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View Full Version : Unflattering article about Menard's.



Phil Thien
05-10-2007, 11:39 AM
http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/cur...essageID=13642 (http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/currentIssue/full_feature_story.asp?NewMessageID=13642)


"One involved a North Dakota Menards store manager. The manager’s wife had triplets that came early and required special attention at the University of Minnesota Medical Center. The manager spent a small fortune on plane fare commuting back and forth. He still worked 35 to 40 hours, but his contract required a minimum of 55 a week, so his weekly pay dropped from $1,000 to $500 or $600, Bropst says. “Two of the babies didn’t make it, and John (Menard) fined him $2,000 [out of his bonus] because he had to bury two of his kids and didn’t put in 55 hours those two weeks.”
The rest of the article isn't much better. Having serious doubts about handing over any more of my money.

I know, I know, you can find problems at HD and Lowes, too. But the guy had to bury two new borns for God's sake!

Al Willits
05-10-2007, 12:50 PM
Doesn't look like a good employee/employer relationship does it.

Seems the larger a company gets, the less personal it becomes....to bad.

Al

John Schreiber
05-10-2007, 1:06 PM
Great article. Thanks for posting that, it sounds a lot like Wal-Mart in the early days.

It said that the average Menards has less than half the number of employees as the average Home Depot or Lowes. That may be true, but I can find help at Menards whenever I need it and I can't at the other places. I guess that means Menards employees are motivated. Too bad they are motivated by an SOB like John Menard.

Cliff Rohrabacher
05-10-2007, 1:20 PM
I rather suspect that this article was inspired by either bad feelings or a retail competitor.

It's seems written in a rather one sided way, even condemning Menard for trying as many things as they could to earn income.

I'd not let what one journalist says influence me.

Phil Thien
05-10-2007, 10:26 PM
I rather suspect that this article was inspired by either bad feelings or a retail competitor.

It's seems written in a rather one sided way, even condemning Menard for trying as many things as they could to earn income.

I'd not let what one journalist says influence me.

One sided?

Menards has a lumber department manager. Said manager's daughter is confined to a wheel chair. She has problems navigating their house. He decides to build a new one.

Problem: Menards has a no-managers-may-build-new-houses policy (to prevent theft). They offer to "accomodate" him w/ a demotion and pay cut.

So he accepts, finds a contractor, and purchases materials from a Menard's competitor. Menard's finds out, and fires him.

The old adage that there are two sides to every story is certainly true. But I just can't imagine what the Mendard's side could be. Can you?

Matt Meiser
05-10-2007, 11:04 PM
Wow!!! Suprising after having spent more time in Menards this week than ever before combined.

David G Baker
05-10-2007, 11:33 PM
I skimmed the article and am a firm believer that everyone should believe everything they read, hear on radio and see on television because the people that own and operate the media would never tell the public anything that was not true. Yeah right!
The article reads like another urban legend in the making or maybe authored by the publicity department at HD.
I, like Matt, recently spent a lot of time and money at the new local Menard's and loved it. The store is making HD get a little better at stocking their shelves and addressing other complaints voiced on this and other forums.

Anthony Anderson
05-10-2007, 11:54 PM
This is surprising to me. I have had nothing but a good experience with Menards as a whole. You have to excuse the occassional salesperson with a grudge against the world, for whatever his excuse may be. I will continue to shop at Menards. This rumor, as I take it right now, will find it's way across the internet and, in time, will be proven or disproven. If it is proven then that would be enough to make me not want to give Menards my business. That leaves me with Lowe's,as I cannot stand to hardly go into Home Depot anymore. Lowe's has seemed to get a lot better lately, maybe they have learned an early, and profitable, lesson from Home Depot. BTW, Menards tends to have experienced tradespeople to head each department, and I have always found someone to help me without any problems. But if this article turns out to be true, which I highly doubt, this will cost Menards far more than they gained from the imposed fines. Employee moral will suffer along with declining cusomter loyalty, which plagues Home Depot. But I have never heard anything but good things about how good Menards treats their employees. Regards, Bill

Phil Thien
05-11-2007, 12:23 AM
I think it is great that readers here are skeptical of what they read/hear/see. Let me assure you, though, that the article appeared in "Milwaukee Magazine." This isn't some little fly-by-night magazine. While the circulation is limited, the magazine was started by the Quadracci family (of Quad Graphics fame, namely one of the largest printing companies in the world).

I think you can rest assured that they vetted the crap out of this piece.

The article is on the up and up. Shop there if you like. I will occasionally shop there for items I can't easily find elsewhere. But I won't rationalize it by telling myself the writer had an axe to grind or that the article was a hoax or something.

If that were the case then John Menard would own a nice, very large printing company in very short order.

Brian Elfert
05-11-2007, 8:36 AM
Menards is big where I live because we are the closest big market to corporate headquarters.

Someone I know owns a sign shop. He turned down a $35,000 order from Menards because John Menard is a notorious late payer. This guy said Menards often won't pay for stuff like this until they are threatened with legal action. (I assume Menards won't pay up front.)

I was suprised Menards didn't do all their sign business with one shop, but this guy said nobody wants to deal with them over the payment issues.

I wonder how they get the stores stocked? Maybe they pay for store stock quicker since they don't make money with an empty store.

Brian Elfert

Al Willits
05-11-2007, 9:04 AM
Does make one pause to wonder about Menard's and their business practices though, have to give this one some thought, but it could very well effect my decision to shop there.

fwiw we were at HD a couple of days ago and the wife remarked about how improved the layout and available merchandise was, she dragged me...er...I lovingly followed her though more garden shi...er..stuff than I care to, and did notice that it was well stocked and the plants all looked like they had been taken care of.
Also noticed that the staff was more than friendly and asked if we needed help numerous times, beasty remarked they were helpful to almost a fault.

I have to admit, it was a far cry from the old HD I'm so used to...maybe they are getting it together???

In fact, the guy in the returns dept noticed I was limping and asked if we'd like to check out there, instead of heading to the other side of the store where the check out lines were.
I have arthritis in my right foot and it was acting up.

Not sure about anybody else, but we were treated very well at our HD and will shop there again.

Al

Dan Gill
05-11-2007, 9:26 AM
The article didn't seem to condemn Menards for trying different ways of earning, but pointed them out to fill out background on the chain and on John Menard himself.

There are no Menard's stores in my region, but if even half of the things in that article are true, I wouldn't give my money to the man, no matter how good the prices or customer service are.

Every company has problems and shortcomings, but when the problems are a matter of policy, it's time to go elsewhere.

David G Baker
05-11-2007, 9:29 AM
Does make one pause to wonder about Menard's and their business practices though, have to give this one some thought, but it could very well effect my decision to shop there.

fwiw we were at HD a couple of days ago and the wife remarked about how improved the layout and available merchandise was, she dragged me...er...I lovingly followed her though more garden shi...er..stuff than I care to, and did notice that it was well stocked and the plants all looked like they had been taken care of.
Also noticed that the staff was more than friendly and asked if we needed help numerous times, beasty remarked they were helpful to almost a fault.

I have to admit, it was a far cry from the old HD I'm so used to...maybe they are getting it together???

In fact, the guy in the returns dept noticed I was limping and asked if we'd like to check out there, instead of heading to the other side of the store where the check out lines were.
I have arthritis in my right foot and it was acting up.

Not sure about anybody else, but we were treated very well at our HD and will shop there again.

Al
Al,
I noticed the same behavioral and shelf stock changes at HD when I shopped there three weeks ago. I shopped there on Tuesday of this week, things were back to the old ways. Few cashiers available, couldn't find several things because they were out of stock and the smiley/greety employees didn't exist. Must be the pep talks and threats from upper management wore off. The new Menard's is killing them. The parking lots at HD do not have the cars in them like they did prior to the Menard's opening and Menard's lot is well occupied any time I have been by it.
I shop at both of them because Lowe's is over 60 miles away.

Al Willits
05-11-2007, 9:50 AM
Maybe we need to find out when the employee meeting are and shop just after them??? :D

Might just be the store and how its run, we have been to several other HD's and they don't seem much better, seems customer service is lacking at most stores now days, no matter who they are.

Al

Fred Voorhees
05-11-2007, 8:53 PM
I'm sorry guys, but I have read....ad nauseum about the lack of service and salesman availability of Home Depot stores and I have to tell you, a lot of you must simply have bad examples because I have continued to shop at my local HD (Flemington,NJ) and plan to continue on doing so because I rarely have a problem while in the store. I haven't tracked down the person in every department, but in the ones that I have, I have found them to be helpful and eager to find what it is I am looking for. For example, just the other day, I was in there looking for the glazing points that have the little tabs on them to help in pushing them in. The hardware guy swore he had them and looked up and down the aisle for them. I wanted them to hold the guts in some picture frames that I had recently completed. Well, I was heading to a paint store after the HD visit because that is where I was going to get my glass cut. I told the hardware guy that I could get them there and quickly struck up another conversation with a female employee there that I have gotten to know. Don't you know that the hardware department guy continued to look for the points and found me and handed a package to me.

I like the fact that I can pick through the lumber selection and choose what I want to purchase - and it is usually half the price of some of the local lumber yards. I also garden and they have a heck of a selection of hostas and other plants that I enjoy. I usually do not search out help with things since I pretty much know the layout of the store and 90% of the time can find stuff on my own. I will agree that their hardwood ply will sometimes necessitate picking through, but as much as I have bought it from them.....only once did I get burned by a later warping sheet.

All in all, I have had a fairly decent shopping experience at HD and until I get crapped on a few times, I plan on continuing to shop there.

Mike Parzych
05-11-2007, 10:35 PM
I've bought lumber from a guy near Eau Claire, WI who has had quite a bit of contact with the Menard clan and his experience certainly verifies Menard as being exactly as he is portryaed in the article. He's even tried to screw the Amish people in the area he lives over lumber for his personal use. Cheap and mean.

Cliff Rohrabacher
05-12-2007, 8:41 AM
I think you can rest assured that they vetted the crap out of this piece.

Why could any one rest assured that any news paper vets the hell out of anything. I give you the New York Times. as an example of myths lies falsehoods repeated errors and plagiarism. News papers and TV outlets are not bastions of trustworthiness and reliability. They are businesses run for profit by fallible people who employ more fallible people. .


But I won't rationalize it by telling myself the writer had an axe to grind or that the article was a hoax or something.[/quote[
I'd not rationalize either but in this case you don't need to. The writer has only bad to say about one side and nothing else and down plays or omits the flip side of things for the other guys. One doesn't need more than simple logic to see blatant bias.

[quote[If that were the case then John Menard would own a nice, very large printing company in very short order.That is not how defamation lawsuits work - not by a long shot.. In fact they are brutally difficult cases to make especially if you are a public personality and Menard has made himself a public person.

To get to defamation the writer would have had to accuse him of actively engaging in bestiality or pedophilia or some such. Maybe an accusation of rampant criminal theft in his business practices might do it but then maybe not.

Per Swenson
05-12-2007, 9:12 AM
Two sides to every story.

Labor and Management.

I vote Labor.

Home Depot. In my local Creepo, where I have shopped

for-ever, I get treated like royalty. In every dept.

They even save me doughnuts.

But go to another one? I build all over North Jersey,

any other location I am a shoeless redneck off the melon

truck. No Shoes no service.

Hence my general disdain.

Same thing if I have to send somebody to my

local store. It seems they only appreciate my arrogant

and demanding ways in person.

Per

Phil Thien
05-12-2007, 11:17 AM
Why could any one rest assured that any news paper vets the hell out of anything. I give you the New York Times. as an example of myths lies falsehoods repeated errors and plagiarism. News papers and TV outlets are not bastions of trustworthiness and reliability. They are businesses run for profit by fallible people who employ more fallible people.

Good point. Magazines (this was a magazine, not a newspaper) routinely single-out the wealthiest person in the state and make outlandish accusations that they can't prove. Publishers love laying it all on the line and can't wait to have their day in court so they can demonstrate what idiots they are.


That is not how defamation lawsuits work - not by a long shot.. In fact they are brutally difficult cases to make especially if you are a public personality and Menard has made himself a public person.

To get to defamation the writer would have had to accuse him of actively engaging in bestiality or pedophilia or some such. Maybe an accusation of rampant criminal theft in his business practices might do it but then maybe not.

You and I are in total disagreement over what lengths a business will go to in order to protect its image.

Where there is one worth protecting (in my opinion).

Cliff Rohrabacher
05-12-2007, 12:53 PM
You and I are in total disagreement over what lengths a business will go to in order to protect its image.

Where there is one worth protecting (in my opinion).


That's OK, last I checked there was no rule you had to agree with me on anything. Soooo I still love you.

Phil Thien
05-12-2007, 4:06 PM
That's OK, last I checked there was no rule you had to agree with me on anything. Soooo I still love you.

After my sarcasm? Cliff, you're a better man than I!

Matt Meiser
05-12-2007, 4:23 PM
Right or wrong, did anyone else notice that there only seems to be 2-3 sources for this article?

I was in Menards and Home Depot both numerous times last week in Minneapolis (the Richfield stores, actually) helping my brother wire his garage. At Menards the various parts were actually where they belonged u n like Home Depot We were offered help at Menards numerous times. We did have to go to Home Depot to get a couple things we couldn't get at Menards. Both stores were busy--even on weekdays in the middle of the day. Menards actually paid real people to check us out--Home Depot had long lines at everything but the "check your own @#$% self out" lines.

Lowes is still my favorite. However the nearest one to that area of Minneapolis is something like 15 miles away.

Rich Engelhardt
05-13-2007, 8:43 AM
Hello,
Anyone else pick up on the number of years the employee's mentioned in the article have in at Menards?
SOB that he may be, the man is doing something right to retain employees for more than a year or two in a retail operation.

Having spent 25 years in that profession myself, I know how difficult it things like retaining employees can be.

Plus - staffing a retail operation of that size with only 50 some odd people says a great deal about how the employees themselves are.
That is absolutely an incredible number. When I was with Builder's Square in the mid 80's, we had a lot of difficulty running day to day with a compliment of 113. To do it with ~ half that number speaks volumes about the quality of employee/employee relations.

Absenteeism & "no shows" are a huge problem in retail. When someone "calls off", it means someone else has to do their job for them -and/or the salaried manager(s) have to cover it.
Inducing people to show up takes a lot more than a simple paycheck.

Phil,

Having serious doubts about handing over any more of my money.

I can understand why ,,but,,consider this. Jerk that Menard may be,,he made a quarter billion after taxes. He's set for several lifetimes. If the company folded it wouldn't hurt him a single bit.
The employees are the ones that would suffer.
Based on my 25 years in retail - I'm seeing a lot of quality employees by reading between the lines. If/when you shop at Menards, just keep in mind that your money is going to them, not Menard.

Jim King
05-13-2007, 9:47 AM
I have been a supplier to Menards off and on for over 20 years and my experience is that they drive a hard deal. Pay exactly on time and the same people I worked with 20 years ago in the corporate office were there last July when I visited them in Eau Claire.

I call up the head of whatever dept. and they answer the phone or call back. Almost unheard of in todays world.

If I had the capacity I would be dealing with them now but they have grown so large I am not able to keep up with the volume they need.

Brian Elfert
05-14-2007, 4:09 PM
I like Lowe's, but they are WAY overpriced. I still remember select studs at Menard's for $2.59 and $3.59 for the same thing at Lowe's. Everything seems to consistently be priced at 5% to 10% over the competition.

I only shop at Lowe's when I need something nobody else carries. It really is a moot point right now as the nearest Lowe's is 10 to 15 miles away and the nearest Menards and Home Depot are around 5 miles away.

If there was a Lowe's the same distance as HD/Menards I wouldn't shop there unless I was assured pricing had changed.

Brian Elfert