Maybe I should sell my LN planes......

[Fred Gross]

....on Ebay to cash in. The trend of LN planes going for more than what it would cost to get them new from LN directly continues. You would figure that somebody who is bidding online would use that online capability to do a little research to find the best price or, at a minumum, find out what they cost new.

[Matt Bickford]

I think the accepted reason for these trading above the price of new planes is the fact that they are much more expensive to buy new overseas.

[Mike Henderson]

I think the accepted reason for these trading above the price of new planes is the fact that they are much more expensive to buy new overseas.
At first glance, that doesn't seem to hold up. If you can buy an LN plane from an individual in the US, and pay for the international shipping, you could buy a new LN plane from LN or from Fine Tool Journal and pay for the international shipping. Or will those two not ship internationally?

Or is it that the buyer avoids the VAT and that saves enough to justify the extra price?

Mike

[Matt Bickford]

I believe there to be extra tax on anything bought new. It's avoided over ebay due to the fact that it's used...I think. If FTJ shipped overseas there would be taxes to pay, not just shipping and probably not just 6-7%.

This is why people will go to Germany to take delivery of their new Mercedes or BMW, drive it on the road long enough to make it used, and have it shipped back to the US...still ahead of the game.

[Zahid Naqvi]

starting to sound like a business opportunity for someone.

[Michael Schwartz]

Buy the plane, take a few shavings, put it right back in the box and sell it as a used handplane?

I guess it is perfectly legal.

[Andrew Homan]

This is why people will go to Germany to take delivery of their new Mercedes or BMW, drive it on the road long enough to make it used, and have it shipped back to the US...still ahead of the game.

FYI, I don't think that the above is totally accurate -- if you drive it in Germany, you will have to have paid the German VAT, which is several times more than sales tax in the U.S. If you buy something in Germany, keep it "unused", and leave the E.U. with it within a certain time frame, you can avoid the VAT. There are other reasons, however, that some people travel to Germany to buy cars (for instance: models not available in the U.S., and in the case of Mercedes, more "stripped down" models with manual transmission). On top of that, in order to register a car in many U.S. states, you have to pay sales tax at market value of the car unless you can prove that you already paid tax on it elsewhere. So, I guess there might be people who would rather pay 19% German VAT than 5 to 9% sales tax in the U.S., but I doubt it!

I agree with the above posters that the reason for some of the high auction prices on LN is because of overseas buyers avoiding tax, but I imagine that favorable exchange rates (for Europeans among others) are also playing a role.
-Andy

[Ken Werner]

I think it's just because some folks get a feeding frenzy on the bay. But also, alot of LN products sell for a slight discount from new. Doesn't make sense to me, but there's no accounting for people's buying stuff anymore.

[James Mittlefehldt]

I think it's just because some folks get a feeding frenzy on the bay. But also, alot of LN products sell for a slight discount from new. Doesn't make sense to me, but there's no accounting for people's buying stuff anymore.

LOL There never was Ken. I can recall being at an auction sale when I was much younger than I am now in the late sixties, and two people got in abidding war over a round mouth shovel. It was not an antique, it wasn't particularily new, but these two bid it up to a sale price of $24. in pre 1970 dollars, even the auctioneer shook his head when it was over. The buyer seemed happy with his purchase, though at the time you could get the same one new for $5 dollars.

[Jerry Palmer]

Remember Barnum.

[Matt Bickford]

Import tax is what I'm talking about. The few people I know who've done it still had to pay their state's sales tax. I don't know about the VAT. However, each has said that they've saved $2500-3500 on the total price of the same model offered domestically, enough for the plane and hotel.

[Larry Rose]

I agree with Ken just look on flea bay right now someone has bid $4120 on a Stanley #1 and the reserve still hasn't been met. Come on, I know they are collectable and desireable (I have one) but give me a break.

[Ken Werner]

Jim, I was once at an auction and a pair of saw horses sold for some foolish amount. What I couldn't figure was why - they were the crappy kind made of 2 x 4s and cheap metal brackets. Go figure.
Ken

[Terry Bigelow]

This blows my mind. I just started noticing this a month or two ago. I'm not sure I buy the whole overseas thing either. I am a habitual buyer there and I have seen many things get inflated for seemingly no reason. I think what makes this more obvious is the fact they(LN's) can be purchased new at a set price whereas old Stanley's and such vary on their worth. When I first started buying planes there I have to admit I got caught up in it as well. But after getting into a bidding war and winning at the last second then seeing the very same item come up a month, week, day or even hours later and go for a lower price taught me a lesson. The lesson is...THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ANOTHER ONE!!! Maybe not the extreme rare ones, but not many people are looking to buy those anyway. If you use the "watch this item" feature you can get an idea what the average going price is and look for one to come in "under the radar" and nab it. I just got a Stanley #608 (square side) for $78.00. It is dirty and a bit rusty but I have no problem fixing that. All the parts are there and in good shape. Before I bought that one I saw one at $300 with several hours to go! Even regular Bailey-style #8's go for in excess of $100. Go figure!

[Michael Schwartz]

$4120 for a handplane and people complain about the price tag on a Sawstop?

$4120 is enough to get you a really nice assortment of LN planes

Infact If I ever come accross any rare stanlys at a flea market they are going on Ebay and I am getting every Lie Nelson or Veritas plane I ever wanted.

[Clint Jones]

If you want to sell your LN's on ebay do it. If you dont understand why a mint No.1 is worth more the $4k who cares someone does (and more than just one person) The reason things like the No.1 are so expensive is you can not put a price tag on them because they are so rare. I can go out and buy any LN I want even from my own home. I can not just decide hey I want a mint plane in the box that has stood up this nice for 60 plus years and buy it right then. As for things going high at a local auction, it happens sometimes and sometimes the buyers are suckers and sometimes the guy who thinks that someone was ripped off and overpaid is the sucker. I was at an estate auction with a Bedrock 602 and me and another guy got to bidding and I had to pay $200 for it. Everyone there including the auctioneer thought we were nuts for paying that price. I believe anyone that lets a 602 sell for $200 is a sucker in my book.

[Matt Bickford]

From FineWoodworking.com:

"Lie Nielson tools are equally coveted and desired on this side of the pond, but they do not sell direct to us but refer us to their UK suppliers. Now here is the sting and if you want a laugh have a look at the UK website for Axminster Power Tool Centre for the costs.

A Lie Nielsen No 4 is £225.34 (GBP) which converts to $439.31!!!!!!

A 60 1/2 Block Plane is £112.67 (GBP) which converts to $219.70!!!!

And finally for real "ball busting" expense a LN No 8 Jointer Plane is £356.80 (GBP) which converts to $695.76!!!!!"



guy171504 (http://forums.taunton.com/dir-app/bbCard/profile.asp?webtag=fw-knots&uid=1274483005)

.

[Ian Smith]

I live in Sydney Australia and I have a bought several planes direct from Lie-Nielsen Toolworks in Maine. Even after you count the cost of shipping it still works out cheaper than I can buy a Lie-Nielsen plane here in Australia. The saving roughly equates to the Australian GST (GST stands for Goods and Services Tax and it is the Aussie version of VAT). The Australian GST is a 10% tax. Items shipped into Australia from overseas do not incur any GST, import duties or other taxes if they are valued at less than AUS$1000, about US$820 at the current exchange rate.

I think the high prices on eBay are just a result of people getting carried away in the heat of the moment or not knowing the true value of the item they are buying. As an example (non tool related), last week I sold a used child booster car seat on eBay for $90. I can go into a discount department store here in Australia and buy the same item for around $70. Strange but true.