Barn Sashes

[Roy Clarke]

I would like to build some barn sash windows for my new shed, but these are nowhere to be found in the UK. I have looked for information but only found a text only article on Epinions. Does anyone have, or know of build information with diagrams?

Thanks.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have searched in vain for a documented old school wood window. My wife's grandfather could build windows and stairs right on the job site using the same tools he used for framing - you name it. But today they are all made from vinyl or in a factory where all the pieces are cut by CAD machinery and it seems no one is interested in building windows the old way.

However, it is a perfectly valid lost art that really could do with a little rehabilitation.

[Justin James]

You might take a look at the Audel Carpenter's and Builder's Handbook from the 1920s; I seem to recall a description of the process (and diagrams?) there. If not, drop me a line and I'll try to find more references.

(I went ahead and looked. Find a copy of the December '84 issue of Fine Homebuilding; the article is "Making Window Sash".)

As you might guess, sashmaking--and stair making for that matter (if its a straight run) isn't really that difficult, and lots of folks have the skills. But you have to learn how to do it, and as Cliff pointed out there aren't a lot of folks doing it. If you don't have someone to teach you, one way you can learn is to buy an old window and reverse-engineer it.

One of my brothers specializes in restoring old Victorian places, and sometimes customers will want site-built sash, stairs, etc. That usually lasts right up to the point when they hear the cost, and suddenly the factory-made equivalent is acceptable! :D

[George Leicht]

Roy -
I think the biggest trick to making window sashes would be coming up with the right stock. Take a look at the sash in old homes. The clearest, straightest-grained lumber was used for sashes. It doesn't take much shrinkage or twist to make windows not work worth a durn.
George

[Justin James]

Cheyenne Sales has a couple articles on sashmaking with modern tools.

[Roy Clarke]

I can find information on the sashes themselves, but the bits I can't find are the way it is fitted in the frame, and how the water is kept out on the "tilt in" arrangement.

[fRED mCnEILL]

We reno' ed an old house for my daughter where she wanted to keep the old windows but wanted double pane glass. I modified the existing windows to take the double pane glass and added the modern weatherstripping to it (available at conversationtechnology.com). In addition I built two "new" windows by copying the old design with some minor changes. One of the changes was making the wood thicker to more easily accept double paned glass. The windows turned out well and survived the first winter with no problems. We live on the west coast so winters are wet.

Go to a Used building material yard where they sell old windows. Look at one for ideas or buy one to copy. The real ratty ones are quite cheap but you don't care whats its condition is.

They are not difficult to build and I was quite pleased at how mine turned out.

All new hardware is available for double hung windows as well.

Fred Mc.

[Justin James]

I can find information on the sashes themselves, but the bits I can't find are the way it is fitted in the frame, and how the water is kept out on the "tilt in" arrangement.

Now I'm wondering if we're talking about the same thing. Can you post a picture of what you mean? In the use I'm familiar with, "barn sash" is the term generally used for a fixed window in a shed or barn--quickly roughed in and non-opening--although the term is also used for sliding windows or windows in some casements. It almost sounds like what you are describing is a bottom-pivoted inward-opening window. If that is the case, I think Fred has the right idea--go find one at a salvage yard you can examine. If you can't find one, something like Audels would be your best bet for instructions.

The watertightness on these, such as it is, comes from the arrangement of the overlap at the top of the frame, and at the bottom of the sash. Typically, the frame and sash are half-rabbeted such that when closed the bottom of the sash is on the outside (overlapping the frame); the top of the frame is on the outside (overlapping the sash). On the sides, the frame is on the outside of the sash (again, both parts are half-rabbeted).

But they still leak!

[Roy Clarke]

http://www.betterbarns.com/thisProduct.asp?ProductID=5023

This is the sort of thing I am after. Reclaim yards in the UK are unlikely to have this style, and certainly not the size I need.

It seems I may have attributed more sophistication to these windows than they have, since I see on some web pages they were a cheapy onsite solution to filling a hole with glass.

Double glazing in the UK is a really good way to dispose of your money to no good purpose, it hardly ever gets down to freezing :):):)

[Daniel Rabinovitz]

Roy
Made 10 windows last year for a maple sugar syrup reduction building.
I purchased the Freud bits because of research as to which bits to buy.
A bench top mortiser was invaluable.
Window sizes are (two 30" x 30" 6 light, next to fire place - chimney) and (seven 30" x 40" 9 light, along walls) and (One 24" x 72" 14 light, over transom).
Had two routers to swap out the two bits.
Coping sled.
I can't remember more right now.
Daniel :)

[Roy Clarke]

That's great Daniel. Were they opening types? What I want to do is to have bottom hinge, tilt in at the top, and water to stay outside. I could experiment, but somebody has done it lots of times before.

[Justin James]

The picture helps a lot. On the sash, the half-rabbet is cut on the exterior on the sides and top, and on the interior on the bottom; the frame is just the opposite. On a window this size, I'd use two hinges at the bottom and two latches at the top. In the photo, you can see how the builder has installed stopblocks with dowels to limit the amount the window can open--these are a very good idea!

The best way to reduce water infiltration is to remember to close the window. A drip edge of metal or wood placed over the window on the exterior will also help. Basically, you want to divert away from the opening any water running down the wall. You could do it the quick and easy way with a piece of metal flashing, or build an awning, or some solution in-between. If the window fits well, that should eliminate water infiltration.

[Brian Boru]

Roy,
You are looking for a "hopper" style window.
A window which opens in (or sometimes out) at the top, and is hinged at the bottom sill and closes to the head usually with a spring assisted latch. Similar to an awning and casement window except that the hinge is located along the base.
Are you planning on making muntin strips ?

[glenn bradley]

http://www.cheyennesales.com/download/sash.pdf

and

http://www.cheyennesales.com/wsashref.htm

[Daniel Rabinovitz]

Roy
Yes, the window hinge at the bottom.
I don't know how they were installed, all I had to do was make the windows.
The glazing and installation was done by others.
So have to get up to Ohio to have a look at the installation.
I made the stiles with through mortises.
Oh, I said the the 30 x 30 were 6 lights - I lied - they are 4 light, my brain is working now.
Oh, wood was sassafras supplied by owner.
Daniel :)