a fully raised 10" tablesaw blade with the table insert in place, but with no room to spare. On a 14" Delta bandsaw, the weight of the Beall causes the blade to move downward until the Beall is resting on the tabletop.
I plan to contact Beall to discuss the problems - I haven't yet, so don't take this information too negatively. It appears to give accurate readings.

[Bruce Benjamin]

[quote=Bruce Benjamin;604069]I know what you mean about opinions. But at least mine is based on having both gauges to play with for a couple of weeks. ;) How long have you had the Beall? :eek: Oh yeah, you haven't tried one...:D

:p Whoa there...I never said anything derogatory about the beal...what I meant was that their both relatively new and time will tell how they perform in the future. Durability, battery life etc. Alot of horses are strong out of the gate but sometimes peeter out.. long before the finish line.:D :D
Gary K.


I guess time will tell but I really don't think that electronics at this relatively basic level give much to worry about. But we will see I guess. Are there any modern electronic devices are are problematic that are as basic as this these days? For $40 or less I'm not going to be too upset if it only lasts a year or two. To me they're basically disposable and I'm a long way from being a rich man. I expect either unit to last long enough to be rendered obsolete.

Oh, and I didn't think you were being derogatory at all. I was just playing along. :)

Bruce

[Robert Mickley]

Gary, the beal, mainly based on the review in this thread. That extra decimal point may just be for show, but you can't resist it.

Although I find it interesting that it is accurate to 0.1, yet displays a resolution of 0.05

Accuracy and resolution are 2 different things. you set it on the table saw and zero it, it could be of up to 0.1 even though the readout shows 0.
The important thing is as long as it maintains that 0.1 throughout the range of motion since all we are using it for is measuring the difference in degrees between the saw table and the saw blade. ;)

[Randy Klein]

Accuracy and resolution are 2 different things. you set it on the table saw and zero it, it could be of up to 0.1 even though the readout shows 0.
The important thing is as long as it maintains that 0.1 throughout the range of motion since all we are using it for is measuring the difference in degrees between the saw table and the saw blade. ;)

I know they are 2 different things. I just think its funny to show a resolution at a finer precision than the accuracy.

Its like calculating solutions to mathematical/engineering problems. The accuracy of the answer can only be as accurate as the input data, even though the calculator will show many more digits than that.

In your example, if at 0, it could be up to 0.1 off, how does it choose to display 0.5 vs 0.0 since it can't resolve that difference due to the accuracy limitation?

But honestly, I really don't care either way. I like the extra digit.

[Jason Beam]

In your example, if at 0, it could be up to 0.1 off, how does it choose to display 0.5 vs 0.0 since it can't resolve that difference due to the accuracy limitation?

It was hard for me to grasp at first, too, but this statement is what stuck out at me. It's easy to wrap your head around it if you first realize that accuracy and resolution are unconnected. Neither one limits the other.

Your sentence is trying to combine the two and they're not even all that related. Resolution is the number of (or size of) distinct points that can be indicated. Precision is how accurate any given point is, NOT how accurate a value is for a given measurement. It sounds like splitting hairs at first but it does make sense, eventually.

Think about a table saw fence with a tape on the rail. Say the tape is marked in 32nds. The resolution is 1/32. Now, if manufacturing can put that tape's 0 mark as much as 1/16 from the blade, your accuracy is 1/16. Your resolution remains a 1/32 because the position of the tape doesn't change the distance between each mark, but it does change their precision since it's up to 1/16 away from the blade.

The above example fits with the previously stated sentiment of the accuracy being equal across the entire range of measure. Add to the fact that the tape was printed with a certain degree of accuracy and things get all sorts of logarithmic on you :P

I hope that I haven't confused the point even further. :)

[Bruce Benjamin]

It was hard for me to grasp at first, too, but this statement is what stuck out at me. It's easy to wrap your head around it if you first realize that accuracy and resolution are unconnected. Neither one limits the other.

Your sentence is trying to combine the two and they're not even all that related. Resolution is the number of (or size of) distinct points that can be indicated. Precision is how accurate any given point is, NOT how accurate a value is for a given measurement. It sounds like splitting hairs at first but it does make sense, eventually.

Think about a table saw fence with a tape on the rail. Say the tape is marked in 32nds. The resolution is 1/32. Now, if manufacturing can put that tape's 0 mark as much as 1/16 from the blade, your accuracy is 1/16. Your resolution remains a 1/32 because the position of the tape doesn't change the distance between each mark, but it does change their precision since it's up to 1/16 away from the blade.

The above example fits with the previously stated sentiment of the accuracy being equal across the entire range of measure. Add to the fact that the tape was printed with a certain degree of accuracy and things get all sorts of logarithmic on you :P

I hope that I haven't confused the point even further. :)

Good explanation, Jason. I've tried to explain the difference using the analogy of a bullseye target and a couple of rifles. A gun is more accurate but not as precise if you can get all of the bullets in a 3" ring around the bullseye but each bullet hole spread out all all the way around. The other gun isn't as accurate but is more precise when it can get each bullet right through the same hole but that hole is 6 inches away from the bullseye. I think your explanation works better for this situation though. Something with higher precision, (greater resolution) has the potential for greater accuracy but it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be more accurate.

Something to consider when Wixey and Beall give a claimed accuracy of .1 degree, that doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be off by .1 degree. It just means that this is what they guarantee. I've found that they both appear to be about dead on to the extent that their resolution allows. Did I say that right?:confused: :rolleyes: I think the Beall, with it's .05 resolution, was able to get closer to the mark than the Wixey. Or at least, I knew when the blade, fence, etc. was closer to the mark than with the Wixey. As I cranked my TS blade over with both gauges stuck to the blade, both readouts changed in unison except that the Beall's .05 number changed twice as often as the Wixey's .1 number changed. Clear as mud? :rolleyes:

Bruce

[Randy Klein]

Jason, thats a good way to explain it and I agree with you. I'll change my previous posts to reflect it and then claim you copied me...

[Art Mann]

I already own a Wixey and am pleased with it. However, I think your review was very nicely done and is definitely worthwhile to the community.

Good job,

Art

[Jason Beam]

Jason, thats a good way to explain it and I agree with you. I'll change my previous posts to reflect it and then claim you copied me...


:eek: :( :confused: :rolleyes: :p :cool:

That's okay, I'm sure the guy I stole it from won't find either of us! :P

[Brent Dowell]

I received a Beall from Lee Valley a few days ago. It operates erratically, and I haven't taken the time to figure out what's happening and contact LV or Beall about it. One thing is when I "zero" it it doesn't read zero. Another is it's difficult to turn it off. Probably has the earlier model switches.


I think it's just a pretty sensitive little gizmo. In order to get mine to register 0.00, I make sure the surface I have it on is dead still, and solid. Then I press down on top of it to hold it steady, and hit the reset button.

[Bruce Benjamin]

I think it's just a pretty sensitive little gizmo. In order to get mine to register 0.00, I make sure the surface I have it on is dead still, and solid. Then I press down on top of it to hold it steady, and hit the reset button.

It sounds like you got one of the early ones with the switch problem. Although mine didn't sound as difficult to use as yours, it was a little bit difficult to use. The second one works just fine. Contact Beall and I'll bet they'll swap it for a new one. They paid for my return shipping too.

Bruce

[Brent Dowell]

I just went out and checked the tilt box. Actually, It's not that bad. Got to the point I can do it one handed. Maybe my characterization was a little exaggerated?

I have to admit, I haven't gotten to play with it much yet, but I sure do like it. Just had to put the blade through the full tilt one way then t'other.

I was surprised that after moving my saw from the old place to the new, the tilt seemed to be pretty acurately set. A little off (.1?), but not bad.

Think I might be inspired to pull out all the dial indicators and stuff and do a little tune up on things.

Thanks!

[Bruce Benjamin]

I just went out and checked the tilt box. Actually, It's not that bad. Got to the point I can do it one handed. Maybe my characterization was a little exaggerated?

I have to admit, I haven't gotten to play with it much yet, but I sure do like it. Just had to put the blade through the full tilt one way then t'other.

I was surprised that after moving my saw from the old place to the new, the tilt seemed to be pretty acurately set. A little off (.1?), but not bad.

Think I might be inspired to pull out all the dial indicators and stuff and do a little tune up on things.

Thanks!

Brent, I was actually responding to the post by Jules but I didn't see his post that you quoted. I see his post now though. You probably have the newer Tilt Box. You do sort of have to have a steady hand but it only took me a few tries to get it right. Now it's easy to do. I look at this as a sign that the gauge is more sensitive. That's a good thing in my opinion.

How did you determine that it was the gauge that was off and not the blade? As long as I got it to zero properly I found that both the Wixey and the Beall to be right on the money. At least they consistently read the same when I took them off and put them back on again. Also, I used my machinist square to check the jointer fence and they always matched up. However, there could very well be some gauges that aren't as accurate as others are I suppose.

Bruce

[Bruce Benjamin]

I received a Beall from Lee Valley a few days ago. It operates erratically, and I haven't taken the time to figure out what's happening and contact LV or Beall about it. One thing is when I "zero" it it doesn't read zero. Another is it's difficult to turn it off. Probably has the earlier model switches.
The size could be an issue. It fits on a fully raised 10" tablesaw blade with the table insert in place, but with no room to spare. On a 14" Delta bandsaw, the weight of the Beall causes the blade to move downward until the Beall is resting on the tabletop.
I plan to contact Beall to discuss the problems - I haven't yet, so don't take this information too negatively. It appears to give accurate readings.

As I have responded to Brent, it sounds like you may have received one of the first gauges with the less-than-perfect buttons. But it may also be that you just aren't keeping the gauge perfectly steady when you zero it. Have you got a chance to call J.R. Beall yet?

If it fits on the TS blade, you don't need any room to spare. If you have a right tilt, put it on the left side of the blade. If it's a left tilt it goes on the right side of the blade. You should have the blade all the way up when you set the angle with either gauge. The Beall is only slightly larger than the Wixey.

I'm not sure how the weight of the Beall is flexing your BS blade. It doesn't really weigh much so the only thing I can guess is that your blade has very little tension on it. It only weighs maybe a few ounces. It shouldn't move your blade at all. Let us know how this works out.

Bruce

[Brent Dowell]

How did you determine that it was the gauge that was off and not the blade? Bruce

Ahh, Perhaps I wasn't clear. I've recently moved, and with the distance and potential rough treatment, I wasn't exactly sure how well setup my saw is.

I used the tiltbox to measure the 90 and 45 degree angles relative to the table. I assume the tilt box is accurate, and was pleased that my blade was still showing exactly 90 degress (0.00) at the 90 degree tilt stop and that at the 45 degree tilt stop, I was only off by about .1.

It's been a while since I tuned up the saw, so I wasn't sure it would still be on.

I know I should 'double check' my angle measures on the saw, but I'll admit that some times, if it's not totally critical, I'll just trust the stops for the 90 and 45....

[Bruce Benjamin]

The saw just went through a move and it's still that close? That's pretty good! What kind of saw do you have? I have a General Int. 50-185 contractor saw that I've modified by putting it on a very large and heavy mobile base, along with a built in router table. I've rolled it around my garage shop enough to probably add up to a half a mile but so far it's still dead-on accurate. But I doubt that it would be after being loaded and unloaded in a moving van. Sounds like a good reason not to move. ;)

I never check my saw for 90 degrees before using it. I just crank it there and know it's good. Well, I used to check it but I haven't for a while. I checked it with the new gauges and it confirmed that it's still right there. But I also keep up with keeping the dust out of the moving trunnion parts. I've heard that a little dust build up on the 45 and 90 stops can throw them off.

Bruce

[Robert Mickley]

Jason, thats a good way to explain it and I agree with you. I'll change my previous posts to reflect it and then claim you copied me...

I'm sure glad Jason cleared it up, I never was very good at conveying thoughts in type. I saw your first response to me and figured I was going to make my brain hurt trying to explain it :D

[Jules Dominguez]

As I have responded to Brent, it sounds like you may have received one of the first gauges with the less-than-perfect buttons. But it may also be that you just aren't keeping the gauge perfectly steady when you zero it. Have you got a chance to call J.R. Beall yet?

If it fits on the TS blade, you don't need any room to spare. If you have a right tilt, put it on the left side of the blade. If it's a left tilt it goes on the right side of the blade. You should have the blade all the way up when you set the angle with either gauge. The Beall is only slightly larger than the Wixey.

I'm not sure how the weight of the Beall is flexing your BS blade. It doesn't really weigh much so the only thing I can guess is that your blade has very little tension on it. It only weighs maybe a few ounces. It shouldn't move your blade at all. Let us know how this works out.

Bruce
Bruce, no, I haven't called Beall yet.
I checked the bandsaw with a 1/4" blade, fully tensioned, on the saw. It doesn't "flex" the blade. What happens is the blade is pulled downward in it's normal cutting direction by the weight of the Beall. Obviously it stops when the Beall hits the tabletop, but this could affect the accuracy of the reading. The Beall weighs 7 oz. on my wife's kitchen scale, which is almost half a pound.
I know which side of the tablesaw to put the Beall on. My comment regarding the size of the Beall was meant to imply that it might not be usable on a smaller surface.
It's possible that I might not have held the Beall quite steady as I zeroed it. I'll post again after I talk to Beall and hopefully get a replacement.

[glenn bradley]

That's OK Allen. Yours probably works $8.01 better than the ones on sale.

[Brent Dowell]

It's a Grizzly 1023Z. When I got it, it had been through a heck of a shipping nightmare (Like most grizzly items , but they always seem to take a licking and keep on ticking).

I bought a nice little dial indicator thingy and a reference plate to use in place of the blade for setup and spent quite a bit of time going through the initial alignment, i.e. shimming the corners of the saw on the cabinet etc. to make sure everything was as close to perfect as I could get it. Making sure the fence was parallel, the saw stops were on etc...

Don't get me wrong, it was pretty good and close, and all I added were some thin shims here and there.

When I moved, I basically just took the rails off and slapped it onto an appliance dolly and wheeled it up into the pickup truck (with the help of a little winch). Dont even ask about unloading!

And so far, it all seems to be pretty darn close. Now if I could only clear up some room to actually use the durn thing!

[Brent Dowell]

Maybe you could use a magnet or something on the other side of the bandsaw to keep the wheels from turning? I plan on using this idea on my bandsaw soon, but I think I might use a 3/4 inch blade. It's got a little more mass, and I use a higher tension on it. I'm thinking that might give me a more accurate reading in order to zero out the table.

[Jules Dominguez]

Maybe you could use a magnet or something on the other side of the bandsaw to keep the wheels from turning? I plan on using this idea on my bandsaw soon, but I think I might use a 3/4 inch blade. It's got a little more mass, and I use a higher tension on it. I'm thinking that might give me a more accurate reading in order to zero out the table.

Good point, Brent! I guess it would have occurred to me sooner or later to block the blade or one of the wheels. I just did a quick check of the Beall when it arived because I was in the middle of another project, and didn't spend much time trying to figure out how to make it work. I'll write that one off as one more senior moment. At any rate, it's good for folks to know that that may be a necessary step in using the Beall on a bandsaw. The Beall did attach itself to the small blade, which surprised me a little. Another thing to consider is that if the teeth of the blade aren't set uniformly, the Beall could be at a small angle to the blade and give an erroneous reading of blade-to-table angle. An engineers square may still be the best tool for the job.

[Minh Nguyen]

Bruce,

Thanks for the great review. I ended up ordered a Beall based on your review. If it wasn't for your review - I probably would have purchased a Wixey.

Minh

[Michael Weber]

Regardless of the accuracy, the higher resolution will allow a finer degree of adjustment. If cutting 45's and the the 4 miters don't quite close up, you could adjust in .05 steps as opposed to .1 steps regardless of the accuracy. Finer adjustability

[Bruce Benjamin]

Bruce,

Thanks for the great review. I ended up ordered a Beall based on your review. If it wasn't for your review - I probably would have purchased a Wixey.

Minh

Thanks, Minh. I'm glad it was useful to you. But I do want to make it clear to anyone, my goal was not to get everyone to buy the Beall over the Wixey. I just presented the information that I got when I compared the two gauges. I don't think anyone would be disappointed if they bought the Wixey. But I prefer to buy the one with the most features within a certain price range. Since I was able to return the Wixey and Woodcraft paid return postage it made it painless, financially speaking.

I'm hoping that others have the same good results that I have had. Please post what you think of yours when you get it and try it out.

Bruce

[Jason Garrett]

I got a Beall Tilt Box for Fathers' Day. Overall, I guess I'm a little underwhelmed.

- The box isn't flat -- it rocks a little bit on every surface I tried.

- I don't have a hard time pushing the Zero button, but sometimes it won't read 0.00 anyway. I find that I have to turn it off, turn it on, and hit Zero again to get it to really zero itself.

- The fact that it is accurate and repeatable to +- 0.1 but displays +- 0.05 makes it look less repeatable than it really is. That last digit isn't very meaningful.

- It barely fits on a 10" blade, and does not come close to fitting on an 8" blade. I guess I'll have to rely on a square for that saw. :(

As I reread the list, it sounds worse than it really is. The Tilt Box is a neat little device and I don't plan to return it, but I'd like it better if it was about 70% smaller.

67368
This is on my Ryobi BTS20 10" saw with the blade all the way up. Not bad
for a portable. :)

67369
Here it is on my Wards Powr-Kraft 8" saw. It doesn't come close to fitting under the teeth.

[Randy Klein]

- I don't have a hard time pushing the Zero button, but sometimes it won't read 0.00 anyway. I find that I have to turn it off, turn it on, and hit Zero again to get it to really zero itself.


I had that problem as well. But after reading the manual, I found out the zero button also switches between relative and absolute readings. As long as you know what funtion you're on, it should reliably zero out.

[Jason Garrett]

I had that problem as well. But after reading the manual, I found out the zero button also switches between relative and absolute readings. As long as you know what funtion you're on, it should reliably zero out.

I agree, it should. :)

[Richard Dooling]

Just read this review (thanks Bruce) and thought I would share with you that Hartville Tool Woodworking has the Wixey and the Beall angle guages for less than full price. Hartville is also offering free shipping on orders over $75.00.

Wixey (2" x 2") is selling for $29.00
Beall (2 3/8" x 2 3/8") is selling for $31.95

Going with the Beall as I had a bad experience with a Wixey digital caliper. Also finally getting a Starrett combination square because I am tired of questioning the older no name squares I have.