Negative Hook Angle Blade for RAS

[Kevin Smith]

Over the past few months, I've read a number of different post which spoke to the benefits of utilizing a blade with a negative hook angle for a SCMS and/or a RAS. So…, I decided to take advantage of Amazon's current blade promotion and purchased a Freud LU91M010 blade for my RAS.

I am simply amazed as to the difference in the way the saw now performs.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to those earlier post. You have made a believer out of me!

[glenn bradley]

I love it when a plan comes together. Congrats. I wonder how well they do on non-sliders?

[Ted Miller]

Kevin, On my RAS I only use neg hook blades, they give you more control on feed of cut.

Glenn, Try a neg 5 hook on your SCMS and you will see a difference. Opps, sorry you said cms, I use the negs on my SCMS and they work very clean and smooth...

[Louis Brandt]

Kevin,
I've used my Craftsman RAS for many years, and I've never used a negative hook blade on it. I'd be interested to know just how the negative hook blade is better for it. I've never once had my saw try to "climb" the cut, nor have I ever had a problem with any crosscut that I've done with it (I don't use the RAS for ripping). I'd be interested in trying a negative hook blade, but I'd like to know a little more about why they're better for the RAS.
Louis

[Chris Friesen]

I love it when a plan comes together. Congrats. I wonder how well they do on non-sliders?

Just fine--a bit slower than blades with positive rake but less tendency to chip out the back.

They also work well on tablesaws when cutting plywood and melamine...less tendency to chip out.

Chris

[Kevin Smith]

Louis

My RAS is pretty much dedicated to cross-cut operations as well. I have however, made a couple of auxiliary tables for cutting miters and/or dados with this saw. So given that..., maybe it's better to say that I use the RAS in a "fixed" position. All of my cuts are in-line with the arm and the arm is always perpendicular to the fence. This allows me to align my saw and be pretty much assured of the accuracy and repeatability of each cut.

I'm somewhat surprised by your comment about not experiencing climb-cutting. Up until now, I have always experienced the effects of climb-cutting and have managed these tendencies by maintaining a stiff-arm on the saw. Using a blade with a negative hook angle will virtually eliminate the unintended feed - caused by the saw tooth grabbing the stock and forcing the saw carriage back toward you.

Improving the operational safety of the my RAS was all the motivation I needed to make this "minimal" investment. Please try it - you'll like it.

[Bruce Benjamin]

I don't use my RAS too much anymore except for the occasional quick cross cut and half laps with the Infinity Dadonator dado blade. But with a regular cross cut blade I have only experienced very slight tendency to, "Climb cut" and then only when the blade was getting dull or dirty. But with my old dado stack I had to use the stiff-arm method and really pay attention. Now with the Infinity dado stack with a negative hook it works very well. And I do recommend using a negative hook blade for all cuts just to be safer.

Bruce




I'm somewhat surprised by your comment about not experiencing climb-cutting. Up until now, I have always experienced the effects of climb-cutting and have managed these tendencies by maintaining a stiff-arm on the saw. Using a blade with a negative hook angle will virtually eliminate the unintended feed - caused by the saw tooth grabbing the stock and forcing the saw carriage back toward you.

[CPeter James]

I have the dent in my chin to testify as to what POSITIVE hook blades do in a slider. That was a mistake in purchasing the wrong blade. I replaced it with a negative hook blade and the difference is amazing! Both forrest and Ridge Carbide make a blade designed for the RAS/SCMS/CMS. Dewalt also makes a pretty good one in their 60 series.

CPeter

[Phil Pritchard]

I'd be interested to know just how the negative hook blade is better for it. I've never once had my saw try to "climb" the cut, nor have I ever had a problem with any crosscut that I've done with it
Then you've been fortunate. deWalt have supplied negative rake blades with their RASs in Europe for something like 30 years now because a negative rake blade will naturally tend to push the work piece bacwards towards the fence and downwards towards the table. A poistive rake blade on the other hand will try to pick up work and lift it off the table. Simple physics

Phil

[Rick Lizek]

Negative hook blades are also rated for cutting non-ferrous metals. I've cut miles of brass, aluminum, etc from 1/6" to 3" thick with such a blade while working as a Metalsmith. It doesn't dull a blade anymore than wood will. Actually resinous woods such as teak will dull a blade even faster from the minerals. No mater what a dull blade is just plain dangerous.

[Ted Miller]

Rick, I know that is one thing about my RAS blades, I keep them very clean. I use lotsa maple and cherry and they gum up my blades fast. So I am meticulous about cleaning them and keeping them very sharp.

For what its worth I have had the same Delta 12" RAS for some 16 years and yet to have a "climb" yet. I do not rip or 45s, just crosscuts at 90...

[Todd Jensen]

add another vote for the Forrest blades on the slider - literally glass smooth splinter free cuts on nearly everything, and the longest lasting blade I've used between sharpenings - I'd stack a dull Forrest blade against many of the manufacturer's new blades with a week or two of use on them. For the money and longevity, Freud is my #2 pick - I've found them to be surprisingly good for the price.
Glad you found the negative hook and like it!

[Bruce Benjamin]

Imagine trying to scoop sand towards you using your hands with your fingers straight out in front of you. You could get some but if you curved your fingers towards you you could grab a lot more sand with each scoop. Same thing with a saw blade. Only you shouldn't try to scoop sand with a saw blade. ;)

Bruce



Kevin,
I'd be interested in trying a negative hook blade, but I'd like to know a little more about why they're better for the RAS.
Louis

[Ed Jolin]

Maybe an insignificant point (?), but I noted while looking for a RAS blade recently, that the Forrest WWI appeared to have a +5 degree hook, yet the Chopmaster had a -5 degree hook. (for comparison, WWII has +20, if I'm reading it right). Both the WWI and CM are recommended for RAS by Forrest. With much discussion on negative hook for RAS, I found this interesting, and am not quite sure how it effects things overall, but from searching the forums, many recommend the WWI.

-ed

[Phil Pritchard]

They also work well on tablesaws when cutting plywood and melamine...less tendency to chip out.
But slightly more tendency for the work to lift and/or kickback

Phil

[CPeter James]

The dent in my chin says go with a negative hook. I too, used a RAS for 30 years but it was always grabby. Try it with a negative hook blade and tell us it isn't different.

CPeter

[Charles McCracken]

But slightly more tendency for the work to lift and/or kickback

Phil

I believe what you are referring to is actually the increase in feed resistance. Low or negative hook angles are the norm for plywood and laminates.