question about big sliders

[Jason Morgan]

I am currently daydreaming about a mojor upgrade in equipment to a large slider. What I am wondering is when would I wish I had an 8.5' table over a 5.5' table. (This may be the type of question that if I dont know already I dont have any business thinking about large sliding table saws, but ou have to start somewhere. I can see two instances. Straightlining uneven long stock (to which I would think that 8.5' is even a little limiting since most long stock would come 8' and longer) and breaking down plywood sheets (but how often do you need to do a full length rip of a sheet of plywood?)

Is there something Im missing? Am I thinking too "cabinet"-centric. If I were buiding a kitchen full of cabs, I dont know where I would ever need more than the occasional full length rip. and even at that the smaller 5.5' sliders can handle it with the standard rip fence.

Also, for you combo owners, do you really use your moulders?

Just wondering.

[Steve Rowe]

Jason,
I have a combo with a 2.8m (110") slider. I think some clarification is in order on slider table lengths and realistic cut capacities. The length provided by manufacturers is the length of the table. On my slider, I can pull the slider all the way forward and clear the scoring blade completely at the leading edge. I can push the slider all the way forward and the end of the table goes to approximately the centerline of the main blade. The actual cut length is reduced because you will need some mechanism to secure the piece to the slider either by clamping or using a fence. Realistically, you should take the length of the slider table and reduce it by approximately 1 foot to get an effective cut length. Hence, the 8.5 ft slider you are considering will only effectively rip about 7.5 ft.

I build primarily furniture so most of the rips I do on the slider are much less than 8 ft. I have the capacity when needed but don't use the full length all that much. I haven't heard of anyone who purchased a long slider that wished they had gone shorter. I have heard of those who purchased short sliders that wished they had gone longer. You are in a much better position to make that determination for yourself.

I do use the shaper on my combo quite a bit.
Steve

[Gary Curtis]

I agree with Steve. My slider gives me 38" in front of the blade, so I can't even completely crosscut a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

Most of my cuts are smaller, like Steve, but from time to time I wish I could ripcut a 6 or 7-footer.

Bear in mind that having a Euro Format saw is like parking an aircraft carrier in your garage. My local lumber sales company (Anderson Plywood in Culver City, CA) traded in their gorgeous Altendorf slider for a General 14" cabinet saw. The operators simply got tired of walking the distance from one side of the machine to the other.

My solution on length is the always trustworthy Festool ATF 55 with clamping guiderail.

Gary Curtis
Northern California

[Jay Brewer]

Hi Jason. The best advice I can give is get the longest slider you can fit in your space. Steve is right about slider length, some 8 footers will not clear the blade on an eight foot cut, meaning the panel still touches the back of the blade. Im pretty sure the Mini Max 8.5' clears the blade but still doesnt leave room for clamps on both ends, which you need for todays less than flat plywoods. You asked about full length rips in plywood, everyone works a little differently, but I always straight line my plywood before cutting out the pieces, If you are trusting the factory edge, your not getting the full benefit and accuracy out of the machine. My slider is 10.5' I ordered a 9', and when it went into production, they were out of 9', so they gave me the 10.5' for free, I am sure glad they did, its nice to have the extra length for clamps and staight lining 10' boards. If you go through alot of sheet goods the longer the better, if not, a 5.5 and something like the Festool saw will do just fine.

[Jim Becker]

I specifically wanted the 8.5' slider when I bought one to insure that I could straight-line longer solid stock held captive to the slider as well as work with sheet goods. The longer slider also has been handy in that I can leave the miter gage attached at the far end and still do conventional rips without removing it. It's just a flexibility thing. And I agree with Steve...having the length is nice; wishing for it later would be expensive. And honestly, my slider takes up no more effective room in my shop than my cabinet saw did outside of requiring a little more infeed/outfeed space at times which was easily accommodated by careful placement and planning.

[Cary Swoveland]

I used to have a Minimax 300 Smart combo with the 5.5' slider. The slider was long enough to cut 5'x5' sheets of Baltic Birch ply, but of course not long enough to cut 4'x8' sheets lengthwise. I mainly cut lumber and Baltic Birch ply, so the 5.5' slider was fine. In fact, I preferred it to the long slider because it cost less, took up less space and saved shoe leather walking around it.

My advice is to get a long slider (room permitting, of course) if you regularly need to process 4'x8' sheets, or to put straight edges on long boards. If you don't have that need, you can break down 4'x8' sheets with a circular saw and straightedge guide, and you can put a straight edge on a board the same way, or by ripping it with an attached guide that slides along the rip fence (e.g., a board with a straight edge).

If you don't need the long slider, think carefully about a combo versus separate machines. I know I'm in the minority, but not only do I not regret getting a long slider, but I went from a combo to separate machines, and have no regrets.

Cary

[Jason Morgan]

Thanks for all the replies, good information. However, I could buy a lot of nice separates for the ~12k it would cost for the combo. We are moving soon and it looks like we may get a place with a nice sized shop, hence the ability to "expand" my tool collection.


Thanks again.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Longer is better so long as you have the room in your shop to throw it. I'd consider moving other equipment and placing a saw on a diagonal to the room if that's what I had to do to get a longer table.


The advantages of a slider are so very many and great that trying to list 'em is hard. You will be more accurate and will repeat more precisely than you can on a conventional saw. You will find that you whole concept of jigs will change.

Sliders have a little bit of milling machine in them in that you can affix the work to the table or affix a jig to the table and the work to a jig and the result is that you have a flawlessly perfect system for creating repetitive accurate cuts every time while keeping all your body parts far from the blade. You will find that complex compound angle cuts are a breeze once you are set up.

You will use the sliding table for your ripping. The Rip fence will be less and less a part of how you think about cutting.
Consider the single phase machines. Felder offers a single phase option and their Hammer line is a really nice line of single phase equipment.

I say consider single phase because the better quality single phase motors are supremely strong running and you won't have to pay $300.00 more for a good converter AND you won't have to pay for electric burn while you have the saw off.

[Phil Pritchard]

I own an Altendorf F45 3.2metre (10ft) slider (i.e. I'm very, very biased) and I'd classify it pretty much the way Cliff does - a machine where you don't use the rip pfence nearly as much. What can a long slider which a short one can't? It can do a straight rip on an 8ft sheet of plywood/MDF/MFC (melamine)/acrylic/anything else which is truly straight rather than having to wonder if the mill edge you are using as a reference is OK. It will hold an 8 x 4 sheet in place whilst you rip without the need for any rollers, run off tables (they're part of the machine), etc. It is a true volume production machine - fast to use and very accurate. It can also straight line rip waney edge stock using a ripping shoe (up to the length of the carraige). But as others have said big sliders take up a lot of space and efficient use really takes a saw man and a helper

Phil