Lennox - Carrier

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Having the HVAC guys do bidding on my monster ancient house (it is really old). I've had a Carrier guy and a Lennox guy. I may get a Trane guy too.
One solution they are offering to my humidity issues is a whole house de-humidifier in the cellar (where the humidity is) to adjunct the water removal without hooking it to the AC systems.

April Air is the De humidifier company name.

Any one have experience with these names: Lennox or Carrier or April Air? I know they are the "brands" to buy, but does either have a factor over the other?

[Jim Becker]

My humidifier is AprilAire--they pretty much deal with humidity stuff. Lennox and Carrier are "old staples" in the HVAC realm.

[Dick Latshaw]

Any one have experience with these names: Lennox or Carrier or April Air? I know they are the "brands" to buy, but does either have a factor over the other?

The guy I talk to, when it comes to HVAC, runs the HVAC repair operation at the Universty of South Florida. He likes Trane and does not like Lennox.

[Al Willits]

Service....which one supplies better service, see which one will come out on the off hours.
Next warranty, both labor and parts.
Todays furnace AC combo's have so much electronics in them, the average person can't do much with them, Carrier has to many models that need to many different parts and Lennox has Lennox specific parts so getting them from other sources may be difficult.

fwiw my next furn/ac with be a rheem or ruud (same) unit.

Al

[Scott Brihn]

Cliff,

Regardless of which brand of equipment you choose it may make sense to make sure your technician is NATE Certified. This will help ensure that you get a quality installation. NATE is for HVAC what ASE is for automotive.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The guy I talk to, when it comes to HVAC, runs the HVAC repair operation at the Universty of South Florida. He likes Trane and does not like Lennox.

Did he say why?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Cliff,

Regardless of which brand of equipment you choose it may make sense to make sure your technician is NATE Certified. This will help ensure that you get a quality installation. NATE is for HVAC what ASE is for automotive.

Yah, the local Guys I have talked to so far are certified.

[Dennis Peacock]

Cliff,

Carrier is the #1 unit out there based on a few locations around here and around where I used to live. Just make sure you get the best SEER rating you can afford. Evergy is only going to get more expensive, so why not save all you can in "the long run".

Wait a minute...wasn't there a song call "long run"? Sheesh. :rolleyes:

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Cliff,

Carrier is the #1 unit

Yah they have a pretty good rep here too.



Just make sure you get the best SEER rating you can afford. Evergy is only going to get more expensive, so why not save all you can in "the long run". I don't trust seer ratings entirely. This because the rating is as to the machine when it is tested in a lab under conditions I will not duplicate.
Unico will certify their units as only up to the state standard of 13 yet hey have efficiencies that exceed Carrier's in the field. Coupled with Gufstason dual "O" ring leak tight ducting a Unico system is highly efficient. Unico only makes the air handlers though and many installers use the old school conventional ducting which loses as much as 40% through seam leaks. So if you have a really high Seer rated compressor and air handler combination you can still ruin all your efficiencies by using old school ducting which leaks lots of your cooled air into the attic or cellar.

I'm also talking to a Unico guy who uses Gufstason ducting and American Standard Compressors.

One of the issues I have is that I may lose all my cellar to ducting. That's not good. I have had several HVAC guys in who show up, act all encouraging, take a look around, make records, and never call back. Apparently, they hate old buildings cause they are so much more challenging.

American Standard is also Trane - A concept I find goofy and somewhat weird.

[W Craig Wilson]

In the interest of full disclosure: In my real life, I work for an HVAC equipment manufacturer/installer/servicer (http://www.york.com/products/unitary/)(whose products have not yet been mentioned in the thread).

If you use SEER as a guide to compare models, the ratings are very useful. The testing process is standardized to keep them that way. As you have found, the advantage of a high SEER rating for a unit may easily be negated when installed into a poorly design or constructed system.

Your list of possible brands all come from quality manufacturers who will have similar warranties and support histories - that's how they stay in business.

Your choice then really gets down to who will best serve your needs locally. Get the installer with the best local reputation for service and support. In your case, you may need to dig a bit - you really want a team that can deal with the your old house - a lot of experience with the gotcha's of retro-installation will save headaches for years to come.

[Al Willits]

I doubt they hate old buildings because there challenging, its all about profit, much easier to install a new unit in a building and be gone, than to spend a day playing with ductwork changes.
Monies in sales, not service.
Major changes on systems are usually done when the install crews are slow and they need fill work.

As far as NATE and ASE goes, neither grantee good workmanship. better to go with a older established company that has good references imho.

SEER ratings are what the unit is cabible of, if your ducting isn't up to handling the air flow, its not the AC's fault, it still is a rated unit and with the correct ducting/airflow, you should get very close to what the manufactors get.

Meeting whatever codes your state has are a must, but higher SEER ratings are going to depend on how much AC you use, extremly high ratings may not be worth the added exspense if you live in northern Minnesota, Southern states on the other hand have by far a greater AC season and higher SEER's are a must.

Not unusual to see 2 ton condensers with 3 ton or greater evaporators now to get the higher SEER rating, greater ductwork is usually needed to be able to pass the needed airflow requirements of the larger A-coil, rarely does a exsisting house have enough.
A good AC install tech should be able to tell ya whether your system is up to it or not.

Its a big investment, before making a decision, spend some time talking to neighbors, sales people, other techs, and even here... :)

Good luck.

Al

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

In the interest of full disclosure: In my real life, I work for an HVAC equipment manufacturer/installer/servicer (http://www.york.com/products/unitary/)(whose products have not yet been mentioned in the thread).

If you use SEER as a guide to compare models, the ratings are very useful. The testing process is standardized to keep them that way. As you have found, the advantage of a high SEER rating for a unit may easily be negated when installed into a poorly design or constructed system.

Your list of possible brands all come from quality manufacturers who will have similar warranties and support histories - that's how they stay in business.

Your choice then really gets down to who will best serve your needs locally. Get the installer with the best local reputation for service and support. In your case, you may need to dig a bit - you really want a team that can deal with the your old house - a lot of experience with the gotcha's of retro-installation will save headaches for years to come.

Thanks Craig. I have the guy I "think" I may use. He's a local guy from way back. He likes Unico And American Standard and he uses high performance expensive Gustafson ducting. I have inspected this stuff and it is indeed pretty darn cool. I think I could do as well with 6" PCV and maybe for cheaper too but I'd need to insulate the ducting and that may make the cost difference right there.

This local guy also figured a way to save me $12,000.00 or there about by installing one 4 - 5 ton unit instead of two units one conventional and one Unico.

EVERY other contractor I spoke to wants to go with two systems because the access to my old house if such a pain. That runs about Twelve-Gees a pop.

This guy wandered around with his associate for a few hours with me in the building and the associate offered up a way to run a large pipe from the cellar to the attic.
It'll work and even passed the "wife test" for aesthetics.

So if they price it out that way I may save a bundle - and maybe end up spending it on that fancy Gustafson Ducting. An elbow is $60.00 - - - OUCH

[Brian Elfert]

Make sure that any HVAC guy does a manual J or manual D calculation (I think those are the names.) to size your equipment properly.

A lot of HVAC guys tend to just guess based on other similiar houses or they oversize so you won't complain. The proper sizing of HVAC equipment is important so you are comfortable. AC is very important to size right, expecially in humid areas. Too big and it doesn't run often enough to remove humidity. Too small and the house won't cool on especially hot days.

Brian Elfert

[Al Willits]

Anyway to run a mini split for the attic?
Might save ya a bit on that $60 a elbow ducting they want to put in?

Al

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Anyway to run a mini split for the attic?
Might save ya a bit on that $60 a elbow ducting they want to put in?

Al

If I go with these guys the Attic will be Gustafson ducting and the cellar will be the leaky stuff every one else uses. I got some preliminary numbers today and the delta between the high tech ducts and the conventional stuff is about $2000 per floor depending on elbows needed.

That's not so much as I expected. Which almost tempts me to go with the snappy German stuff stuff all throughout except I want to AC the Cellar and parasite off it for the shop.

Of course I could easily run a power vent from the kitchen ( or simply open up the Unico Plenum and parasite off that directly) to the shop after the fact and sap off the house that way. That'd limit cooling the shop to those days when I'd be in there. And the snappy German ducting would prevent waste in the cellar when I wasn't using it.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I decided I'm going with the Carrier guy.

I decided that $32,000.00 was a tad much for one AC system and $45,000.00 for two systems was simply out of the question and the only thing they were offering me that was different was a Unico air handler and fancy German ducts.

The Carrier guy will give me two of their top of the line systems with filtration and variable speed air handlers and a written guarantee that they will seal the ducts and that it'll last five year. And the thermostat is capable of measuring line pressure to within 1-1000th of an inch of water.

This way I get two real time zones: one upstairs and one down, I get dehumidification when it's cold and wet outside without turning the AC to freezing, a soup to nuts guarantee with the words "100% satisfaction guaranteed" all over it, and two high performance filters that go down to 0.01 microns.

[Dennis Peacock]

I think you will like the Carrier setup. Here's to hoping all goes well, smoothly, and within budget.