Glue-line on router table - version II

[Nissim Avrahami]

Good day

If you remember, I deleted all the pics after some of you thought that the operation is dangerous because, with this method the board is trapped between the Straight edge and the bit.

But, I did not give up on the method and looked for a safer way to do it because this method not only gives me nice glue-line but also, very consistent width along the board and I use it also for cabinet parts and especially for 45° frame members that consistent width is important.

The set-up went through few versions and I'm posting all the pics from the beginning (because I don't have others) but please refer only to the last part of the pics, those with the "fence".

as you will notice, I'm "shaving" only 0.1 mm (0.004") at every pass and the distance between the board and the "Fence" is 0.3 mm (0.012") which means that in case that "something goes wrong", the board can move laterally only 0.012".

For the push-back phenomena, I have two safety devices, first, I'm using strong grip push-blocks and second I always stand behind the Straight edge or behind the "Fence" so in any case I'm not there to "receive" it (and it does not look to me that "push-back" can happen with "freedom" of 0.012" of the board).

Regards
niki


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[Nissim Avrahami]

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Jointing%20on%20RT/J011.jpg


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That was the old set-up and it was just as a reference.
From here, I added a "Fence" that serves not only as a guard [as you can see, the bit is burried in the fence and only 0.012" are protruding through the fence (looking from above)]
but alsoas a "locator" to set the next board without the need to touch and rotate the bit again but only once, at the first set-up.


Till this pic the set-up is the same as above

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/avrahami/Jointing%20on%20router%20table/J01.jpg

[Nissim Avrahami]

And now...


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/avrahami/Jointing%20on%20router%20table/J03.jpg


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[Nissim Avrahami]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/avrahami/Jointing%20on%20router%20table/J12.jpg


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[Larry Rasmussen]

I have a 5' long router table and just clamp my 8' straight edge to it set to take off between 1/64th to 1/32nd of material. I was very hesitant to do this at first, it just seemed wrong. Frankly I think if you are using push blocks and stand to the side not much can go wrong. The boards come out perfectly matched and straight, absolutely 90 degrees. It really helps as you said on stuff that just has to be even in width. I have not had anything even begin to kick back. Anyway there are at least two people using this method.
Regards,
Larry Rasmussen

[John Lucas]

Niki,
I think the presentation and photos are very good, BUT why do you need to do something that is basically dangerous? It would be one thing if your method were the only way to achieve the right cut, but it isnt. I just dont get it.

[Matt Lentzner]

Is there a reason you don't use a split fence to do your edge jointing? As I understand it, that is the "industry standard" technique.

Matt

[Roland Chung]

Hi Niki,

Obviously, you've put a lot of thought and effort into this technique and your photos show how clean the glue lines are, but this really does seem like too much work to achieve something that we are getting when we use a split fence on a router table.

Are you familiar with the split fence technique that Matt and I mention? If you like, we could describe it more clearly. If you try it, you might like it and you would be jointing your edges using a much safer technique.

Roland

[Jim Becker]

Roland and others, I think that one of the aspects of Niki's technique is that he's working for not just a straight edge, but one that is parallel to the opposite edge. Please note, I'm not commenting here on the safety aspect, just what my observation is relative to what the technique provides functionally. I'm also concerned about the "trapped" aspect of this method relative to safety.

[Roland Chung]

he's working for not just a straight edge, but one that is parallel to the opposite edge.


I'm not sure what extra functionality he gains with this technique that you wouldn't have with a router table and fence set up properly for jointing. Between the title of his thread and the final pictures of his perfectly jointed boards, it just seems like Niki is just showing us an alternative way of jointing boards - with heavy duty countermeasures to compensate for the dangerous design of the workpiece being run between the fence and bit.

I hadn't read his previous version of this post so maybe I'm missing something. I'm not trying to be anything but helpful. If the wrong person tries to copy this setup and fails to do as good a job on the giant "featherboards" as Niki seems to have done-they could end up being injured.

RC

[Greg Mann]

It sure looks to me that Niki is doing glue line rips, not jointing. The first pass on an edge with split fences would be the jointing. This is the second step, more akin to planing, albeit on the edges rather than faces.

[Nissim Avrahami]

Thank you for your replies

Larry
It's nice to know that I'm not the only one using this method.
I don't remove 1/64" (0.0156") but only 0.004" every pass.
Usually one pass is enough but, if I hear "empty spaces", I make second pass.
I just "safetyfized" the method more but as you said, I never even had the beginning of kickback or pushback.

John Lucas
When you are saying "Basically dangerous", can you give me the worst scenario of what can happen if the wood is actually trapped between two fences and has a "freedom" of 0.012".

What other method I can use to achieve consistent (and when I say consistent, I mean ±0") width all along the jointed board.

Matt
The split fence method never worked good for me so I had to go to more "Idiot proof" method

Roland
I know the "split fence" method but as I said, it never worked for me.
It just looks too much work but actually, the initial set-up is very short and later, I don't have to touch and set the bit again and again, just to release the straight edge clamps, release two knobs, push the new board with the straight edge to the wooden fence, clamp the straight edge, lock the two knobs and go (it takes more time to write it then to do it)

Jim Becker
Thank you for your comment, you are absolutely correct, it's not only the straight edge that I can make with Straight edge and hand held router (as I posted long time ago) but it's also the consistent width along the board.

To all
There are many methods and procedures that are considered "Dangerous" to one but not to the other.
For example, I see the Grrriper as very dangerous tool but others (you probably remember the thread) are glorifying it or, any operation that involves the removal of the guard is big "no, no" according to the EU safety regulation and not only but Riving knife and "the blade must stop within 10 seconds" are mandatory in EU. Oh, long rip fence is also not permissible in EU.
So, I think that "Dangerous" has different view for different people.

Regards
niki

[Larry Rasmussen]

Ok a little smart ass in the title but I do feel like some of the answers were not well reasoned out. I do this without the super heavy feather boards and everything else. Just picture a straigh guide clamped to a router table say 4" away from the bit and you have my whole set up. I do run my regular fence up close enough to the the cutter so that the plexiglas overhang on it covers the bit. It does look wrong but there is no resistance. I only use pieces cut wide enough so I can keep push blocks on the wood past the bit. On a 4 foot board the entire length is againt my 8' guide, I've never gotten that straight of a cut and never been able to repeat widths precisely like this. I've used a split fence as needed since my first shaper 15-20 yrs ago then the router tables I started using 10-12 yrs ago. If you don't see that this techique is essentially about ripping to width with a router bit and not jointing or are not interested in ripping to width with bonus perfectly ready to glue edges then it would be of no interest. I hesitated to try it because it does seem wrong but it is a really smooth process. I suppose there is a reason that I wouldn't consider a piece of wood trapped in the same way between the table saw blade and rip fence, I just can't think of it now. Larry

[J.R. Rutter]

Wow, nice post and technique. You could make it even safer by enclosing the bit with a box that doubles as dust collection point. The bit only needs to stick out a tiny bit.

Long term, for a couple of hundred $$, you can get yourself a little 1/4 HP feeder and forget the feather boards and much of the setup agony. Set up the straight fence with a pivot point at one end, and clamp the other end at the correct distance per board. A solid carbide router bit works wonders, too.

I run my door sticking profiles with this basic setup; grooving, profiling, trimming to width all at once.

[Larry Rasmussen]

I took another look at you posting and will be able to incorporate some of your set up to be able to work on narrower boards. I think JR Rutter made an excellent point on enclosing the bit for better safety. That is what I am doing to a certain extent by using the stock fence moved up to within about 1/2" of the actual cut point, partial coverage on left and right and full protection from the top. I do like the idea of enclosing more of the bit with a purpose built box. Anyway Niki your posting made me think more critically about a technique I just started to use. Much appreciated.
Larry

[Nissim Avrahami]

Thank you

I'm only an amateur and I'm "jointing" only a few times a year so, Power Feeder is out of question for me, not only but "couple of hundred $$" becomes here in EU "Double couple of hundreds" (we have also "Euro prices", not only Euro hinges).

If you will have another look at the set-up, the wooden fence is covering the bit from above and the bit protrudes only 0.012" from the wooden fence so, I did not see any need to enclose the bit more than that.

The wooden fence acts also as a "Locator" to set the Straight edge for the next widths board and makes it so fast and easy, no set-up (except the initial set-up), no measuring just put the shims against the wooden fence, push the new board with the Straight edge to the fence, clamp it, set the feather boards and go.

niki

[J.R. Rutter]

Ah, now I see. Quite frankly, I looked at the first few pictures, then skipped to the commentary!

Nice setup with the featherboards coming through the fence - good job!