Should I be able to re-saw 4" oak? (YES)

[Mark Engel]

I have an old Reliant 14" band saw with a 6" riser block. It only has a 1 hp motor. Trying to re-saw some white oak 4x4's the saw bogs down and stalls with very little push into the blade.

I was using a relatively new 1/2" 3tpi blade which I thought maybe wasn't as sharp as it should be. I took that blade off and installed a brand new Olson All-Pro Professional Series 3/4" 3tpi blade. It didn't seem to make much of a difference.

Is this a power problem with the 1hp motor? Or is there a different blade I should consider?

I ended up re-sawing these boards on the table saw to get the job done. I just don't like to do that too much due to the amount of waste and the wear and tear on the TS and blade.

Any knowledge and/or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Could be a number of things. Could be the blade - you might try a Timberwolf and get their recommendation on which blade to use for your saw. Or a Woodslicer would be even better, by the reports I have read. Could be the motor belt is not tight - that's a major potential contributor to a loss in power. Could be the saw is not really 1HP.

I have a Jet 1HP band saw and I can easily resaw 4" oak with a Timberwolf blade, at a decent feed rate and no stalling at all.

[Mark Engel]

I hadn't even thought about the drive belt.

This is a four speed BS. The motor belt drives an intermediate pulley which drives the primary wheel. The belt adjustment is, shall we say, challenging? I will have to check that out tomorrow.

Thanks for the response. :)

[Wilbur Pan]

Besides belt drive tension, you also might want to figure out the speed at which your blade is running. If the blade speed is too slow, it may not be cutting efficiently.

[Lee Schierer]

Check the belt tension. MOst likely yo will find it loose. I can resaw 5-1/2" red oak on my 14" Delta BS with a 3/4 Hp motor. I had the same problem until I discovered the belt was loose. Now it has plenty of power.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I hadn't even thought about the drive belt.

This is a four speed BS. The motor belt drives an intermediate pulley which drives the primary wheel. The belt adjustment is, shall we say, challenging? I will have to check that out tomorrow.

Thanks for the response. :)

Happy I might have helped. The reason I'm aware of the belt problem is that I had the problem on my Jet saw. Not only was the power weak, but the saw vibrated more than it should. I switched to a link belt and the problem was resolved.

[Alfred Clem]

have you checked the tires on your bandsaw wheels? If they are old, worn, or dried out from time, your blade may be slipping. Of course, your saw's blade tension should be checked into.

[Phil Clark]

You mentioned it is a four speed band saw - check the speed, as others have mentioned, but don't forget your feed rate too.

[Phil Thien]

I have had terrible luck w/ Olson blades. For store-bought (Menards) I like MK Morse. But you may want to try a WoodSlicer from Highland Hardware.

[glenn bradley]

Just as a point of reference; I resaw 5" oak on my 1/3HP P.O.S. C-man 12" BS without much trouble. Timberwolf blades and good belt tension on the higher speed pulley.

[Mark Engel]

Thank you, all, for the advice and suggestions. I am going down to the shop in just a few minutes to re-check the belt tension.

According to the owners manual the highest speed on the machine moves the blade at 2578.4 ft./min.

I have checked the tires on the wheels. They appear to be in good condition, not ripped up and still have some spring to them, so they don't appear to be 'dried out'.

I have the blade tensioner pretty much maxed out. The maximum width blade for this BS is a 3/4" which is what is currently installed. The blade tensioner has a scale on it to use with different blade widths. When the scale reads 3/4" the tensioning hand wheel can not be moved any further. There is a very small amount of blade deflection when I press on the blade lightly midway between the wheels.

I am also wondering if maybe I have the blade guides set too close to the blade. I have the plastic blade guides which I press against the blade, then release and tighten in place. The blade moves easily when I rotate the wheels by hand. It doesn't appear to be binding on the guides.

[Matt Lentzner]

In his Bandsaw book, Lonnie Bird recommends that the maximum width blade on a 14" saw be 1/2". According to him, the majority of 14" saws don't have the frame rigidity to tension a 3/4" blade adequately. I don't have any personal experience - just passing on what I read.

Matt

[Mark Engel]

Yes!

The belt from the intermediate pulley to the drive wheel pulley was a little on the loose side. I tightened that belt up, which moved the pulley closer to the motor, which meant I had to tighten that belt up as well.

When I started to loosen the motor bolts, 2 of them were already loose and the other 2 could have been tighter. I took the opportunity to add some washers and lock washers to the motor bolts.

I also found out that I actually had the saw set for the second to the fastest speed. Brain fart, I guess.

Anyway, moved the belt to the pulley for high speed operation. I used a couple of Jorgensen clamps to keep the belt tension on while a snugged up the bolts. Worked like a charm. Closed and/or re-attached all the covers, re-tensioned the blade, adjusted the guides and let 'er fly.

This thing now cuts like a hot knife through butter. I cut through a 4.5" tall, 24" long piece of white oak in no time flat. I really had to push hard on the piece of oak before I could hear the saw start to slow down.

I am psyched now! I've got 12 of these 8ft long 4"x4" beams sitting in the shop waiting to be cut down to size. There are 18 more sitting out in the back yard. They have been stickered and drying for over 8 years. (Sorry, mini wood-gloat :) )

Thank you, thank you, thank you to all for your excellent advice.

[Mark Engel]

I may have spoke too soon. :(

I was trimming an inch off of a 52" oak 4x4. It was moving along real nicely until about 2/3 of the way through. Then the saw just started bogging down. I backed off a bit and the speed picked right back up. Started pushing again and the blade stalled with moderate pressure. This time when I backed off, the blade did not start back up again. I had to pull the piece all the way off the blade before it started to run again. As soon as I got the work piece back to the end of the kerf and started cutting again, it stalled again!

I turned off the saw and turned it on after removing the oak. The motor was humming, but the blade was hardly moving, and then stopped. I had access to all the pulleys and nothing was moving. With the power off, I gave a good push on the top wheel and then turned on the power while it was still moving. After a couple of seconds it seemed to be back up to full speed.

All the belts are still good and tight. Could they be too tight?

I remember when I first got this saw I could spin the top wheel by hand and it would continue for a good long time. When I try that now, it only spins for maybe 20-30 seconds. I removed both belts and spun the top wheel and got a nice long spin out of that. When I put the belt from the drive wheel to the intermediate pulley back on, I can feel some resistance when I try to manually spin the wheel. With the belt off, the wheels and the intermediate pulley both spin freely.

This is very confusing, all of the individual parts seem to be working, but they don't seem to want to play with each other.

How much of a factor is belt alignment? I eyeballed everything and it looks pretty well lined up to me.

Could it be a problem with the motor itself?

Sorry for the extremely long post. I just don't really know what else to do here.

HELP!!!

[Pete Bradley]

Mark,

Sometimes when ripping big/long pieces, the kerf twists or binds. I suspect that's all that's happening here. Most likely:
1. the side that's touching the table is not flat, causing twist as you feed. You can try to joint it, or else run it on top of a sacrificial board that is flat.
2. the wood may be closing back in behind the band. You can stick a wedge into the end of the kerf to hold it open.

Pete

[Mark Engel]

Well, when I stalled the blade mid-cut, that was the first thing that came to my mind. I must have twisted or turned the workpiece and bound up the blade.

However, at this point, the saw is having a hard time starting up without even trying to cut anything. After it stalls and I shut it down, most times it will not start back up again. I end up having to push the blade down with a piece of scrap to get it moving. Once that has been done, it will start on it's own, albeit, quite slowly. If I stall it again, it will need another push. I checked the motor and it does seem to be a little on the warm side. That may be normal based on the trouble it is having getting everything moving.

I wonder if the motor or the cap starter is going bad. The saw is old, but it really hasn't been used much at all.

I am calling it a night for today. I will try it again tomorrow after it has had plenty of time to cool down. If it still has a hard time at start-up I will remove all the belts and see how the motor does with no load.

[glenn bradley]

The fact that you have to push-start it really points to the starter cap.

[Mark Engel]

I was thinking that a bad capacitor could explain the need to push start the blade. I am still confused as to why it wants to stall when making a cut. At that point the motor and blade are up to full speed and should be able to maintain that speed. With all the symptoms taken together, it seems like something is binding.

I guess I'll have to spend some time trying to troubleshoot this problem this afternoon.

I am going to take off the blade and remove both drive belts and then try the motor with zero load. From there I will starting adding more load to the motor and see when it starts to have a difficult time starting.

I guess if the motor is shot it will be an excuse to move up to a 1.5 or 2 hp replacement motor. ;)

[Allen Bookout]

I guess if the motor is shot it will be an excuse to move up to a 1.5 or 2 hp replacement motor. ;)

I put a 2 hp on my Delta 14". It might be overkill but I never have to worry about the power for what the saw is able to do.

[Al Willits]

"""""""
In his Bandsaw book, Lonnie Bird recommends that the maximum width blade on a 14" saw be 1/2". According to him, the majority of 14" saws don't have the frame rigidity to tension a 3/4" blade adequately. I don't have any personal experience - just passing on what I read.
"""""""

Far be it for the newb here to comment on what Mr. Bird reccomends, but after talking to Timberwolf, I now have a 3/4" resaw blade on my Delta, and with the 6" riser I've done over 6" white oak on it and it cuts very nice, not very fast, but it does make nice cuts.
Timberwolf also states high tenioning isn't required with their blades, and it does seem to work for me....
Just a thought....:)

Al

[Pete Bradley]

A problem with the starting cap or circuit wouldn't explain a loss of power while running. Given that the wheels spin freely, it does sound like the motor's the source of the problem though. You might want to take it to your local motor shop for a look.

Pete

[Mark Engel]

The continuing saga.

The first thing I did was just re-tension the blade and try to start the saw after it had just sat there since last night. No change, the blade seemed like it wanted to move, but it just sat there while the motor hummed. I then took off the drive belt from the motor to the intermediate pulley and turned it on. The motor came right up to speed like it should.

At that point I decided to start over. I basically dis-assembled the whole drive system and loosened up all the adjustables.

I started re-assembly by putting on the belt from the intermediate pulley to the bottom drive wheel and adjusting it so the belt was good and tight. Then the belt from the motor to the intermediate was installed and adjusted. Before I put a blade on, I tried it, and it was starting right up. So far, good. I put the 3/4" blade back on and just snugged it up enough to remove any 'slop'. Turned on the saw and everything is still working as expected. Next step was to crank up the tension on the blade. I cranked the tension up until the the wheel would not turn any further, which is where the indicator indicates it should be. Turn on the saw and it has a hard time starting, but does. I backed off a little on the blade tension and it gets a little better. Back off a little more and it seems to be working good.

Now I put in the blade guides and adjust them and the rear guides and try it again. Still working. Pulled out a nice long piece of 4" oak and started cutting.

Everything seems to be working ok at this point. The only thing that I can think of is that when I tightened up the belts and cranked up the tension on the blade, it was just too much for the motor to overcome. I am going to use this blade to get through as much of my pie of 4" oak as it will handle. When this blade goes bad, I will replace it with a 1/2" blade, probably a Timberwolf.

Thanks again for everyone's help with this.

[Walter Yamamoto]

Just a thought. Your description of the problem could be one or more of the bearings being bad. With a wide blade that's heavily tensioned, there is a LOT of pre-load on the bearings.

As the bearings spin under such tremendous load, it will generate a lot of heat and can tighten up. You stated that you used to be able to spin the wheel quite readily but now cannot. The bearing may be just bad enough to sieze when it heats up, but spin moderately ok otherwise.

I also agree that 3/4" is probably too wide for such a saw even if the manufacturer secified so - maybe it was high hopes on there part...

Wayne

[Curt Harms]

Mark, what you're going through sounds like what I went through with an older Grizz bandsaw, almost having enough power although I never had startup issues. I replaced the Grizz 3/4 h.p. motor with a GE 1.5 h.p. motor. That ended my problem.

HTH

Curt

[Mark Engel]

Walter, you could be right. The wheels do spin very freely with the drive belts removed and just the blade installed. Also, each individual pulley seems to spin freely with no drive belts installed.

This is the first 3/4" blade I have used with this low end saw. I will be getting a 1/2" blade as soon as practical.

Curt, I have already started looking at 1.5 or 2 hp motors to replace this one. I just don't want to replace a perfectly good motor if the problem lies elsewhere. This saw was never a real speed demon, but it always got the job done in a decent amount of time in the past, so the power always seemed sufficient, for what it was. A stronger motor will be able to power through the cuts, but is it also powering through the whatever originally caused the problem?

I only really use this saw for occasional re-sawing. It will be getting a little more of workout now since I have a stack of oak boards to work through. For smaller tasks and cutting curves, etc., I use a Delta 8" bench top BS.

[Paul Simmel]

Mark,

You mentioned a few times that the motor just “hums”. In my experience that means the motor is shot (for whatever reason).

The larger blades (¾”) are only an issue due to the smaller diameter wheels which can make the thicker steel bend more than if run on larger wheels. You saw will be fine, and so will your motor… just the blades will prematurely fatigue.

[Mark Engel]

Mark,

You mentioned a few times that the motor just “hums”. In my experience that means the motor is shot (for whatever reason).

The larger blades (¾”) are only an issue due to the smaller diameter wheels which can make the thicker steel bend more than if run on larger wheels. You saw will be fine, and so will your motor… just the blades will prematurely fatigue.

The motor only hums when it can't get the wheels spinning. Once everything starts moving, there is no hum.

As far as the 3/4" blades, I think the problem comes not from the blade thickness itself, but from the need to apply more tension to keep the thicker blade tight to the wheels. When I back off a little on the blade tension, the saw works better.

[Tom Maple]

I have the blade tensioner pretty much maxed out. The maximum width blade for this BS is a 3/4" which is what is currently installed. The blade tensioner has a scale on it to use with different blade widths. When the scale reads 3/4" the tensioning hand wheel can not be moved any further.
Mark,
You can have too much tension on the blade if the adjuster is maxed out. Once the adjusting spring is fully compressed, the tension rises dramatically as the knob is turned again. It is no longer a linear increase in tension, the load increases very rapidly.
Just another thought to consider while you're sorting things out.

[Mark Engel]

Tom, I believe you have hit the nail on the head. If I turn the tension wheel until it stops, then back it off some, the saw seems to work fine.

[Steven Wilson]

On that saw you should look at using a 3/8" or 1/2" blade at the max (3 tpi is good). You may want to look at the Timberwolf AS blade which has a bit wider kerf but it great for tough cutting. I would give the Timberwolf folk's a call and get their recommendations.

[Mark Engel]

I will be looking into a Timberwolf 1/2" blade to replace the current blade.
As I recall, the 1/2" blade that I just took off the saw was working fine until it got too dull to cut effectively.

[Mark Engel]

Just to (hopefully) finish off this subject.

I found and purchased a 1.5hp GE motor on ebay. Brand new for $70.00. I got the motor installed and tried the saw. It was cutting very well, but it did still want to stall at times when I didn't think it should. I took a look at the motor while the blade was stalled and saw that the motor was spinning away, but the belt was not!

Checked the belt tension again and both belts were tight. The bottom belt was tight enough to cause the motor mount to twist ever so slightly when the belt was put on.

Now one thing that I never mentioned and probably should, mainly because it looks like a major contributing factor to all of this. I had swapped out the original belts on this saw and installed the adjustable link type belts, trying to reduce some vibration, as I recall. Anyway, I put the original rubber(?) belts back on and it seems to have a made a noticeable improvement. I can still stall the saw, but it takes some effort. I can now cut my 4" white oak slabs in about 1/4 the time it was taking before! Plus, I now have a 1.5hp saw:D .

Once again, thank you to everyone for your very helpful advice and suggestions.

Time to get back to it. That oak is not going to re-saw itself.;)

[Chuck Lenz]

Mark, I'm questioning weather you had the V-belt to tight on the pulleys. In your bandsaws manual it should tell you how tight to tighten the belt. As far as the link belt goes I've never had a problem with a link belt and I have it on a couple pieces of machinery and have been very happy with them. One thing you need to remember about a link belt is, they are directional, There is a arrow on one of the links pointing to which direction the belt must turn. Did I read that correctly that you have two belts on that machine ?

[Bob Swenson]

Mark- you might want to spray those v-belts with some automotive belt dressing.
The stuff keeps the belt on my 30+ year old Delta shaper in top shape.

Bob

[Mark Engel]

Mark, I'm questioning weather you had the V-belt to tight on the pulleys. In your bandsaws manual it should tell you how tight to tighten the belt. As far as the link belt goes I've never had a problem with a link belt and I have it on a couple pieces of machinery and have been very happy with them. One thing you need to remember about a link belt is, they are directional, There is a arrow on one of the links pointing to which direction the belt must turn. Did I read that correctly that you have two belts on that machine ?

Chuck, I just read your post and went down to the shop and checked those belts, They are Accu-Link belts from Jason Industrial. I can see no markings on any of the links, inside or outside, that indicate that they are directional. There is no instruction on the package to indicate that they are directional, either.

As it stands now, the saw is cutting to my satisfaction. I do need to tighten up the belt from the intermediate pulley to the bottom wheel of the saw as it is slipping a bit from time to time, but, other than that, I am satisfied with the performance.

I just need to wear out this one last Olson blade so I can buy a new 1/2" Timberwolf or Wood-Slicer without getting grief from SWMBO.

[Mark Engel]

Mark- you might want to spray those v-belts with some automotive belt dressing.
The stuff keeps the belt on my 30+ year old Delta shaper in top shape.

Bob
Will do, thanks for the tip. ;)

[Herbert Granger]

I have and old rellant and I have no problem in resawing oak,I would try kicking up your speed a little and getting a good blade and tighting up that belt.And above all don't be in a rush to get it done,Take your time you not going any where.Thank you all herb Granger

[Mark Engel]

The slower I go, the longer 'the list' gets. :rolleyes:

[Herbert Granger]

Mark, Well the longer the list the more advice the more advice the longer the list. Just take one piece of advice at a time and have fun. If it ant fun then don;t do it ..You are in woodworking to have fun. so just take one step at a time and I'm shour you will get there O.K. Thanks Herb Granger

[Mark Engel]

Mark, Well the longer the list the more advice the more advice the longer the list. Just take one piece of advice at a time and have fun. If it ant fun then don;t do it ..You are in woodworking to have fun. so just take one step at a time and I'm shour you will get there O.K. Thanks Herb Granger

If only I could convince my wife of that. It is her list after all. :)