Confused about smoothing planes

[Tom Jones III]

I've been trying to decide on a smoothing plane to finish wood that has been milled flat already with power tools. I will do a little bit of flattening after gluing up a large panel (I use a junk chisel plane or scraper to cleanup glue squeeze out). I work only in hard woods. After searching through the forum, I'm more confused than before.

Down here in TX, good used tools are more fable than reality. I don't know enough about used planes to be able to get a good deal on ebay. This leaves me to buying something new.

From old posts on this forum I've gleaned several facts:
* #3 smoother is far superior to anything else
* #4 smoother is far superior to anything else (especially with HAF option)
* #4 1/2 smoother is far superior to anything else (especially with HAF option)
* Low angle (bevel up) #4 smoother is far superior to anything else
* Scraper plane (112 or 85) is far superior to anything else but difficult to learn

It seems for a hybrid woodworker whose main focus is productivity and quality that I need a good smoother and a jointer plane. I made a krenov style jointer and that is working well enough for now, although I got the mouth too wide. So I need to figure out what I am going to use for a smoother. Can anyone help clear up the confusion?

[Dean Lapinel]

Now you know you will get many right answers based on peoples preference and actual use. My answer is based on your use of hardwoods and:
"I will do a little bit of flattening after gluing up a large panel"

For the money and retention in value I would , without hesitation say the LN 5 1/2 with both angles would be perfect. Excellent weight, width, perfect size for flattening finish work for glued a up panel that is already pretty flat.

I don't have one of those so in this situation I'd be stuck with using my loopy :o

[Pam Niedermayer]

Hmmm, I'd say that good wooden planes, especially Japanese, are far superior to anything else.

Where is Texas are you? There's a chapter of the old tools group that has periodic sales around the state. One of the members is Dowd's Tools, and they're having a sale real soon now, would give you a chance to actually handle some:

21st Semi-Annual "One Old Sorehead & One Nice Guy" Vintage & Antique Tool Sale

SATURDAY, JUNE 2nd hours: 9:30 a.m. til 7:00 p.m.

SUNDAY, JUNE 3rd hours: 10:00 a.m. til 6:00 p.m. (Opening 2 hours earlier than ever before!)

LOCATION: 1400 WILLIAMS DRIVE
GARLAND, TEXAS 75042
(One block north of the intersection of Garland Rd/Hwy 78 and Miller Rd. - Mapsco 29G)

As always, FREE ADMISSION, FREE PARKING, & FREE COFFEE!

If we have your mailing address your flier will be on its way soon. It will be in the form of a yellow postcard this time as opposed to the folded flier you are accustomed to getting, so keep a close eye on your mailbox!

This is shaping up to be a terrific Tool Sale - one you will not want to miss!

If you have any questions, please feel free to call Lynn or Tracy at 972-271-TOOL (8665). PLEASE NOTE THAT OUR EMAIL ADDRESS HAS CHANGED TO dowdstools@tx.rr.com. You'll also find information about the Tool Sale by visiting our website at www.dowdstools.com. Just click the "About Us" button.

We are available year round for your old tool needs, with the exception of the week leading up to the Tool Sale.

We look forward to seeing you at the Tool Sale!

Best Regards,

Lynn and Tracy Dowd

[Dave Anderson NH]

Frustrating, isn't it Tom. One of the unfortunate facts of life about hand tool woodworkers is that if you gather 3 of them together you'll get 5 different opinions and they'll all waffle and qualify their statements in a dozen ways.:) This is primarily because we all work in different woods, were taught differently, work on a wide variety of projects, and have found something that works well for our own personal use.

The best advice I can give you is to make an effort to find someone close to you to act as a guide or a mentor. This isn't necessaily a long term proposition, though that would be ideal, a single tryout session would get you started on the way. Failing an "in person" mentor, pick someone whose judgement you trust and go with their advice. All of those "best choices" you mentioned will work and work well. There's going to be a learning curve no matter what choice you make, so don't develop the idea that you will purchase the ultimate solution and be home free. This is going to take a bit of practice and quite likely some less than stellar results along the way.

[Clint Jones]

Tom, I will have a couple of Stanley 4 1/2's for sale shortly. I usually sell them for around $75 and they will have no chip cracks repairs or suprises. Most planes I sell will be ready to use with just a light honing. If you go the new route I suggest a woodie by Steve Knight or the LV 4 1/2.

[Greg Cole]

Tom,
Not sure what experience you have with hand tools. Mine has only been from the last 12 months or so, well at least with good ones.
If you can't find someone locally to do as Dave mentioned, you're sort of stuck like I was.. learning one on one (you and the tool). I was fortunate enough to have bonus money "laying" around when I decided to let myself slide down the slope. But that entails tossing a few Franklins to the wind for each plane. Is there anyone in your area whom you might borrow a couple planes to test drive?
Maybe a Creeker or 2 in TX can help out? Hell, I'd send you my #4 for a test drive so long as ya make sure he comes home (not sure why, but my tools are he's & so is my truck, but the boat is a she?.. ah well.)
Seriously, if you strike out locally... I'd be willing to use my LN #4.... I won't take blame for you being pushed down the slope... the #4 will be to blame.

[Dean Lapinel]

I have survived Pam's suggestions for those wonderful wood planes so far but Pam forced me into a world of Japanese tools. I don't think there is a cure once the contagion hits so...beware...!

[Ron Brese]

Tom,

How far down the slope are you? You've asked a really large question. Dave gave some good advice, but there are a lots of ways of working so no one answer is going to fit for you. I think you have to look at a lot of factors such as what is the financial commitment you're willing to make to buy a good smoother. Some will say that the wood won't know the difference between a $100 dollar plane and a $3000 plane. In some instances this is true, however you the user will know the difference. When I'm doing a lot of smoothing of furniture parts I use a two plane approach. I knock down the high spots with a L-N #4 and then follow with an infill smoother for my final passes. This spreads the work over two tools and prolongs the time between sharpening. I actually look forward to changing over the to the heavier infill plane because it's mass is leverage and it works me less hard than the L-N plane. Hence the comment the wood may not know the difference but I sure do. If you are working full time in the your shop then better tools make the difference in how tired you are at the end of the day. If not then you may not be able to justify an infill. If that is the case then I would suggest that you start at the moderate end of the pricing scale and work up until you find where you comfortable. The middle of the road tools are not a gamble and can always be sold for a reasonble return. I guess the difference between what you pay and what you get when you sell them is the Price of Experience.

[Jim Becker]

"#X smoother is far superior to anything else" is missing the obligatory "for me" when someone says it to you... ;)

[Wilbur Pan]

I'll echo Pam's opinion about Japanese planes. But they do take some work and effort to get up and running, and if you are a "hybrid woodworker whose main focus is productivity and quality" this might not be the path you want to go.

When I first got started in hand tools, the best thing I had was a back door neighbor that knew what you could do with a properly set up hand plane. He knew about some local used tool markets/sales, and I just asked him to get me a used Stanley #4 that he would be happy with. It ran me about $40, and since then I've gotten into Japanese style planes.

But my point is that having someone who can personally show you what to do with a plane and tool sharpening is the best thing you can have. Lacking a neighbor, hopefully, there will be a woodworking club or a class you can take. That will be much much much more helpful in starting out in hand tools than deciding between a #3, #4, or #4 1/2. It looks like the Houston Woodcraft store has a class on sharpening (http://www.woodcraft.com/stores/store.aspx?id=315&nav=classes) that will be helpful, and I'm sure you'll be able to get leads on a used plane that way.

Of course, I can't help giving you a plane recommendation anyway. Get a used Stanley #4, take a class in how to set it up and use it, and use it until you run into the board that you can't smooth. Then worry about getting a high angle frog or whatever.

[Larry Rose]

Depending on the piece of wood you're working on any one of the might be "far superior" but of course you're hearing this from someone who has slid way too far down the slope. No hope for me now. Save your self.

[Tom Jones III]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback. Here is some more info. I currently have:
a LN low angle block that is amazing and a joy to use.
I made a krenov style #7 that does acceptable work but I would love to make/buy a nicer one.
I have 2 new junk planes, an Anant #4 that I bought to learn on knowing that I would probably turn it into a scrub plane. I also have a new Record #5. Both of the new planes I bought for $25. Both work well for rough work and I can use the Anant #4 as a smoother but I've never enjoyed using it and I've never had results that I have been happy with.

I just recently got that LN block plane and it opened my eyes to how nice a hand plane can be. That low angle block is a better smoother right out of the box than my Anant #4 that I have spent countless hours fettling.

I just received a gift certificate to my local ww'ing store where the owner, Steve, collects hand planes for a hobby. I can certainly ask him for advice, he has proven to be trustworthy over the years despite his obvious vested interest. I don't mind spending the $ for a LN, but I don't want to throw away any more $ on tools that I won't use.

BTW, Steve's store is the Cutting Edge (http://www.cuttingedgetools.com) in Houston. It is nice to shop in a well stocked family run store where you can trust the people you are dealing with and get a decent price.

[Wilbur Pan]

I just looked at the Cutting Edge's website. You're very lucky to have a resource like that close to you.

Definitely take their sharpening and hand plane classes. If you're budget conscious, see if the owner has an old Stanley to sell to you. He'll know you'll be coming back to buy a Lie-Nielsen #4 or #4 1/2 someday.

Or you can go and buy a Lie-Nielsen #4 or #4 1/2 from them right off the bat. I promise, you don't have to worry that it will be a "tool you won't use".

Or, you can get a Japanese plane. ;)

[Dean Lapinel]

Jim,

Why does your post keep moving (becoming the last post). It's a little annoying.

Dean

[Jim Becker]

Jim,

Why does your post keep moving (becoming the last post). It's a little annoying.

Dean

Yours is the last post in my listing. Check your display options as you may have it set to "threaded". Linear is what I use; Hybrid is a combination of threaded listing at the top and linear for the posts below.

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Dean Lapinel]

Got it Jim, you were right. Now I can actually see which post are the newest.

[Tom Hamilton]

Hi Tom: Well, you ask a great question and the answer is...as you have no doubt discerned, "whatever works for you."

I believe sharp and well tuned will supercede model number in most cases. If you would like to borrow a Bailey #4 in reasonably good fettle, it is just across the golf course from you. I have no immediate need, so it is a long term loan.

Let me know if you want to try it.

Best regards,

Tom, in Houston, with a loaner Stanley-Bailey #4 close by.

[Mark Singer]

Tom,
The reason woodworkers have so many planes is they can't decide which is really best... we are all looking for the perfect plane as surfers seek out the perfect wave..... every wood and condition is different. an adjustable smoother is a bit easier than a woodie with a wedge...so the LN 4 1/2 is agood one....the veritas bevel up smoother is good....ECE 711 reform is very good... I was at my wood supplier the other day and a guy there is really into the real pricy planes....he showed me a piece of bubinga he planed and it was full of tearout...he though it was good...it depends on choosing and using the right plane for the task....as you have seen from my posts , sometimes sanding is the only way.....and I always try to do what will produce the best results... You may end up with a few smoothers....a card scraper and some other stuff before its all over so just pick a good quality plane