Dust Collection in a basement

[Charles Wilson]

I am seriously considering having a workshop in the basement but one thing is stopping me - DUST. I am very health conscious and am concerned about the airborne dust that I am be exposed to.

I was just looking at Penn Industries cyclones and it is said that with a ramped up filter that it can get down to 1/2 micron (not all of it but quite a bit). I was also looking into getting an air scrubber (or 2) as well (maybe from JDS). I was also considering using a window as well an rigging up a fan to sit in it to help eliminate the rest of the dust by sucking it outside.

For those of you that have basement shops, what do you have for dust collection and how are the results that you get with your set up?

In setting up my shop now (b/c I could put it in a detached garage), I want to be as careful now as I can so I do not have health problems down the road.

It may be less glam, but I am considering my DC as my first major purchase.

Regards,
Chuck

[Matt Meiser]

Charles, I haven't seen any reviews on the newer Penn State stuff, but their older stuff generally wasn't considered to be among the best. Take a look at the Oneida and Clear Vue systems for comparison. I have an older Oneida component cyclone with a Jet blower. Oneida was great to work with and the construction quality is top-notch. Clear Vue owners are very happy as well.

To me, the best method is to blow the dust outside. However in a basement of a well sealed house, that may be problematic due to the fact you would be pulling air out of the house. In my detached shop it works fine.

Dust filters get a bad rap from some (they say that actually stir up the finest dust) but I think mine works well. I can't imagine you would need 2. This is also an item you can build rather than buy. Grainger is a good source for various sizes of filters, including the bag filters used by the commercial units. Blowers can be had cheap or free from an HVAC shop.

Last year I built a spray booth in my shop that has a large fan that blows outside. I've been using that quite a bit when I weld in my shop to suck out the smoke. I would suspect it would work well on the fine dust too. However, it move A LOT of air--you can hear a difference when the shop is closed up and a door is opened.

[Wilbur Pan]

As Matt said, you can't beat blowing the dust outside, if you can. I have a basement workshop, but I don't have any way of exhausting the air outside. So you have something to compare to, my basement shop is 20' x 10' x 7', and I have a JDS 750-ER air cleaner and the JDS 1.5 HP dust collector (not a cyclone). I didn't get a cyclone mainly because I don't have the ceiling height for one. I'm compensating for the reduced power of my system by moving my dust collector from machine to machine, and keeping the hose run very short (8' of 4" flex hose).

If you can't vent the dust outside, then I can't stress how important I think air cleaners are. I think that they are very underrated. The best approach to dust collection is to trap the dust at the point of origin. However, it appears that even with very powerful cyclone systems, this just isn't going to happen. Some dust is always going to make it out into the air. Therefore, you need some sort of backup plan to deal with this dust.

A common recommendation is to get an air cleaner with enough CFM to cycle the air in your workshop 6-10 times an hour. I aimed for a much higher number -- ideally 25 times an hour. At this rate, you'll be able to clear 99.99% of the dust in 30 minutes. Not as good as trapping it in the first place, but a heck of a lot better than not clearing it out of the room. To compare, at 6-10 exchanges per hour, it will take 1.5-2.5 hours to get to the same level. As an added bonus, it is very easy to increase the power of an air cleaner. All you have to do is buy another one.

Just to summarize:


Get the most powerful dust collector/cyclone system you can.
Realize that even with powerful cyclones, you can't trap all the dust.
Exhaust the dust outside if at all possible.
If you can't exhaust the dust outside, make sure you get enough air cleaning power.
If you have to choose between spending extra money on the dust collector/cyclone or the air cleaner, I would choose the air cleaner.

By the way, if you are feeling weird about making dust collection equipment your first major purchase, in my workshop I have a bandsaw, a lathe, a drill press, a 10" combination jointer/planer machine, and the dust collector and air cleaner. The dust collector and air cleaner were purchased new, and everything else was bought used, except the jointer/planer, since no one else seems to have one of these machines. So welcome to the club! :)

[Dick Rowe]

Charles,

In my basement shop I have a 17 year old Grizzly G1029 dust collector to which I added their canister top several years ago. It does a nice job collecting the bulk of the chips from the various major machines which I have connected with PVC ducting and blast gates.

I also have a 17 year old Penn State scrubber (single speed, no timer) which does an 'adequate' job getting the finer dust. Before I added this unit I would start sanding something with my ROS and within 2 minutes it was hard to see across the basement. After the scrubber was added the air was visibly cleaner when sanding, but I was still getting some dropout fine dust overnight.

I have recently made a few changes to my dust collection which made a major improvement. First, I added another air cleaner. I went with a 3 speed Steel City unit which I got primarily for the timer feature. I can leave it run after I finish in the shop for a selected interval and it turns itself off automatically. I was going to sell the old Penn State scrubber, but my basement is an odd shape, and one of the large nooks seemed to be a dust magnet, so I decided to move the Penn State unit in that area to see if it would help .. it did.

I also recently added a Fein vac which I directly hookup to my ROS and primary router. Between the two scrubbers and the Fein vac, the quality of my basement environment has improved 500%. I'm not sure if it was one thing or a combination of things I did, but I am extremely happy with the current state of fine dust collection in my basement shop.

One other thing related to the dust collector and bigger chips. Many years ago I had added a first stage unit .. one of those garbage can lid devices, which gets the big chunks before they get to your collector bag. It worked as advertised, but I felt it really cut down the performance of my Grizzly unit. As much as I tried to seal it, it never seemed the dust collector was as efficient as it was before adding the stage one device.

I recently ran across a first stage kit at Highland Woodworking which uses a fiber drum and is basically air tight. Since adding that, my Grizzly performs as well as it did new, and some of the machines at the far end of my duct runs now collect almost 100% of the chips, where they only got about 50% with the old garbage can separator in place.

I am confident that you can make your basement shop a much safer place to work if you put your mind to it.

[Dan Forman]

I have an Oneida Dust Gorilla in my basement shop.

The first thing to be prepared for is how much contradictory information there is out there related to DC. I did a lot of reading on Bill Pentz's site, as well as here and other woodworking forums. I was considering a Clear View, but the deisign was too tall for my basement. As it is, the Gorilla is an inch shy of the ceiling, sticking up between the ceilling joists.

Pentz claims that only his design (adopted by Clear View), and the Woodpecker model remove enough dust in the cyclone itself before the filter. My experience bears this out. While the Oneida does a good at collecting the dust, a lot more of it seems to get into the filter than for a Clear View, by the accounts I have heard. On the other hand, it is fairly quiet, and has a good reputation for reliability.

Pentz has a more stringent view of what is acceptable in terms of efficiency and performance, Oneida tends to downplay a lot of that. One is left wondering who to believe. For me, it ended up a moot point, because the Oneida was the only unit that would fit in my basement.

As for a scrubber, a recent woodworking magazine, who's name escapes me now, had a review of air scrubbers, with some counter intuitive results. It seems that some of the more powerful units kept the really fine dust circulating for longer than one of the less powerful. Probably worth tracking that issue down.

Dan

[Charles Wilson]

So, how would I exhaust the air to the outside of my house?

Reminder, this would be one of the many things that I would be doing to control dust in the shop.

Suggestions?

Chuck

[Andrew Williams]

You could create a blast-gated wye connection on the tube that leads to the filter. One leg goes to the filter, the other leg goes out through a basement window and exhausts to the exterior. In the summer months, use the exterior exhaust, but make sure to have another window open in the basement, otherwise the negative pressure in the basement will relieve itself via your chimney and bring all kinds of nasty stuff into the air down there. In the winter months, use the filter.

[Jim Becker]

While the Oneida does a good at collecting the dust, a lot more of it seems to get into the filter than for a Clear View, by the accounts I have heard.

The only time I have stuff in my Oneida system's filter is when I accidentally overfill the bin. Otherwise, there is almost no material in the fines collection canister. I clean it out about once a year at the same time I clean the filters.

[Art Mulder]

For those of you that have basement shops, what do you have for dust collection and how are the results that you get with your set up?

Charles, I have a basement shop. It is about 11x22 in size, so it is not huge.
I have a 2hp single bag DC. It is from Toolex, which is a Canadian Importer, so it is probably comparable to other Tai/Chi systems. I replaced the upper bag with a larger 1 micron bag. The lower bag is also replaced, with a plastic bag. I run a 4" PVC pipe along the side of my shop to my TS, Jointer, Planer, and Drillpress/Bandsaw.

I also have a small ceiling mounted Air Cleaner. (a cylindrical shaped Ridgid model)

Yes, I still get some dust, from using the router freehand, or from using the ROS. I've been thinking of saving up for a Fein or Festool vac to help control those situations. However, using the Jointer/Planer is completely dust free under my setup. The TS is almost dust free, but I don't have an overhead Dust guard, so I get some stuff thrown from the blade.

Obviously, I have no way of testing if the sub-micron stuff is still floating around. Still, On the whole I find this very satisfactory. I do NOT see any real impact at all on the amount of dust that shows up on the furniture in the rest of the house. (ie: if I take a 3 week break from ww'ing, and then get back into it, there is no difference at all in the amount of dust that shows up on the main floor furniture/shelves)


To me, the best method is to blow the dust outside. However in a basement of a well sealed house, that may be problematic due to the fact you would be pulling air out of the house.


So, how would I exhaust the air to the outside of my house?

One thing to remember is your location. Matt has a country house, so neighbours are not an issue. I live in the city, so my neighbour's house is about 6-10 feet from my basement shop window. I would therefore never consider blowing dust outside. Actually, that isn't quite true. If I had something like the ClearVue, where almost nothing gets to the filters, then I might think about it.

On the subject of cyclones... I've read that Clear Vue now have a cyclone that is a bit shorter, so it should fit into basement shops a bit easier. Worth checking out.

...art

ps: all that said, if money and space were not an issue, I probably would have looked into a clearvue cyclone. But for me, the single-bagger with upgraded bags on it, with my not-every-day hobby use, has proved to be quite sufficient.

[Gary Eneberg]

I have a Harbor Freight DC with Wynn filter and a Jet air scubber, they both do their jobs well. The biggest difference in the amount of dust I noticed was when I bought a Festool vac to attach to the sanders I use. Made a night and day difference.

Gary

[Don Morris]

I have a basement shop that is average 11' by 30'. I had a cloth 1100 cfm Jet dust collection unit that I recently converted to a cannister system. Big help! I also installed a ceiling mounted Jet Air filtration system that seems to do a pretty good job of clearing after I occassionally create a dust storm that my system doesn't prevent...happens occassionally...and must wait a brief period. I have 4" hoses connected to everything I can: TS, table mounted router which is connected to TS and enclosed, Bandsaw, jointer, 13" planer. Sort of a pain to switch the hoses on the dust collection unit to the components but I don't get a lot of complaints from LOML which was her concern. Note to SMC ROS users! You can get good dust collection with a ROS! I have a Bosch 3107 DVS. It has a connector to a 10' flexable hose that I have running to my (although-it-be noisy as hell) Sears dry vac. I swear it must get 90% of all the dust. And it increases the life of the sanding pads too.

[Scott Taylor]

What is the benefit to the cyclone DC over a regular DC? Everytime I have looked at one, I see the same HP and CFM ratings as regular DC's for less $$$. Plus they take up more space.

I'm not trynig to start a big DC argument here, cause I really am curious.

[Rob Blaustein]

I took an approach very similar to Wilbur's in my basement shop (similar dimensions to Wilbur's). I have a Jet 1200 unit modified with a Wynn cartridge filter and I just wheel it over a bit and attach it to different tools as needed. The stretch of flex tubing I use is short so there's not much static pressure loss and it does a nice job. When I use the tablesaw I hook it up to the base and an overarm guard whenever possible. Setting up a cyclone and ducting is a bit of an investment both financially and timewise, and my current setup let me get started in the shop. Maybe one day I'll go the cyclone and permanent ducting route, but this works for now. I also have a Jet air filter/blower device. And I often use a Festool circular saw with a shopvac hooked up to it.

[Dan Forman]

The only time I have stuff in my Oneida system's filter is when I accidentally overfill the bin. Otherwise, there is almost no material in the fines collection canister. I clean it out about once a year at the same time I clean the filters.

Jim---That's good to know, does that mean I have a leak somewhere that keeps the fines from settling out?

Dan

[Dan Forman]

What is the benefit to the cyclone DC over a regular DC? Everytime I have looked at one, I see the same HP and CFM ratings as regular DC's for less $$$. Plus they take up more space.

I'm not trynig to start a big DC argument here, cause I really am curious.

Scott---The main thing a cyclone does is to remove nearly all of the dust and chips BEFORE the air reaches the filter. This protects the filter from chips being imbedded in it, creating holes that will eventually let more dust through and back into the shop.

A non cyclone filter canister will have to be cleaned more frequently, which also leads to earlier breakdown.

A standard DC with cloth filter bags will not catch nearly as much of the really fine dust (most dangerous) as will a cyclone or a canister filter DC.

Cyclones typically have a more powerful motor than standard DC's (all 2 hp motors are not created equal) , can do a better job of collecting from a series of machines hooked up to a system of ductwork.

Be alert that many manufacturers will manipulate the statistics to make their product look more competetive. Read Bill Pentz's web page for a more thorough discussion.

I didn't want to get a cyclone initially, and didn't want to believe a lot of what was being said about dust collection because I didn't want to have to spend that much money. In the end, I decided that I didn't want to gamble on my health.

It appears that the canister filter non-cyclones still do a pretty good job though, and a lot of folks have the Harbor Freight 2 hp bag model, and put a Wynn's canister filter on it.

Dan

[Phil Thien]

I'm kinda amazed by the # of users that have pretty large DC's (even cyclones) and air scrubbers, that don't use anything on their ROS or free-hand router. Kinda defeats the entire purpose.

Me, I use a shop-vac w/ a separator on all my tools (have a 3" network w/ blast gates). I really have a very clean basement. Some dust, not as much as you'd think. And I don't even have an air scrubber.

[Craig D Peltier]

In this months Wood magazine at the end theres an article about basement dust filtration.

[Dave Lewis]

Charles:

I have a Penn Tempest cyclone that works well in my basement; installed about 1.5 yr. ago; moved into our new house January 2005. A few tips:

I attached two 2x6's to the concrete basement wall with Ramset fasteners. The cyclone was then lag screwed into those.
Plan your ductwork - Penn provides that service incl. with the purchase.
Plan the lift, prepare a temporary stand w/ 1/2" shims, and get help to lift the cyclone - it ain't light.
Most of my portable tools are Bosch, so I bought a 3 M (~ 10 ft.) long dust collection hose with a 2.5" discharge end (they have several models, so choose based on you needs); I would bet that other tool makers offer them as well. I have several 4" ports & 4"/2.5 reducers) that receive the hose.
I'm just a hobbiest - if this were my profession, I 'd upgrade from manual gates to those that open when machines are activated.
Regarding Penn State, the contact who provided input and followup was helpful; their reception staff were somewhat short and unprofessional when I called about outstanding delivery. If the Oneida cost (cylone and ductwork) is no more than 10% more, I'd go that route.
The only appreciable dust occurs when my wife sands w/o connecting the Bosch 3M hose.
Just my thoughts

[Phil Thien]

Jim---That's good to know, does that mean I have a leak somewhere that keeps the fines from settling out?

Dan

It could be a difference in the materials the two of you work with. MDF, for example, creates a larger percentage of fines than (for example) hardwood.