I'm critically looking at sliders/combos. no final conclusions so far.

[Rafael Carias]

This year I'm planning on going solo on a custom cabinets and woodworks shop. my current plan is to get a european style combo at first then move up to stand alone machines. at first i had considered getting a full stand alone slider right off the bat so with price point in consideration I took at the asian sliders, but i can't seem to find much solid info on their reputation. manufactures claim that their machines are made in asian plants that make capable quality output comparable or equal to the saws made for the likes of powermaic and such (please correct me if am wrong because i haven't been able to confirm this for my self with solid information) the sliders in this bracket include grizzly, accura, panther machinery and the altendorf wa 8 (I am sure there are others I don't know about). Now, for what I understand the asian manufacturers are very capable if they are paid the right-amount for their product but I just can't justify buying one of those machine because I just can't get any reliable information on their reputations. the European machines on the other hand are a different story. so far in the area of slider combos the clear choices for me are the minimax cu300 with all the goodies and the robland nlx31, but I can't decide between the two because I haven't found any rave reviews on the nlx31.

Has anybody hard good things about he robland nlx31?

[Charles Grosjean]

my current plan is to get a european style combo at first then move up to stand alone machines. at first i had considered getting a full stand alone slider right off the bat so with price point in consideration I took at the asian sliders, but i can't seem to find much solid info on their reputation. <snip> and the altendorf wa 8.

Have you called Stiles in Ontario, CA? They represent Altendorf and should be able to show you a WA8 or refer you to a local shop. If you have that kind of budget, there are also a bunch of other machines you could be looking at including Format 4 (Felder) and SCM (or the MiniMax Formula line with better customer service).

In addition to searching here on SMC, you will also find a wealth of info on the FOG (Felder Owners Group on yahoo) and probably Woodweb in regards to combos vs. separates, especially from the pro shop viewpoint.

Used combos show up on Woodweb, there are currently a bunch of J/P's right now.

[Rafael Carias]

Thanks Charles

I did look into upper bracket machines (felder, altendorf f45, scm, martin) they were some very nice machines but way out my budget at this time. in contrast, for the price the asian machines are very tempting, I'm just unsure about them. that said, I will look into the WA8. Oh, did i mention i did try out a brand sparkling new altendorf f45 once.

Sorry if didn't clarify well but what i meant to say was that I wanted a full stand alone slider at first but decided other wise because it'll be a one man shop at first (but knowing my self it wont be for too long). thats why i initially i looked at the asian machines and didn't find much reputable information on them (as least not yet).

I did do quite a bit of homework on the combos in the shop and decided to put the stand alone slider on the shelf for the time being only because my initial budget will be small and it will be just me in the shop at the start. my plan is to get combo slider with 8.5 foot stoke so i can keep it around meanwhile the shop grows. after that if thing go well i'll start graving some separates.

lastly the used combos sound a lot more tempting then the aforementioned asian machinery;)

[mark page]

PM Jim Decker, he has a MM machine, along with others, and I do believe a lot of Creekers have the Hammer machines too. They might be able to give you a lot of insight>

[Steven Evans]

I went with the MM after seeing several models at the AWFS 2005 show. I got a full combo unit because I did not have enough room for separates. If you do have the room get the separate combo units. Saw/Shaper; Jointer/Planer. I have the mort unit but have never used it for work. The MM customer service is great.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Steven's advise...if you can swing it, go for the S/S and J/P/M combos. But if not, the full combo will do a very nice job for you. Do note that the farther up the food chain you go on the combo, the more capacity you get in the J/P side of things. The MM CU300 Smart starts at 12" on the J/P, for example. When you get to the 410, you're up to 16" capacities.

[mark page]

Sorry that I miss spelled your last name Jim, just recouping from the roast that everyone was giving me on my router problem. Forgive me, Mark

[Chris Barton]

If your interested in a Robland, stay away from the NLX31. The X31 is the better value and more serviceable machine. There are plenty of bad reviews of the NLX31 out there, you just have to find them. I have an X31 and it has been great.

[Greg Deakins]

Id start scanning the auctions in your vacinity. I have attended some large scale liquidations with some very nice machines such as Altendorf sliders. I will agree it (the Altendorf) is a fine piece, as I was on one for a few years. These machines usually go for pennies on the dollar. Large scale shops go under all the time, they just fold right there with product on the line. You can get great deals at these things, even on units of board, drawer slides, sturdy built shelving, hydraulic lifts, beam saws, edge banders, you name it.

[Rafael Carias]

If your interested in a Robland, stay away from the NLX31. The X31 is the better value and more serviceable machine. There are plenty of bad reviews of the NLX31 out there, you just have to find them. I have an X31 and it has been great.

Chris, Did you mean to say the "NX31"? I've seen some bad reviews on the NX31 but not on the NXL31 which from the looks of it seem to be closer to a true format (i might be wrong) and has an 8 foot stroke. if any thing i've seen plenty of bad reviews on the x31, to be honest i don't know what to make of that.


Jim, I don't think i'll have the combo for years on end, i will however want a full stroke slider (8.5 feet) with shaper, jointer/planer. we'll see if i can move up the food chain, the wider capacities on the jointer/planer would be very welcomed feature but if i don't get them it wont be the end of the world.

[Gary Curtis]

I was in the same position as you 18 months ago. But I'm a hobbyist. I also lived in Los Angeles, but wanted a saw/shaper combination for my new home and shop in Northern California.

First off, don't be in a hurry. All the brands you mention come up for sale on eBay. And, considering that you live in L.A., there's a ton of used stuff right there at home.

As to brands, do a search here on SawMillCreek to get the best possible advice. A few guys own Mini-Max, a few more have Felders. I haven't come across a Knapp fan. I was torn between a Felder and a Knapp. It wouldn't have mattered. They were too much money at the time.

Then an architect in my wood club (SF Valley Woodworkers) took me to his shop and showed me his INCA 12-inch saw with a Robland slider he bolted on himself. I asked him, "Can I do that, too?" Robland does sell their sliding table for about $800. But he said that General, Delta and Grizzly have comparable equipment already set up.

I bought a General right tilt 350 saw (Canada) with their Taiwanese sliding table. Quality on the Chinese accessory is B+, I would say. But the design has limitations, primary being, that unlike a true European Format saw, the slider doesn't come right up against the blade. It is offset by 8".

That in itself wasn't much of a drawback. But it means that I can't clamp wood to the slider and do ripping. That would be a quantum leap forward in safety. You said you're a cabinetmaker. Be sure you get a saw that can crosscut a 4x8 sheet of plywood. And rip the 8-foot length as well.
The cost of the General with a 5hp Baldor motor was about $2900.

Felder has their new 500-series equipment at prices of about $7000 for a saw/shaper. And be sure to talk to Jesse Barragon at Eagle Tools near Glendale. (323 telephone area). Be patient. Look for used stuff.

Gary Curtis
Trinity County :)