Impressive Cabinet Joinery Technique

[Jeff Wright]

In building my wife's cabinet to hold her china painting supplies, I decided to try four kinds of assembly processes: glue, pocket screws, dominos, and especially impressive - Sommerfeld's offset tongue and groove bit set. I recently received Sommerfeld's redesigned bits that have eliminated a design limitation. The bits seem to be of high quality and create precise tongue and groove joints. The T&G joints are used to join the bottom to the front lower face frame, both sides to the face frame, as well as create a slot for the 1/4" back panel to slide into. Pocket screws were used to securely attach the bottom to the rail and both sides (this was in addition to the T&Gs). As can be seen from the photos, the T&Gs created perfect registration where the frame meets the floor and two sides. Very little sanding, if any, will be needed.

I would be interested in anyone who has used Sommerfeld's offset T&G system for building cabinets to provide your experience. Are there any limitations to the system if used for building kitchen cabinets? Because the cabinet snapped together so precisely, and alignment of parts were true and square, I'm not sure why this system isn't talked about by more woodworkers. It seems far superior to butt joints, dados and their challenges, pocket screws only, etc.

BTW, I used dominos to join the face frame parts. It was mortised and glued up in less than 20 minutes.

Note: The photos show the cabinet dry fitted only.

[Mike Henderson]

Jeff - would you talk more about the Sommerfeld's offset tongue and groove bit set and the design limitation that the new design fixed, please? And how would someone know if they were buying the new design instead of the old design?

Mike

[Jeff Wright]

Jeff - would you talk more about the Sommerfeld's offset tongue and groove bit set and the design limitation that the new design fixed, please? And how would someone know if they were buying the new design instead of the old design?

Mike

In the previous version, the tongue depth was less than the full 1/4" required to 'fill' the 1/4" deep groove. As a result, when multiple cabinets were built, a small difference in assumed measurements compounded into fairly large inaccuracies. There are some other threads on SMC that do a good job explaining the issue. Do a search using SOMMERFELD. I just bought my bits directly through Sommerfeld and first asked if they were corrected. The said yes and that they no longer have CMT make their bits for them. The bit set costs $109 and includes three bits, the tongue cutter, groover, and a bit to remove parts of the tongue where it would otherwise get in the way for assembly. I would suggest you order Sommerfeld's video on cabinet making with the T&G set. I think it's $9.95.

I have no affiliation with Sommerfeld.

[Chris Fetting]

I have the old CMT bits and have built 6 cabinets with this system. I love using this system because everything is always square and the joints are very strong. The only limitation I have noticed is I use my table saw to cut the groove rather than the bit because of excessive chip out.

[Jeff Wright]

I have the old CMT bits and have built 6 cabinets with this system. I love using this system because everything is always square and the joints are very strong. The only limitation I have noticed is I use my table saw to cut the groove rather than the bit because of excessive chip out.

Chris, I've had no chip out so far using the bits with A-1 Maple ply and poplar. Could be that the bits are still new. I love the fact that I don't have to change the height of the router table setting for either bit . . . just swap one out for the other and keep on going.

[Charles Jackson III]

Jeff that is some very nice work.

[Jeff Wright]

Jeff that is some very nice work.

Thanks Charles. It's more the tools than the man. I just tell them what to do.

[Mike Watts]

I like the Sommerfeld bit set also. The only problem I had was probably user error as when I adjusted their pocket hole jig to the depth they said I got blowout on the screw. I had to back it off quite a bit to prevent it. Still not sure why that happened but as I said it was probably my misreading the instructions.

[Jeff Wright]

I like the Sommerfeld bit set also. The only problem I had was probably user error as when I adjusted their pocket hole jig to the depth they said I got blowout on the screw. I had to back it off quite a bit to prevent it. Still not sure why that happened but as I said it was probably my misreading the instructions.

I am using the Kreg system instead of Sommerfeld's pocket hole device. I am ignoring the advice given in the DVD where Sommerfeld says to set the pocket hole jig to a one inch thick stock, and instead keeping it at the 3/4" setting. We'll see what happens today as I am about to glue it up and insert the screws!

[Larry Prince]

I would be interested in anyone who has used Sommerfeld's offset T&G system for building cabinets to provide your experience. Are there any limitations to the system if used for building kitchen cabinets? Because the cabinet snapped together so precisely, and alignment of parts were true and square, I'm not sure why this system isn't talked about by more woodworkers. It seems far superior to butt joints, dados and their challenges, pocket screws only, etc.

Jeff
I've been using the Sommerfeld system for almost two years. The initial problem with the incorrect tongue length created some problems initially but once I figured that out the system has worked perfectly.

I've made several kitchen sets with it, and have another underway right now. The major advantage for me is speed and ease of assembly, and the fact that I dont have to have an extra set of hands or a ton of clamps to get the parts together.

One caution: In the sommerfeld video is shown a groove at the top of the sides of base cabinets. This is used to hold those 45-degree corner blocks that really stiffen the assembly. However, if you're using wood-faced ply for your boxes and try to route that groove cross-grain it will tear the ply up badly, to the point that the piece becomes unusable. What I've done to forestall that is run the piece against the fence with the groove cutter taking only a "fat 1/64th" cut. This is essentially a scoring cut, and once made you can then set the fence back and cut the slot full depth without fear of tearing up your ply.

Sommerfeld recommends "back routing" this slot. I.e., running the piece from left to right instead of the normal right to left. I consider this to be far too dangerous an undertaking. The scoring cuts only take a minute or so to do (at two per cabinet box), eliminate the tearout, and is a far safer method for me.

You may be missing a bet by not pocket-screwing your frames together. We won't go into what I think of the Domino :D

I can't think of a single limitation to this system. Just be sure that on upper cabinets all your joints are well-fitted and tightly assembled because when Momma loads all her antique china into one cabinet the weight is all on the nail rails so you dont need them pulling apart.

As to why more people don't use it, it could be because it's advertised exclusively for kitchen cabinets, altho it certainly can be used in the construction of many types of furniture.

And just a tip: Today it was called to my attention that Kreg is making a "90 degree clamp" that can significantly speed up the attachment of cabinet sides to face frames. It's at Amazon.com as well as a lot of other places. My order goes in today. :)

[Mike Henderson]

And just a tip: Today it was called to my attention that Kreg is making a "90 degree clamp" that can significantly speed up the attachment of cabinet sides to face frames. It's at Amazon.com as well as a lot of other places. My order goes in today. :)
Larry- I went to Amazon but could not find anything like the 90* clamp. Would you include a pointer, please?

Mike

[Jeff Wright]

Jeff
I've been using the Sommerfeld system for almost two years. The initial problem with the incorrect tongue length created some problems initially but once I figured that out the system has worked perfectly.

Larry,

Can you describe the 90 degree clamp in more detail. Where are you ordering it from?

Also, thanks for your many great ideas using the offset T&G system. I just glued up my first cab and it went very well, except for one item. I used 3/4" setting on my Kreg jig and used 1.25" screws, and they busted through the outside of the finish stock. I double checked my settings and all were set to the 3/4" settings. I used the recommended screw length, made sure the drill bit collar stop was set to 3/4", but it still came through. It appears to me that the countersunk hole is way too deep . . . . only about a quarter inch or 3/8", maybe a half inch at most of would remaining in the bored side. Guess I should have made a test run in some scrap. But can you think of any reason the screw went through with all settings correctly set?

Also, do you secure the back panel by either glue or nails, or just slide it into the slot?

Thanks.

[Larry Prince]

Larry,

Can you describe the 90 degree clamp in more detail. Where are you ordering it from?

Also, thanks for your many great ideas using the offset T&G system. I just glued up my first cab and it went very well, except for one item. I used 3/4" setting on my Kreg jig and used 1.25" screws, and they busted through the outside of the finish stock. I double checked my settings and all were set to the 3/4" settings. I used the recommended screw length, made sure the drill bit collar stop was set to 3/4", but it still came through. It appears to me that the countersunk hole is way too deep . . . . only about a quarter inch or 3/8", maybe a half inch at most of would remaining in the bored side. Guess I should have made a test run in some scrap. But can you think of any reason the screw went through with all settings correctly set?

Also, do you secure the back panel by either glue or nails, or just slide it into the slot?

Thanks.

Jeff

The clamp has a pin that goes into one of your pocket holes and lets you clamp the side to the face frame. You can see it here:

http://www.kregtool.com/products/pht/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=72

Amazon's price on it is a couple bucks cheaper.

And yes there is a problem with the screws coming thru if you follow the instructions in the video. I think all you need to do is drill the hole shallower and all will be well, but I'm not near the shop so test your setup and adjust it til it works right.

OLD BUSINESS: With regard to that diagonal corner cabinet video, recovering it turned out to be a piece of cake and you can view or download it at

http://rcww.homeip.net/CornerCabinet

It's slightly over 2 megs in size and will open in Windows Media Player. It's best viewed in full screen mode. It may raise more questions than it answers and if so I'll be happy to try to expand on it.

The back panels: Originally they were just slipped into the slots. But since 1/4 ply is no longer 1/4" thick the panels tended to rattle a bit. To stop that I just put a short nail in each corner of the panels with a pin nailer. 1/2" pin is all you need.

[Larry Prince]

Larry- I went to Amazon but could not find anything like the 90* clamp. Would you include a pointer, please?

Mike


Mike

I don't know if this abnormally long link will work properly but if it doesnt just go to amazon.com and search for "kreg clamp" without the quotes. The right angle clamp is one of the first to come up on the results page.

http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-RAC-Right-Angle-Clamp/dp/B00009OLD3/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4766977-7003169?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1178562996&sr=8-1

[Jeff Wright]

Jeff

The clamp has a pin that goes into one of your pocket holes and lets you clamp the side to the face frame. You can see it here:

http://www.kregtool.com/products/pht/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=72

Amazon's price on it is a couple bucks cheaper.

Larry, yes . . . I already have one of these.

And yes there is a problem with the screws coming thru if you follow the instructions in the video. I think all you need to do is drill the hole shallower and all will be well, but I'm not near the shop so test your setup and adjust it til it works right.

I called Kreg and they never heard of the problem (????). They double checked how I had my jig set up and I made no mistakes that they could tell. In the future, I'll just be a bit smarter and bore a test hole. No real big issue as the holes were small enough to disappear once sanded.

OLD BUSINESS: With regard to that diagonal corner cabinet video, recovering it turned out to be a piece of cake and you can view or download it at

http://rcww.homeip.net/CornerCabinet

It's slightly over 2 megs in size and will open in Windows Media Player. It's best viewed in full screen mode. It may raise more questions than it answers and if so I'll be happy to try to expand on it.

Great video work. Is that another one of your talents?? You may get a call from me soon on building that cabinet. Looks outstanding.

The back panels: Originally they were just slipped into the slots. But since 1/4 ply is no longer 1/4" thick the panels tended to rattle a bit. To stop that I just put a short nail in each corner of the panels with a pin nailer. 1/2" pin is all you need.

Then I assume you did not glue them at all. At your suggestion, I will pin the panel with my new Grex pin nailer!!!

Thanks again for your info; it's a great help.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike

I don't know if this abnormally long link will work properly but if it doesnt just go to amazon.com and search for "kreg clamp" without the quotes. The right angle clamp is one of the first to come up on the results page.

http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-RAC-Right-Angle-Clamp/dp/B00009OLD3/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4766977-7003169?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1178562996&sr=8-1
The link worked fine - thanks. I just had something different in mind about what the clamp would be.

The video is great.

Mike

[Larry Prince]

Jeff

I called Kreg and they never heard of the problem (????). They double checked how I had my jig set up and I made no mistakes that they could tell. In the future, I'll just be a bit smarter and bore a test hole. No real big issue as the holes were small enough to disappear once sanded.

I know that the pilot portion of the CMT bit (as used by Marc Sommerfeld) is longer than the same part of the Kreg bit. This may be a factor in the problem, but either way, by adjusting the depth it should be easy to overcome.

Great video work. Is that another one of your talents?? You may get a call from me soon on building that cabinet. Looks outstanding.

Can't say as I have any talent in that direction at all. I just shot a series of pictures then used Microsoft's PhotoStory to assemble them into a slide show. PhotoStory is a freebie, and gives you some options for music, fade effects and captions.

If you have questions just ask. For me the key to the whole thing was realizing the shape of the face frame stiles. And I can't take credit for that either, as I found it in a picture on another forum.

I chose to cut dados in the sides to accept the cabinet floor because it made assembly much easier. Whether you do that or go with the Sommerfield method I would advise that accurate layout and cutting of the floor is a necessity to avoid stressing the assembly. I tried to stay within 1/64" or less and everything slipped together very easily. A cad program can be a real friend in determining the shape and dimensions for this part (and for the cabinet top).

If you do decide to go for a corner cabinet like this I'd be interested in hearing about your experience with it.

[Bill Neely]

I've used the system and I was impressed with it, I recommend the video because it covers hinges, drawer faces, etc as well.

If I remember correctly the problem with using the Kreg jig is that the 3/4" setting is for driving into a butt joint with 3/4" material. When the tongue is inserted into the groove what you have is 1/2" of material and need to make adjustments to suit.

[Al Navas]

Some additional information from a thread that is now a few months old (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51750&page=2&highlight=sommerfeld+tongue+groove). The Sommerfeld bits work great, and yield excellent results.


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[Jeff Wright]

A couple days ago I started learning SketchUp. There is just too much buzz over the program not to get involved! As a first practice piece, I created a drawing of a wall cabinet using the offset tonge and groove bits from Sommerfeld to show those who aren't familiar with them how the parts go together. The photos below show the cabinet, an exploded view of the rail and stile ogee door, and the tongue and groove that joins the cabinet side to the face frame stile. Hope the drawings help visualize how the system works.

[Rick Fouts]

I contacted Sommerfelds about a month ago about replacement bearings for the tounge and groove set. I haven't received them or heard anything from the company either. I"ve been a loyal customer for a lot of years, but in the past year, they have really disappointed me with their service.