Auto-Starting Shop Vacuums

[Matt Lentzner]

After some prodding by the LOML, I've decided to stop spraying sawdust all over my garage. After doing a little research I've found vacuums that auto-start with the tool from Fein (the best reputation), PC, and Bosch. I also think that Festool has their own version, but I don't know how it works with non-Festool tools.

What do you use? What size (gallons)? and what are your impressions?

Thanks in advance,

Matt

[glenn bradley]

On the low priced side:

I run a 6.5 HP (yeah, right), 16 gallon Ridgid that I got on sale for $90. It's got great suction and with the addition of a 'Clean Stream' filter and a 5 gallon seperator ahead of it, clogging is no problem. I only empty the vac about every 6th time I empty the seperator.

Sears, Woodcraft and others sell a switch for about $25 - $30 that turns your vac on when the tool comes on and then lets it run for about 15 seconds to clear the hose when you turn the tool off.

[Jamie Buxton]

The Festool vacuums work just fine with other tools. Mine runs: a DeWalt router, a DeWalt biscuit joiner, a Ryobi belt sander, a DeWalt 5" ROS, a Porter-Cable circular saw, and a Festool 6" ROS.

There's a decision to be made about what diameter of hose you need. A smaller hose is more flexible, so it works better with handheld tools that you're moving a lot. A larger hose doesn't choke on big debris if you're using it to pick up the floor or a construction site. That is, these tool-triggered vacs are different from the typical shop-vac.

[Rob Will]

On saws and other large cutting tools, I don't think shop vacs do a very good job of collecting sawdust.
Perhaps a portable DC with decent filters would actually "catch" more dust. More CFM is what you need, less noise is a nice side benefit.

Rob

[Greg Funk]

I've got a Fein (mini-turbo) and a Festool (CT-22). The Fein is a little quieter and rolls around easier. I also prefer the hose on the Fein. The Festool hose has a mind of its own and always wants to curl up in a ball. They both suck about the same.

Greg

[Jim Becker]

The Festool vacs (CT22 and CT33) are also variable speed so you can adjust performance to match the particular tool you are using; from Festool or any other vendor.

[Gary Curtis]

That variable suction speed Jim mentions is important. I believe only Festool has it. My Fein runs at constant speed and so the suction is too strong for sanding tools. They become 'glued' to the surface and so the dust gets trapped under the abrasive. It shortens the sandpaper life.

Also, look at the tools you plan to hook to the 'auto start' switch on the vacuum. There is an amp limitation for any tool used in conjunction with the Fein. Check to see you would be below that limit before buying.

Good luck.

Gary Curtis

[Todd Jensen]

I use a $20 switch from Sears that I plug the tool I'm using and the vacuum into. It comes on when I turn the tool on and runs for 3-5 seconds after shutoff to cleanout. Just one more option you might consider.

[Bruce Page]

I've got a Fein turbo III and like it a lot. It works great with my ROS sanders and I have never had it “glue” the sanders to the work piece. :confused:
BTW, the Fein suction is adjustable by backing off the hose connector from the hose a turn or two. There’s a little window in the connector that will let in air, thus reducing the vacuum.
The relative low noise level is also a great feature of the Fein.

[Gary Curtis]

[QUOTE= the Fein suction is adjustable by backing off the hose connector from the hose a turn or two. There’s a little window in the connector that will let in air, thus reducing the vacuum.
The relative low noise level is also a great feature of the Fein.[/QUOTE]

Bruce, I'm looking for a little window on my Fein Turbo II and I don't see it.

By the way the maximum suction creates a problem with Festool 9-hole random orb sanders. they just seem to hunker down to the wood being surfaced.

Gary C.:)

[Michael Lutz]

It may just be an issue with the Festool sanders. My Fein Turbo III works just fine with my PC 333VS sander. I doesn't get glued to the surface.

Mike

[Bruce Page]

Gary, each end of my Fein hose has two of these windows.

[Dan Clark]

It may just be an issue with the Festool sanders. My Fein Turbo III works just fine with my PC 333VS sander. I doesn't get glued to the surface.

Mike
It's not an "issue" with Festool sanders. It's just that the dust collection is so good on the Festool sanders that it can create a strong air movement that will suck the sander to the surface when using a powerful vac like the Festool CTs or Fein Turbos (equally fine vacs).

The Festool CT vac has an infinitely variable suction control that actually reduces the suction rather than allowing outside air to come in via the hose. When full suction is not necessary, you can dial it down which reduces the noise significantly. That said, in everyday use, I think that the Festool and Fein are pretty much equally effective.

The Festool does have advantages including the ability to store systainers on top (good for Festool users). I have my C12 systainer sitting on top of mine. Other attachments include a Hose Garage for portable hose storage, a handle, multiple hose hose holders, and a Boom Arm which keeps the hose and cords off the floor.

You can choose from multiple hoses up to 50mm in antistatic and standard. I have the 27mm and 36mm hose for mine. Finally, the CTs have a HEPA filter so that it releases virtually no dust back into the air.

I personally believe the Festool is a little better for my needs. That said, if I had a Fein vac and only needed one vac, I don't think I could justify getting the Festool. They are both great vacs and better than any other vac out there for less than $1,000. Or, as the saying goes...

They both SUCK! :D

Regards,

Dan.

[Greg Cole]

Not to hiijack or jump off topic, but a review of ROS's in FWW'ing (I think it was) rated a bunch of ROS sanders and their summary stated all removed more material in less time when hooked to a vac, not to mention to obvious reduction in air borne particles. Buy a good filter for anything vac not made for just collecting dust (ie Fein & Festool).
I use a good old screamingly loud shop-vac for my 5" ROS. I have all stationary (or at least big n heavy) tools piped to a Jet canister filter style dust collector (1200CK I think).

Greg

[Gary Curtis]

Gary, each end of my Fein hose has two of these windows.

Bruce, the Fein Turbo III has about a 2.5-inch hose. My Turbo II has a 1.5-inch hose and no bypass ports. Maybe the smaller motor doesn't warrant any vacuum control. Who knows?

But that's why Festool added a variable speed device to their vacuum units.

Gary

[Bruce Page]

Bruce, the Fein Turbo III has about a 2.5-inch hose. My Turbo II has a 1.5-inch hose and no bypass ports. Maybe the smaller motor doesn't warrant any vacuum control. Who knows?

But that's why Festool added a variable speed device to their vacuum units.

Gary
Gary, I guess that explains why you couldn’t find them. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I foolishly assumed that they would be the same. :o

[Brian Dormer]

The BIG problem with an auto-start vac is that the vac is drawing some current - AND the tool is drawing current. For a jig saw or such - no big deal. But even on a 20 amp circuit - you'll be hard pressed to run your TS and a vac off the same circuit without popping the breaker. Same with a big router or CMS. You're just trying to draw too many amps. Been there, done that.

I took the approach of putting a pneumatic foot switch on the vac. I step on an air bulb - the vac goes on. I make dust - let the vac suck everything up. Another tap with my foot and the vac is off. I run tools off one circuit and the vac (actually a 3/4hp DC) off another circuit.

I wanted a radio-control switch (like a garage door clicker) but Woodcraft didn't have them in stock - so I ended up with the pneumatic switch and (other than occasional tangles with the little air hose), I'm pretty happy with the setup.

[Dennis Reardon]

you could post a picture of that getup? My shop is so small I use a shopvac permanently mounted in the corner and a couple lengths of hoses. If I could mount one of those swithes on the wall beside the vac my life would be a lot easier.


Dennis

[Matt Lentzner]

Does anyone have or know anything about the Bosch? It has a lot of neat features (power management - no tripped breakers, auto cleaning filters), but I cannot find [i]anything[\i] about it online except the marketing info that Bosch puts out - usually not a good sign.

[Brian Dormer]

you could post a picture of that getup? My shop is so small I use a shopvac permanently mounted in the corner and a couple lengths of hoses. If I could mount one of those swithes on the wall beside the vac my life would be a lot easier.
Dennis

Dennis -
Take a look at this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-40-050-Lectric-Foot-Switch/dp/B00004TQG5/ref=pd_bbs_6/104-1673219-9525542?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1178384272&sr=8-6

That's the exact gizmo that I have. Although I haven't done it - you can supposedly extend the hose up to 100 feet (you supply the longer hose).

[Jason White]

I have the CT22 and it's great, but doesn't connect perfectly to "all" of my tools. It does connect perfectly to the Festool tools, however,

If I didn't own a single Festool machine, I'd go with the Fein. It's cheaper and, from what I hear, a wonderful dust collector/vacuum. Also quieter than a lot of cheap shop-vacs.

JW


After some prodding by the LOML, I've decided to stop spraying sawdust all over my garage. After doing a little research I've found vacuums that auto-start with the tool from Fein (the best reputation), PC, and Bosch. I also think that Festool has their own version, but I don't know how it works with non-Festool tools.

What do you use? What size (gallons)? and what are your impressions?

Thanks in advance,

Matt

[Gary Curtis]

If I didn't own a Fein, the Festool would be my top choice. The way Festool allows you to stack Systainers on top of the Vac is ingenious. They have really thought this stuff through. Even the way the support and fasten hoses puts everything else to shame.

I have a problem with my concerning my shop Vac. She prefers it to vacuum the house.

Gary Curtis

[Gary Curtis]

Matt, I'm sorry we more or less got off track with an answer to you. You were worried about current load for a vacuum and a power tool run through the auto-start connector.

According to the literature on my Fein Turbo II, the vacuum draws 9amps and can accommodate a 19 amp remote tool. I believe those numbers reflect start-up electric loads rather than constant. Most household circuits are 20 amp and I've never had difficulty tripping breakers with this equipment.

To check out something a little heavier, I plugged my brand new Milwaukee 5616 2.5hp Router into my vacuum. No problems. I was going to try the same thing with my 3.25hp DeWalt router, but it's mounted to a table.

The data sheets on this equipment will ease your concerns, and you can find them online if you want to investigate.

Gary Curtis

[Matt Meiser]

I have the Festool CT22 and love it. I use it with my Festool sander, a PC square pad sander, a PC circular saw, PC biscuit joiner, and Dewalt router. The stock hose fits all of the above tools perfectly and the auto start is great.

[Paul Dwight]

I have the Porter Cable vac and like it a lot. It has an auto-start switch that works perfectly with every tool I've tried, including a few times when I used my Festool circular saw to straight-line rip some 8/4 cherry. I also sometimes use the PC vac with my 14" bandsaw, and although I don't usually plug the BS in to the vac, it worked fine on the few occasions when I did.

I like the filter arrangement on the PC better than some other shop vacs. The PC's rectangular pleated paper filter sits up in the motor housing, instead of hanging down in the tank with all the dust and chips. The filter can be removed and replaced without ever opening the tank. It has a mechanism to agitate the filter pleats and knock off the cake, without removing the filter or opening the tank. Paper filter bags are fairly inexpensive and available at my local tool store.

On the down side, the PC is not quite as quiet as the Fein. The suction is OK but not great.

I also have a ShopVac ESP, one of their newer, quieter models. I have the ShopVac dedicated to my CMS until I get around to plumbing the CMS into my dust collection system. It lacks an auto-start feature but I use one of the Sears auto-start switches, which works fine. The ShopVac seems to have pretty good suction and I can walk into Lowes and buy paper filter bags at a good price any time I need them, which is convenient. It's a little louder than the PC, but overall it's a much nicer vacuum than I expected for the price. I've been thinking about buying another one to use for general cleanup, but the idea of owning -- and storing -- three shop vacs seems just wrong.

Hope this helps. -- Paul

[jason lambert]

I have both the Festool (CT-22) and Fein 9 gal (forget the model)
Short answer I would go with the Festool ct22 or ct33.

I like the Fein but it broke and required me to send it back to Fein for a whole new motor they said it couldn't handle sheet rock dust. Never had a issue with the Festool. The Fein did have a better stock hose it is a bit longer and wider than the Festool but the Festool you can get even a bigger hose and the hoses are antistatic. The Festool also has variable suction control but you will only use that with a sander and it rolls allot easer. Not sure what the person above is talking about unless he has a small Fein but my ct22 has big wheels and is close to the ground, my Fien everything is at the top and tends to tip it has small wheels and the hose pulls on the top of it. Also with the Festool you can get more accessories like the arm and the hose garage, grate for storage. The Fein I am never sure what to do with the hose when not in use.

Either one though is a grate vac though. I have had several and would stick with Fein and Festool.

[Dave Sabo]

WAP makes great triggered vacs too.

[Keith Outten]

I received a Woodcraft flyer in the mail yesterday, they have an I-Socket Vacuum Automator for $29.99 that has a 15 amp max load rating.

The Fein vacs have a bonus feature, they can be used for vacuum hold downs. You can make vacuum pucks and hold routing projects using the Fein vacs because the motor is cooled independently of the vacumm side.

.

[Charles McKinley]

No vents on my turbo 3 hose either, but it is a few years old now.

[Dan Clark]

The BIG problem with an auto-start vac is that the vac is drawing some current - AND the tool is drawing current. For a jig saw or such - no big deal. But even on a 20 amp circuit - you'll be hard pressed to run your TS and a vac off the same circuit without popping the breaker. Same with a big router or CMS. You're just trying to draw too many amps. Been there, done that.
...

Brian,

What vac are you using?

I've attached my Bosch 4410L SCMS to my Festool CT22. After months of using it like this, I've had only one instance of tripping the 15A breaker when autostarting the SCMS.

One issue with any power tool (including vacs) is that they use more current at startup. Some vacs start instantly when the tool starts. Result: max current draw simultaineously.

One advantage of the Festool vacs is that its autostart is delayed by a couple of seconds. I.e., when you hit the power switch on the tool, the tool starts and then a couple of seconds later the Festool Vac starts. The result is that the startup current for the tool and the vac does not occur at the same time.

The only current problem that I've had is when I use my Festool TS55 hooked to the Festool CT22 AND have a 750 watt work light on the same circuit. About 30% of the time, it will blow a 15A circuit breaker.

To solve this problem, I bought a flourescent work light that pumps about 600-700 watts of light but draws only 100 watts. Result: End of problem.

Regards,

Dan.

[glenn bradley]

An add-on to my previous post; I have the vac positioned along the wall midway in my 20x30 shop. The separator mounts in a shop made bracket above it and includes an arm for the hose and a box for all the other stuff.

As far as wheels go, I don't care. Bought a 25 foot anaconda of a hose that reaches everywhere I need. A sliding door/slot-cover thingy on the cuff allows suction control so my sander doesn't try to pick up my bench. A 2 1/2 to 1 1/4 hose then extends that reach even further for my sanders and such.

It was reasonably priced but it is a screamer in the noise department.

[Matt Lentzner]

One thing I've noticed is that the bags for these vacuums are not cheap! The PC bag is $3 a pop, the Fein $5, and the Festool $10. For those of you using these vacuums, does this become a substantial expense?

Thanks,

Matt

[Paul Dwight]

Matt, I agree the bags are not cheap. The price of the bags was one factor that made me buy the PC vacuum -- as you note, they aren't quite as expensive as Fein or Festool. I sometimes wish I had purchased the larger PC, just because the bags would be a little more cost effective (more cubic feet of dust per dollar).

I personally regard the bags as a necessary expense, though. If I'm running my the vac hooked to my 6" ROS, the suction drops noticeably within 30 minutes if I don't have a bag in the vacuum. Air flow and suction stay better much longer when using a bag. -- Paul

[Charles Wilson]

I have the Festool CT22 and love it. I use it with my Festool sander, a PC square pad sander, a PC circular saw, PC biscuit joiner, and Dewalt router. The stock hose fits all of the above tools perfectly and the auto start is great.

Matt,

Are you saying that the automatic start up still works with the PC circular saw? I thought that the automatic startup only worked with Festools b/c of the specialized hook-up that festool uses between the vac and the Festools.

Thanks,
Chuck

[Jim Becker]

Charles, the auto-start feature on the CT vac works with any electrical device you plug into the outlet. The vac hose is not involved.

[Matt Meiser]

Yes, as Jim says it will work with any tool. I suspect it would even work if you plugged in a lamp.

[Charles Wilson]

That is cool. I did not know that.

Thanks,
Chuck

[Brent Dowell]

Am I the only one here who has just put together a little switched outlet for this kind of purpose?

I've got a 4 outlet box on my router table setup with 2 outlets, and one of those switches with a big red indicator light.

I use my router table for more than just routering. Things like sanding, etc. I plug the shop vac and the router/sander/whatever into that outlet. When I turn the switch on, the tool and the vac come on together. The light let's you know the outlet is energized.

Sure, it doesn't have the automatic 15 second run to clear the hose, but....

Cheap and easy.....