Painful kickback

[Brian Penning]

Had a bad one last night. Was making a bevel cut on the piece below. Used a pushstick to feed the piece through and I think the mistake I made was due to the blade being tilted over 12.5 degrees my pushing from the left to keep it against the fence caused it to ride up on the blade sooner than normal and come flying back at me.
Somehow I sliced my 2 middle fingertips of my left hand rather badly -I think this was from contact with the blade. The piece came flying back at me, went through my sweatshirt and T-shirt and into my stomach hard enough to cut me.
Apparently I was quite a sight -blood dripping off my hand and a red patch coming through my shirt.
Just walked back into the kitchen to run the water over my fingers.
Anyway decided it wasn't worth the trip to the hospital(They're asking us to stay away these days).
Cut in my stomach wasn't that bad(helluva bruise already) and I got some loose flaps of skin on my fingers/nails.
Hmmmm...I gotta make the same cut on another piece.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f193/Bri68/IMG_2669.jpg?t=1177586802

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f193/Bri68/IMG_2671.jpg?t=1177587861

[Jon Farley]

Board Buddies would be a good investment before you make that next cut. I've had mine about six months and love them. Hope you're ok...Jon

[Bob Oswin]

Had a bad one last night. Was making a bevel cut on the piece below. Used a pushstick to feed the piece through and I think the mistake I made was due to the blade being tilted over 12.5 degrees my pushing from the left to keep it against the fence caused it to ride up on the blade sooner than normal and come flying back at me.
]

I make that cut occasionally and I use a piece of 1 x 3 clamped to the fence and just snugged to the board to prevent lift off. I push the piece thru the saw with a sacrifical piece of 1 x 3 and then stop the blade.

Bob

[Aaron Beaver]

Is your saw a right tilt?

What did you mean "pushing from the left", I am just trying to picture your setup.

Anyway, I hope your fingers are okay and I am glad it wasn't worse.

[Ken Milhinch]

You had the blade tilted toward the fence :eek:
I am not surprised you got a kickback. Just be grateful it wasn't worse.
I would suggest you invest in a Gripper or two and put your fence on the other side of the blade.

[Brian Penning]

By "pushing from the left" I meant I was keeping the whole 6" wide board against the fence initially. It's the scrap cutoff piece on the left that hit me. I had no problem with the good piece that was between the blade and fence.
A Gripper will be on it's way to me soon.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, hope you are OK.

Were you using a splitter during the rip operation?

Regards, Rod.

[glenn bradley]

I'm glad that wasn't worse. Heal up quick.

I always have my waste fall away from the blade. You may want to consider making that cut with the fence to the right of the blade. That way gravity doesn't drop the waste onto the blade once the cut is complete. With a Grr-Ripper, in that situation, you would only be applying more pressure onto the blade with the waste piece which might be worse. IMHO.

P.s. This is a good reminder for me as I do not have a good method of running a splitter when doing bevel cuts.

[Brian Penning]

I always use a splitter(built into my insert) but for a bevel cut I have to switch to my standard insert.
Glen>> on the Gripper website they show using it for the exact cut I made...er...didn't make.
http://www.microjig.com/video/BevelCut.jpg

[Tim Lynch]

I think that if you are pushing stock from the waste side, applying pressure to the right and ahead, you are basically aiming your hands at the blade. If the piece moves out of the way, as it did here, your hands continue toward the blade.

This is the type of operation that should cause one's hair to stand up on the back of their neck and give them pause.

Yes, it's easy for us to sit in judgement in hindsight, but it seems like a number of fundamental things done wrong here that we can all learn from.

No guard, anti-kickback pawls or other device, and no splitter.
Blade tilted toward fence, trapping piece, which can result in it being fired straight back.
Pushing on waste piece toward blade (results as demonstrated unfortunately).
Standing in the path of a potential waste piece kickback (left side), although it's no guarantee where it will fly.I wish you a speedy recovery and hope that you may have saved someone from this or worse by posting.

[Dan Gill]

This was a little scary, too:


Anyway decided it wasn't worth the trip to the hospital(They're asking us to stay away these days).

[frank shic]

brian, glad that you're not seriously injured. where's your blade guard?

[glenn bradley]

"on the Gripper website they show using it for the exact cut I made...er...didn't make."

Thanks Brian. I can see now that I wasn't picturing that quite right. I have a pair of Grr-Rippers, you'd think I'd know. . .doh.

[Brian Penning]

brian, glad that you're not seriously injured. where's your blade guard?

Bladeguard?? :confused:;)

[Alex Berkovsky]

Brian,
Sorry to hear about your accident; have a speedy recovery. I am surprised at the picture you linked to showing the blade tilted towards the fence. I am no expert, but everywhere I have read, always tilt the blade away from the fence and for right-tilt saws, move the fence to the left of the blade.


Anyway decided it wasn't worth the trip to the hospital (They're asking us to stay away these days).Anybody else wants Canada's health care system in US? :eek:

[Greg Robbins]

I'm partial to Grip-tites myself. Been using them for 10 years and never had a kick back.

[Paul Johnstone]

Do you need both pieces that you are cutting?

It might be safer to do a regular rip and then put the bevel on the edge with a jointer?

I don't do a lot of beveled cuts, so I don't know.

[Dominique Dechene]

Anybody else wants Canada's health care system in US? :eek:

You want our health case system in US?! Never do that, or put your name on the wating list today and hope to be cure in the next 3 years..
And if Brian had decide to go to hospital for is cutting finger, he had a chance to exit with a more dangerous problem like Clostridium difficile.

[Brian Dormer]

Get Grripers! They work well (although sometimes they can be a bit tedious to set up). I've never had a kickback using them and I always feel that my hands are safe and I'm in control.

[Ron Hedrick]

Amen, on the Gripper. I love my grippers use them all the time. Ever since I lost that fight with the saw blade. I feel much more secure using them. An accident like that will install a sense of fear.

[Ole Anderson]

Brian,

When I saw you attached some pics, I thought they were of your red badge of courage, not the wood! Come on man, let's see some real pics of the damage. Did it look anything like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/CJ7ole/Img_0854.jpg

[Brian Penning]

When I take the finger bandages off tonight let me know if you want to see actual photos wilya? ;)
As for the tummy I'll give it a day or 2 to achieve it's maximum foliage.
That is a beauty you got there though, I must admit.

[Al Willits]

Glad to hear ya didn't seriously hurt yourself.
In my short woodworking career I've managed to launch wood from my TS twice, and once from my router, luckily needing only a couple of band aids to stop the bleeding.

I did unfortunately do a bit more damage on a unplugged jointer I had just gotten and was cleaning the shipping grease off, should have had stitches for that, but lots and lots of band aids, a shop towel and tape stopped the bleeding fingers.

Does bring to mind what a dangerous endeavor wood working is, and each time we get by with out a trip to the emergency room it should be considered lucky, and a learning experience.

Thanks for posting.

Al

[Lee Schierer]

I'm partial to Grip-tites myself. Been using them for 10 years and never had a kick back.

Yep, same here. Never had a kickback when the grip tites were used. They go on and off in seconds, so they actually get used. Almost no set up required and even a cave man can do it!

[Blake Holton]

Brian:

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I would imagine that for every close call or accident posted here many, many more occur in our shops (formally referred to, in my case, a garage).

Be safe,

Blake

[Hoa Dinh]

This is mentioned several times in this thread:

- You had the blade tilted toward the fence.
- You may want to consider making that cut with the fence to the right of the blade.
- Blade tilted toward fence, trapping piece, which can result in it being fired straight back.
- ...always tilt the blade away from the fence and for right-tilt saws, move the fence to the left of the blade.

The fact that the blade is tilted toward the fence is NOT the cause of the kickback. From what I read, the piece being kicked back was the piece on the OTHER SIDE for the blade, not the piece between the blade and the fence.

When the blade is tilted toward the fence, there is less room for the hand. But that in itself does NOT increase the chance of kickback. In fact, the piece between the blade and the fence is trapped UNDER THE BLADE. If anything, that reduces the chance of it wandering into the trailing edge of the blade.

If the blade is tilted away from the fence, the piece between the blade and the fence is riding ABOVE the blade and can get picked up by the trailing edge of the blade. As in this case, without a splitter it is likely to cause kickback.

So, please don't say that the blade being tilted toward the fence is more likely to cause kickback.

The lesson to learn here is TO USE A SPLITTER WHENEVER POSSIBLE.

This is why I don't recommend the MJ Splitter. It can't be used in bevel cut, when is it most needed.

[Tim Martin]

Hi Brian, glad to hear you're injury's weren't too bad. Hope they heal well.

I have been ripping bevels/miters the same way you did for a decade in a professional shop with out kickback or any mishaps. Same setup, push sticks and blade tilted in to the fence, except I always use a permanently located riving knife.

The main reason your piece was thrown back at you was because you had no splitter/riving knife. Also a good blade guard will also help stop throwing something directly at your face.

I know Americans don't like splitters, or riving knifes much, but here in Aus, I would flat out refuse to use a table saw that had no riving knife. Who knows when you cut a piece of timber if it is loaded or not with internal tension, just waiting to grab onto the back of the blade and come back at you at a million miles an hour.

[glenn bradley]

"I did unfortunately do a bit more damage on a unplugged jointer "

Amen to that. My worst injury of late came from poking my finger on the tooth of an unplugged TS crosscut blade. I shudder to think what a spinning one could do. That sucker cut deep.

[Alex Berkovsky]

The lesson to learn here is TO USE A SPLITTER WHENEVER POSSIBLE.

This is why I don't recommend the MJ Splitter. It can't be used in bevel cut, when is it most needed.Am I not understanding something here? How can a splitter, any splitter be used during a bevel cut? :confused: Whenever a blade is tilted, a splitter does not move with the blade.

[Hoa Dinh]

Am I not understanding something here? How can a splitter, any splitter be used during a bevel cut? :confused: Whenever a blade is tilted, a splitter does not move with the blade.
Most, if not all, stock splitters are attached to the trunion, and tilt with the blade.

Some of the problems of stock splitters are (0) they are too far from the blade, (1) they don't move up/down with the blade, so have to be taken out for non-through cut and (2) they are a pain to take out and to re-install.

My shop-made splitters (http://new.photos.yahoo.com/hoa_dinh@sbcglobal.net/album/576460762322156769), while not perfect, solve the problems above to some extend. The bladeguard needs to be over-arm, however.

[Alex Berkovsky]

Most, if not all, stock splitters are attached to the trunion, and tilt with the blade.
I thought riving knives did that, not splitters.

[ROBERT ELLIS]

Brian thanks for sharing your story with us. The main thing you'll need to do is get back up on the horse and ride! I cut my hand on my bandsaw, of all things the machine was off and I was putting a new rubber tire on it. The Stanley box cutter in my right hand is the culprit that got me, horrible cut 5 stiches. Ever since then I had an unusual fear of my bandsaw, probably more than any other machine.

Believe it or not, I never used a splitter until recently. I actually woodworked full time for a number of years and never really bothered with one (I was like the rest of the Lemmings in these parts, they didn't, and still don't use splitters, guards, etc). Just recently I started using one and boy what a dummy I have been, I won't be caught without one now.

A few years ago I had a similiar experience as you did only I was making a simple cut, i.e., squaring up an 5/8 panel to make a raised panel. For whatever reason, as I was squaring it up, the panel started veering to the left, and I knew it was going to start dancing on the blade, all I could do was try to control/contain the inevitable, the panel was going to come at me rather quickly. After it mastered me I wound up getting a bruise to the belly. I still keep the panel around in my shop as a reminder. It has this nice little "S" running it's entire length...Might be a good time for everyone who has a "special piece of wood" to post a picture for all to see. Thanks again for sharing your story and pictures.

Cheers, Robert

[Mike Heidrick]

The piece came flying back at me, went through my sweatshirt and T-shirt and into my stomach hard enough to cut me.
Apparently I was quite a sight -blood dripping off my hand and a red patch coming through my shirt.


I had a bad kickbak with a 12"X12" piece of 3/4" plywood that did the same thing to my gut last summer. I still have a pair of lines as red marks. Cut me right through the shirt but did not tear the shift. Crazy powerful. If I would have been thin and shorter I would have broke ribs I believe.

[Eugene A. Manzo III]

Brian I am glad your ok and thank you for a kind way of telling us all to be very careful ALL the time.