Need Glue Help for Slow-Setting Glue

[Keith Weber]

I tried to use the Search function, but all the short, common words like "long", "open", "time", and "glue" kicked out, leaving me everything but what I wanted.

I made up some case frames for some cabinets for my garage. Everything is dadoed and fits together like a puzzle. I'm at the point of gluing everything together, but I don't dare try this glue-up with my regular Titebond II or III glue. I need more open time to get everything together.

Any suggestions for an alternate glue?

It's hard to explain, but the way that everything is laid out doesn't really allow for a multi-session glue-up. I want to put it all together at once. I'll need up to 30 minutes to do that and I don't want the glue to start setting until it's all together and everything pulls itself square.

David Marks always refers to Plastic Resin Glue that he likes because of the long open time. I've never used anything like that, but it might work if I could get it locally.

Thanks for the help!

Keith

[Dick Rowe]

Keith,

I had a similar need a few years ago and ended up having the local Ace hardware store order DAP plastic resin glue for me. I couldn't find it stocked anywhere locally which is why the special order, but you may find it available in your area.

It comes in a one pound tub and is a powder that you mix with warm water.

30 minutes shouldn't be a problem for open time. I don't recall exactly but think it listed 1 or 2 hours on the package. The 'drawback' is that you really have to let it dry for 12 hours or more before it sets up.

Other guys on the board may have experience with other brangs, they will chime in on those.

[Mike Cutler]

Keith.

Don't forget about epoxy resins. You can have some fairly long working times with epoxy resins. Hour+ if needed.
I believe hide glue and resorcinol have long open times.
There is a lot of info on "glues" in the link below

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21822

[Rob Millard]

Keith,
I have had great success with liquid hide glue when doing complicated assemblies. I have since gone using hot hide glue with urea for the bulk of my assembly, but if faced with a difficult glue up I wouldn’t hesitate to use liquid hide glue ( sideboards are the most difficult thing I’ve glued together). If you go the liquid hide glue route, you’d be better off buying it from an online/mail order retailer, because it has a limited shelf life. I’ve seen bottles of it on hardware store shelves that were 2 years past their expiration date.
Rob Millard

[jim gossage]

another option is to assemble half of it without glue (i.e. dry fit), then glue the other pieces together as you add them onto the first half, and clamp as though everything was glued together. when dry, glue the remaining pieces and reclamp. i have used this approach several times with bookcases and tables, but its utility will depend on the exact fit of your piece.

[Phil Clark]

I have switched to epoxy whenever I need a long open time for complex glue-ups. The other advantage of epoxy over glue is that it gives with wood movement. It is really different to be able to relax while doing the glue-up for a change - keeps the heart beat steady.

[Paul Dwight]

I usually reach for liquid hide glue when I need a long open time. It's good stuff, but it's not very resistant to water. I would think about that before using it for garage cabinets.

A polyurethane glue like Gorilla Glue would work well, too. No problem with water resistance, but the foam-out can be a pain in the rear to deal with. The open time of this stuff varies somewhat according to the humidity level in your shop -- the more humid, the shorter the open time (moisture activates the curing process).

Good luck! -- Paul

[Mike Henderson]

Try System 3 T-88 epoxy available at most large wood places (maybe not the Borg). You have about an hour (temperature dependent) of assembly time but you will have to keep it in clamps for about 12 hours to allow it to set. It's also extremely strong and gap filling.

Mike

[Mike Cutler]

Mike.
I like T-88 because it's easier to meter out a small amount at a time, than mix a small amount accurately with the other system three products. I like the gap filling property also.

One trick I learned from someone here on the board was to cool the pot of "normal epoxy" with ice to increase pot life. The cold slows down the exothermic reaction. Works great. I've come back to pots after an hour that were still good to go.

[Al Willits]

A little off topic here, but epoxy was recommended, and I was looking at the West system for some slow drying glue.
It has the convenient dispensers and think it might be the way to go.

I was just wondering what the container life of the unmixed epoxy is?

Hate to buy a gallon of it and find out I had a week to use it...:eek:

Al

[Mike Henderson]

One trick I learned from someone here on the board was to cool the pot of "normal epoxy" with ice to increase pot life. The cold slows down the exothermic reaction. Works great. I've come back to pots after an hour that were still good to go.
That's a great idea - cooling the epoxy to get more time. Thanks for passing that along.

Mike

[Keith Weber]

Thanks for the replies guys! I'm about to hop on my bike and pick up some Pro-Glue Veneer Bond Dry Resin at WoodCraft. I'll give that a shot. Looks like a nice day for a ride!

Keith

[jim gossage]

A little off topic here, but epoxy was recommended, and I was looking at the West system for some slow drying glue.
It has the convenient dispensers and think it might be the way to go.

I was just wondering what the container life of the unmixed epoxy is?

Hate to buy a gallon of it and find out I had a week to use it...:eek:

Al

i bought some West epoxy about 5 years ago in the 1 qt container and it still works. i have kept the dispensers plugged with golf tees.

[Al Willits]

Thanks Jim, 5 year pot life will work just find.
Nice idea about the golf tee's...probably a good thing to use them at, as when I use them for holding a golf ball, the ball never goes where I want it to...gotta be the tee....right??? :D
Al

[Mike Langford]

........David Marks always refers to Plastic Resin Glue that he likes because of the long open time. I've never used anything like that, but it might work if I could get it locally.

Thanks for the help!

Keith


Keith, Here's a link to what "Da Man" himself recommends;
http://www.djmarks.com/stories/faq/3_Where_can_I_get_the_SlowSetting_Plastic_Resin_Gl ue_you_often_use_on_the_46688.asp
He list a few brands and their contact info......

[Al Willits]

Just got a email from West and they say their epoxy has a shelf life of mimimun 2 years..fwiw

Al...still long enough..:)

[Keith Weber]

Last night I gave the Pro Bond dry resin a shot. It was definitely a learning experience, however a good one.

Mixing the powder turned out to be a lot easier than I expected. I thought that it would be finicky to get exactly the right amount of water in the mix. I recommends mixing a ratio by weight, but the powder is a lot lighter than water and I didn't have a postal scale. I decided to wing it by guessing. Just by chance, my first shot turned out to be just about perfect. I used a ratio of 3 spoonfuls of powder (shook down, not heaping) to 2 spoonfuls of water. It literally takes seconds to mix some more glue (which is good, because I ran out during the first glue-up.)

The biggest problem that I had was getting the glue into the dadoes. It was taking me way too long with my little cheapie glue brush. With Tightbond, you can just zip along with the bottle and use the brush to spread it out. Now I'm scrambling, because my extra open time is rapidly being chewed up dipping and spreading.

I got the whole cabinet together in 25 minutes, then used 4 K-bodies to pull everything together. Luckily, the glue hadn't set yet, but I don't think that I had a great deal of extra time.

Cleaning up the squeeze-out turned out to be very easy with a wet rag. An old, wet toothbrush helped greatly.

I changed my technique a little on the second cabinet. This time, I taped two of the little glue brushes together to make a bigger brush. Secondly, I cleaned out an old, small Tightbond squeeze bottle and poured the mixed glue into it. That worked a lot better, but again, I ran out of glue half way through the glue-up since I think I used more glue with the bottle than I did with the dipping.

Overall, I think that the dry resin glue will be my glue of choice for things like this. I've just got to work on my application method a little. I'll have to mix more glue than I think I'll need and find something similar to the squeeze bottle that I used, but something that can be easily cleaned up and reused, or cheap enough to be discarded. I loved the extra open time to monkey around with getting things where I wanted them before the glue set.

Keith

[Syd Lorandeau]

Hi Kith,
I have the west system and found it to be unreal. Depending on the combo of epoxie and hardner you use you can get really out there on the time to cure.
The part I really love is you buy a pump system with the cans and just let them set on the shelf. I have not use the golf tees and can go down right now after several months sitting on the shelf and get great results, no cleanup. LOML saves me tin clean cans, pump, pump and you are ready to go.
Syd