Plea for advice with THE rude question

[George Elston]

We have recently purchased a VersaLaser 200 30W with the "fine attachment" which should halve the beam and double the power. I have contacted Embroidery and silk screen shops, that want to show samples and take orders for us, and several photographers (for engraved marble and frames), other artisans in the area (glass and stone) are very excited and should provide business. A Party rental store wants a sample case with everything from laser cut and embossed invitations, to laser engraved soap, and wine glasses etc. There are a couple of other laser etchers in town (West Palm Beach, FL) but they are at sign shops and don't go after other business. I also have people asking about etching laptops and mp3 players. And thanks to all the people here that have contributed great advice.

Now the problem, we have invested a lot in this venture, (and still have a little left), but it's time to fish or cut bait, and the plan was to push the business full time and fly or die as they say. BUT, an old friend has offered me full time employment and I am tempted to take it and work the business in my "spare time". I should mention also that I have worked with lasers for the last ten years, but to expose printing plates, (different animal, but I know the breed). I ran the graphics dept for a national printer, until our local plant was closed, so I have computer graphic skills and know the software.

So...... the RUDE question! I know there is more experience here than I could gain in a hundred years. So if you guys and gals can't give me a clue it's not to be had. We need to net about 6K a month, to pay all the bills, (personal and business) the job offer would not quite do that, but it would provide a big portion.

What is a realistic figure for the first year, with 2 people, 1 small laser and lots of energy and desperation?:) As opposed to working to build the business weekends and spare time? I should mention that the JOB is running another print shop, it's 60 miles away and is 10-12 hrs a day plus drive, so not much spare time.

So... should I take the easy safe road and go work for my friend, or stick to the plan and build the laser etching business or go down in flames? I would rather take my chances, but I'm hoping that I can show my wife some numbers that will help my case.

I hope y'all can give me some advice, either way. I promise to show my wife ALL answers. I have to give an answer on Mon. and the Laser arrives May 10th. God Bless you all.
And thanks again

George

[Scott Shepherd]

Hi George, I think you should take the other job and send me all your leads. I promise to take good care of them all :D

[Mike Null]

Take the job and build your laser business as you can with a good customer base. Words are nice to hear but orders convert to dollars.

Regular customers who re-order will determine your success.

[Nancy Laird]

Take the job and build your laser business as you can with a good customer base. Words are nice to hear but orders convert to dollars.

Regular customers who re-order will determine your success.

I totally agree with Mike--take the job and do the lasering on the side until such time as you get your business built up. We bought our first (used) laser about two years ago and started building our business, then managed to buy a second laser last fall. LOML and I both have full-time day jobs and we do this work at night and on weekends--and we managed to gross over $14K last year. We didn't get into this business to get rich or be able to retire on the job (as we both have SS and hubby has his military retirement), but when we retire at the end of this year, it will be nice to know that we will have that "little bit of extra" income to supplement and put our income at just about what it is now, without busting our butts to do it.

Nancy

[Joe Pelonio]

I agree with the others, take the job. I already had a steady sign busines when I added the laser, and even with the "built in" customers it took me 6 months before I made enough to cover the cost and start making money. I've had months where I made more than 6k in laser work but others that were a lot less.

You also have to be aware that some of your potential customers that you spoke to may fizzle out when it comes time to actually place orders.

[Keith Outten]

George,

You may want to consider your local economy and factor it into the equation. There are areas of the country that are suffering right now, a new startup business would be a tough go if this is the case.

The job offered by your friend doesn't seem to allow any spare time to work on a part time laser engraving business. Ten to twelve hour days with two+ hours of commuting time leaves little time to eat and sleep. If the other half of your team is your wife it would pretty much put the entire burden of bringing up a new business on her shoulders.

Last but not least I expect very few could pull six grand per month from engraving jobs alone with just one laser engraver. Just starting up adds more then just a challenge to an already tough job establishing a customer base.

.

[Mike Mackenzie]

George,

I would see if you can work a deal out to where you set-up the laser at this new job. If he is a friend that might work, then you can do your job as well as build the laser business and you can do it all in one place. Not to mention you will probably find things that need lasering at the new job or for there customers.

The only real problem I see here is when would you see your wife:eek: ! I know get her on the payroll as well;) .

[Larry Bratton]

George:
You use the term WE, I assume you mean you and your wife. Can she assist with running the business your developing while your working your other job?

I recently made a large (I consider nearly $30k to be large) investment in our laser. Although I have another business to provide our income, we wanted to build on something we could do together without having to hire other people. I looked at this as an investment in mine and my wife's future. I want her to have an interest and be able to do the laser business too, in case something were to happen to me. She would have a way to earn a living. The other business is something that she could not and would not be able to handle, this would be.

Yes, I agree with the others. With a $6k per month liability, that would be tough just starting up without something to fall back on. Take the job and then figure out how to go forward to grow the business without putting yourself in the "poor house" so to speak. Good luck!

[Charles McKinley]

Hi George,

The reason most start ups fail is lack of csh flow. You can even be profitable but not having CASH at a slow time will sink you.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience in the field but need some more business education. Look for the Small Business Development Center in your area. This is a Fedral program to help you get things started on the right footing. It is located in the business dept. of a university. They have a lot of information on line as well. Ask if they offer a Small business Jumpstart program. This will allow you to determine things like what is your "unit", fixed cost", variable cost, cash flow and breakeven point. Armed with this information you will be able to better judge if YOU can make it. Everyones' situation is different. Answering these questions your self will give you insite on how much you will have to make and how many widgets you have to crank out to hit that mark.

Good luck with your decision.

I wish you and your wife the best.

[Mike Null]

George:

There's quite a lot of equipment you'll need besides the laser. You could end up spending several thousand more for that and supplies.

[Craig Hogarth]

George:

There's quite a lot of equipment you'll need besides the laser. You could end up spending several thousand more for that and supplies.

That is no joke. I wish someone would have told me that a couple months ago. :)

[Keith Outten]

Why don't we put together a comprehensive list of supplies and equipment necessary to start a laser engraving business. I expect with such a large group we are unlikely to miss anything and a lot of people would benefit from such a list.

Who wants to start?
.

[Gary Hair]

George,
I am going to advise contrary to what everyone else has said. If you go at this endeavor part time it will most likely fail. Your "part time" sounds like it will be weekends only - again, this sounds destined to fail.

The only way you could make a go of it would be to do it full-time. But, if you don't have 12 months of expenses at your access then you are going to have a rough time of it. It still could fail but if you are generating some revenue then the 12 months of expenses could last for quite a bit longer than 12 months - make sense?

I say, fish or cut bait!

Gary

P.S. September 1st 2006 I quit my job. December 15th my wife quit her job. We are very glad we made those decisions and are positive it will work out - failure is not an option!

[Nancy Laird]

Why don't we put together a comprehensive list of supplies and equipment necessary to start a laser engraving business. I expect with such a large group we are unlikely to miss anything and a lot of people would benefit from such a list.

Who wants to start?
.

Keith, what a good idea! Can we start a new thread and make it a sticky for a while? It would probably help a LOT.

Nancy

[Mike Null]

George:

Mike McKenzie's idea is a sound one.

With the potential customer list you have shown us I truly doubt that you'll get $500 a month. These are not people who want to buy your product or service rather they are people who want to make money off your service. What you are doing is no more than an add on for them and if you try to get a fair price for your work you'll find that you aren't so welcome.

If you want to find out how committed they are to selling your service ask them to buy the samples.

Based on what you're telling us I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell of doing $3,000 a month let alone $6,000.

Sorry to be so harsh but I don't want to see you make a big financial mistake.

[Mike Null]

Keith:

Could we set your list up in the form of a pdf file so it could be downloaded?

Maybe include pictures of equipment and shop set ups.

[Gary Hair]

Why don't we put together a comprehensive list of supplies and equipment necessary to start a laser engraving business. I expect with such a large group we are unlikely to miss anything and a lot of people would benefit from such a list.

Who wants to start?
.

I think that's a great idea. You would need a few categories though:
1. Must have - the absolute basics (laser, dust collector, etc)
2. Must have if you do... (cermark if you want to mark stainless, rotary attachment if you want to do round objects, etc)
3. Nice to have - airbrush for cermark, rub n buff for paint fill
4. If you still have money left - ??? not sure about this one, I am not in that category :(

Gary

[Nancy Laird]

Don't forget suppliers! I see many posts here from people asking about where to get something. We were able to benefit from another's research, so someone else might as well be able to benefit too.

I still think it should be a sticky in the laser forum. What say you, Keith?

Nancy

[Belinda Barfield]

Nancy has a great idea with the suppliers list as well. Both lists would be of tremendous help to all of us newbs. Thanks for thinking of us!:D

[Phyllis Meyer]

Hi Gary, & Everyone!

I love that you used "Failure is not an option"! That's one of our motto's (lasered on our wall)! When we made our decision to purchase the laser, that had to be at the top of any list we started as we were weighing the whole picture. My husband does work full time (insurance), and I run this laser business full time. (Ok, my husband comes home from work, and works)! A committment of time, and perserverence in the bad times as well as the good is needed!

I would also look into the job offer, but also wondering if your friend could use a laser? How about your wife? Is she interested at all in the business? We have been in business now one full year, it's been an adventure! A great one! Everything was not perfect, but...failure is not an option! We are in a very small town, it can be done!

Sincerely,
Ron & Phyllis

[Ed Maloney]

I think that's a great idea. You would need a few categories though:
1. Must have - the absolute basics (laser, dust collector, etc)
2. Must have if you do... (cermark if you want to mark stainless, rotary attachment if you want to do round objects, etc)
3. Nice to have - airbrush for cermark, rub n buff for paint fill
4. If you still have money left - ??? not sure about this one, I am not in that category :(

Gary

- Must have - Graphics software, X3, etc.
- Exhaust system items, duct work, duct clamps, blast gates, outside venting fabrication
- Air compressor
- Electrical work if needed or power strips
- Trade subscriptions
- Floor wax, sandpaper, transfer tape
- Paper printer
- Stuff I missed

[James Stokes]

You also need a Shear, Corner notcher, Transfer tape and most of all plent of material to practice on.

[Dave Jones]

The suppliers list already exists and is the 3rd sticky at the top of this forum

[Belinda Barfield]

Dave,

I am aware of that sticky, and it is great. I was thinking more along the lines of a listing by material. If I need anodized aluminum I only have to look at that item, rather than reading each company's list of products. Guess it would be asking too much to have two lists. :(

[Keith Outten]

It could take awhile before I will be able to add any more work to my current schedule. I will give some thought to taking the information provided and making a list of "Stuff" that engravers need with catagories from must have to nice to have. Of course if anyone ealse wants to volunteer to create the listing that would be great :)

The suppliers list is pretty basic, we only list the bare bones information about the vendors products and their specialty. Keeping a comprehensive list would be another major project that I can't support right now. In addition to about two hours per day of Admin activity here each day i am working on a couple FreeStuff drawings and working with CW McClellan getting our new Shop Aprons going. I have several leather ovals to engrave this evening for the new aprons and there is the job of approving new Members that must be done several times each day. I have been spending lots of evening hours for the last few weeks doing some developement and design work for CNU, my sign backlog is getting close to two years now with no end in sight.

One last thing, the battery backup issue is getting more critical as we are now down to less than two minutes of battery life from the existing gear. Like it or not I have to make a decision and get something ordered ASAP.

My plate is full :)

.

[Marc Myer]

I'll have to chime in here, I'm a parallel example.
I bought my new laser in November, an Epilog mini. I had planned for some time to set up, learn software, and gain experience on the machine before expecting to make money. I too am a graphics guy with many years of eperience. It still took me much longer to get going that I had planned.
I also have a day job and hope to someday quit and do this creative work fulltime.
Everything is exactly as described by the sales reps and the others on this list: I lurked for years before doing this. Happy and satisfied? Absolutely. Successful? Not with money yet.
If I had a month to dedicate to this fulltime it would definitely become profitable. But every step along the way, while simple, is not as fast as I had anticipated. Small things can slow us down. While the laser itself is simple, the learning curve on your particular machine/material interface is necessarily time-consuming. I wish, for example, Adobe Illustrator would be more laser-friendly.
Complaints? none. I love doing this, even at night and fight sleep at work!

[Belinda Barfield]

Thanks for all that you do Keith! Sounds like your plate is overflowing! I would volunteer to help with the list, but as a friend of mine once said "I don't know enough to know what I don't know!". In other words, I would probably hurt more than help.

[Ed Maloney]

One last thing, the battery backup issue is getting more critical as we are now down to less than two minutes of battery life from the existing gear. Like it or not I have to make a decision and get something ordered ASAP.


I must have been sleeping at the laser. What is this battery backup issue?

[Nancy Laird]

Ed, this is a quote from Keith in another thread:

"Our annual funding drive is in November. In November 2006 we collected enough money to provide for our annual costs for 2007. Included in those costs were funds for a new server which needs to be replaced every three years. We currently have funds to cover a few new software modules for vBulletin, two more hard drives for our new server and a few bucks for an emergency. Our battery backup is a hand-me-down from Hampton Roads Online and is now an antique with about ten minutes of capacity. Replacing the battery backup will have to wait until our next fund drive unless a substantial number of the new Members who have joined us this year contribute."

The battery backup system keeps the entire board from going "hard down" in the event of a power outage in Virginia. It will keep the board up and running while Keith "drags out his generator", and will alleviate or avoid outages like we had a couple of weeks ago when the board was down for several hours. When the entire board goes down, it takes several hours for Aaron and Keith to bring it back up.

That's as much as I know; Keith will be able to enlighten you more.

Nancy

[Mike Hood]

I look at it with yet another twist... I'm retired military. I could jump in with both feet and "probably" eventually make it work full-time.

Instead... I'm working again as a systems engineeer at Boeing and I love the fact that I can pour $120K/year into a business that's gonna support me eventually. Paid cash for the laser, paid cash for the vinyl cutter, laptop, two PCs, network, website and merchant account, compressor, dust collection system, lighting and probably another $10K in supplies.

It makes working VERY easy knowing that each check puts me one step closer to having all the tools I'll need to be self-sufficient. I'm not free to play all day, but I will be soon enough. Meanwhile, business seems to build word of mouth faster than you'd imagine and I'm looking at building a dedicted shop or leasing a commercial space.

The steady cash of a 9-5 (when you've got a dream in mind) REALLY helps.... plus it's fun telling your boss your $25,000 laser just came in. :)

I say take the job... but get use you new income and spare time to get the business off to a good start.

[Keith Outten]

I must have been sleeping at the laser. What is this battery backup issue?

Ed,

When we shut down Hampton Roads Online in October of 2005 the majority of our Members here at SMC wanted us to keep The Creek running. I made a deal with my partners to acquire The Creek by accepting the companies debt in exchange for ownership of SMC. We had a few pieces of equipment from HRO that we were able to salvage, one of them was a battery backup that was a couple years old but in good shape. The battery backup protects our server, router. modem and hub from electrical surges and provides electricity for a period of time when we lose power.

When it was new we had about an hours time, the batteries are now down to about two minutes which takes care of short electrical flickers but not much else. Aaron and I have been looking at our options, it seems that there are low cost and high cost battery units but not much in between. In my mind the situation has reached the point of necessity, if we must use our emergency funds to cover the cost of a new unit that is what we will do.

Sorry for getting so far off-topic.
.

[Dave Jones]

Another option is a replacement battery. I reccently replaced the batteries in a couple of my older small UPS supplies. These were small units, so the batteries weren't too expensive. Larger units of course have larger more expensive batteries. If they're too expensive, that may not be a reasonable option.

[Keith Outten]

Dave,

Replacing the batteries is a good option. Our existing unit is a Cyber Power 1500AVR and is a nice unit. There is a battery specialty place in our local area that can get us replacement batteries, probably at a fair price. Aaron will have to bring our server and network down to remove the existing unit and then again when we have the new batteries. My problem is that if it takes one to three days to get it done any electrical interuption will cause our server to go offline and it could be down for hours if I am at work during the day.

.

[Bill Stein]

Keith,

Since you know the make and model of your UPS, the battery "store" should be able to sell you the correct battery without having to see the ones currently installed. I have replace my UPS batteries in several different units and there are only a limited number of "standard" batteries that it looks like everyone uses -- athough the number may vary (ie, does your flashlight use 2, 3, or 4 "C" or "D" batteries?). And it is a DIY job (especially for someone that is experienced with changing laser tubes :) ). So you would only have to take the system down one time and you would always have the UPS online while live.

Of course, Murphy may show up and the batteries turn out to not fit after you open the UPS. Not much you can do at that time except get all of the information off of the battery (model #, amps, etc.), get its measurements, type of connectors, etc. and put everyting back on line and return to the battery store. MAKE ARRANGEMENTS BEFORE HAND to make sure you can return the batteries. Most stores will not allow returns because they are concerned about people returning the bad ones instead of the recently purchased ones. But if you can talk to the owner/manager before hand, you can explain the situation and probably work something out.

Bill

[Bill Cunningham]

Dave,

Replacing the batteries is a good option. Our existing unit is a Cyber Power 1500AVR and is a nice unit. There is a battery specialty place in our local area that can get us replacement batteries, probably at a fair price. Aaron will have to bring our server and network down to remove the existing unit and then again when we have the new batteries. My problem is that if it takes one to three days to get it done any electrical interuption will cause our server to go offline and it could be down for hours if I am at work during the day.

.

Just sent a paypal donation Keith..

[Marc Myer]

I'm in the same boat: bought my new laser a few months ago, and chose to keep the steady job. I have WAY too many irons in the fire, and often say that if I had just two months away from work, I could get everything profitable.
I live in a high tourist traffic area, and the opportunities are endless. But the real task is getting proficient with the laser. The laser itself is great, but there's a lot of learning involved for each material, coating, and technique that require some trial and error. There's also software proficiency.
I should find out today about a nice 3000-piece order from a Japanese bank. That will be cool, but to get the job, I had to design several wood items from scratch and get really creative with the artwork. I love that part, but it isn't quick. And I think I speak for all of us when I say every piece we do must be perfect!
marc
35w Epilog

[Dave Fifield]

Keith, start a new thread in the admin/general areas about the back-up system age/need to get a new one etc. and ask for donations from anyone who can, and I'll bet you have the needed money in very short order. I for one will shell out a nice pile-o-cash to help. :)

Cheers,

[Keith Outten]

Thanks Bill for the donation and to Dave for the suggestion. I'm working on a solution.

I am still very interested in the possiblity of everyones input in an effort to put together a list of things every laser engraver must have plus the nice to have stuff. I think we would all be surprised at some of the things that would make the list and I know that the startups would really appreciate the collective knowledge.

My thoughts on engravers keeping their day job is that it is tough to bring up a new business part time. Keeping your day job is the safest way to go but it may increase your time line by a serious factor for getting your engraving business on its feet and profitable. When I got mine I was self employed and had the time to spend learning and developing techniques for most of the common engraving material types. I also had time to dedicate to marketing and promoting my new wares but it didn't help me become profitable any quicker than I might have part time in my case. My goal was to get into the commercial sign business and although I could knock them dead at meetings the end result was that I didn't have any commercial experience and was not considered as a qualified bidder for large building projects. No Resume' No Work :(

I did finally break into the business by landing a small job that was for a very large commercial building. The first job got me more work and in time I finally built a company resume that qualifies me to bid on large jobs. Had I been working a day job at the time it would have made things easier in the beginning. I eventually did find a day job that not only helped pay the bills it helped me market my sign work.

.

[Nancy Laird]

Thanks Bill for the donation and to Dave for the suggestion. I'm working on a solution.

I am still very interested in the possiblity of everyones input in an effort to put together a list of things every laser engraver must have plus the nice to have stuff. I think we would all be surprised at some of the things that would make the list and I know that the startups would really appreciate the collective knowledge.

.

Keith, I sent you a PM on Saturday or Sunday volunteering to help with this project, and haven't heard back :confused: . I'm still available to help if wanted.

I sent in a donation about a month or so ago specifically earmarked for the purchase of the battery backup. Hope this gets the ball rolling.

Nancy

[Mark Koenig]

George,
I am going to advise contrary to what everyone else has said. If you go at this endeavor part time it will most likely fail. Your "part time" sounds like it will be weekends only - again, this sounds destined to fail.

The only way you could make a go of it would be to do it full-time. But, if you don't have 12 months of expenses at your access then you are going to have a rough time of it. It still could fail but if you are generating some revenue then the 12 months of expenses could last for quite a bit longer than 12 months - make sense?

I say, fish or cut bait!

Gary

P.S. September 1st 2006 I quit my job. December 15th my wife quit her job. We are very glad we made those decisions and are positive it will work out - failure is not an option!

I totally agree with your statement about doing the business Full Time or it will Never get off the ground... The Wife has soooo many orders lined up waiting for me to get product to the market... I have the manufacturing experience and she does the sales and quality control... Jeez she's tough but has way better artistic skills...

I'm well within that 12 month grace period and have had enough with making the owners of my "Public Job" 155K a month @ 65% net profit with technology that I developed... They keep on demanding more and more for no additional compensation... Well, that ended yesterday...:cool:

Everyone is in different situations and there is a time to get "Froggy" and "Jump"... :eek:

Here I gooooooooooooooooooo............:D

Mark.

P.S> How would you like your fish cooked???

[Mike Null]

The question is, if you've got a $6,000 a month nut to crack can you do it?

If you can, more power to you, but that's better than anybody I know about who has only a laser to produce income.

[Keith Outten]

Keith, I sent you a PM on Saturday or Sunday volunteering to help with this project, and haven't heard back :confused: . I'm still available to help if wanted.

I sent in a donation about a month or so ago specifically earmarked for the purchase of the battery backup. Hope this gets the ball rolling.

Nancy

Nancy,

I'm still playing catch up but I am interested in your help. I will get back to you ASAP.

Thanks,
Keith

.

[Pete Thomas]

Keith, the CyberPower Model PR1500 uses 4 standard 12V 7AH batteries which are available at BatteriesPlus for about $30/each.
http://www.batteriesplus.com/images/Product/medium/28239.jpg


The batteries is also hot swappable,

Specifications
Model PR1500 / PR1500SWRM2U VA rating 1500VA Watts 1000W
Input Voltage range 85V - 150V
Frequency range 47Hz - 63Hz
Output Battery output voltage Pure Sine Wave at 120Vac +/- 5%
Battery output frequency 60 Hz +/- 1%
...
Battery
Maintenance Free Lead Acid Battery 7AH x 4
User Replaceable Yes, Hot Swappable Battery Pack
Typical Recharge Time 8 Hours

You could check the battery connections, typically .187 tab connections, if you pop out the battery pack, disconnect the old and connect in the 4 new batteries.

The folks at batteries plus could also replace the batteries in the battery pack. This would require to remove the battery pack which can be performed with the unit on, (hot swappable) this means no battery backup if you lose power. I don't know how prone you are to power outages but I would assume you don't have daily outages. This way you could have Batteries Plus install the new batteries.

Hope this helps.

-pete

[Keith Outten]

Thanks a million Pete. I will contact them and order a new set of batteries today

:)

[Chuck Burke]

George,

You have two options. Do or do not. I would suggest Do not. Take the job and work as hard as you can to make your laser business work in the time you have. Perhaps your friend would allow you to work longer days and maybe weekends so you could have your days off during the week to work your laser business....during which time you could drum up the business, or alternatively your wife could.

Then when you got home, you could have some fun working with the laser.

This comes from first hand experience. I had moved away from home for two years. I sold a profitable business and had a no compete clause with it. Things did not work out and we ( my wife and I ) came home. We could not run our old business because of the no compete clause. I figured I could start my laser business in not time at all...because I have a tremendous network of friends and associates..... I have been home for two years now. Last year I did a little over $20,0000 in the engraving business.....it can be tough to get started..... my two cents before taxes is take the job.

Regardless of your decision, I am sure I speak for everyone in wishing you the best of luck in your endeavor.

Chuck Burke
American Pacific Awards
Maui, Hawaii

[Keith Outten]

George,

Quitting your job and starting your own business is like Dirty Harry pointing his magnum in your face and asking if you feel lucky.

A gut wrenching decision has to be made :(

.

[David Lavaneri]

George,

I don't envy the position you face. I was in the same decision-making mode, toward the end of 1989.

I must confess, the thought of leaving a predicatable (albeit, low paying) and steady income, for a roll of the dice in the business world, was nothing short of terrifying.

Let's review:

1) You've already made the investment in equipment.

2) You already have the know-how.

3) You already have inroads to business-to-business relationships, which in my view, are the best source of repeat business.

What appeals to your passion?

1) Working for someone else, who dictates where you must work, what hours you'll work, what to do and when to do it?

That fits the description of a prison! :o

2) Working for yourself, where you'll have an undying passion for your work and the only limitations on your station-in-life will be your personal drive to succeed?

Note: If you don't inherently have that drive, the answer to your question is to take the day job.

If you do accept the day job, through similar personal experience, I can predict the outcome.

At some point, trying to work full time, while simultaneously trying to build an engraving business, you'll hit a point of "Critical Mass."

Your engraving business will build to a point where you're highly encouraged, yet not generating enough money to meet your overall monthly income requirements by itself.

The busier you become at the part time job, (the one you really like) the less sleep you'll get, to the point where you'll ultimately be of little use to either your full-time employer or yourself.

That's the point of critical mass, and when a firm decision, in either direction, will become absolutely unavoidable.

When I personally hit that point of critcal mass, I took comfort in one reassuring thought, which made my decison to become fully-self-employed, much less daunting.

The low-paying, boring day jobs will always be there!

In closing, I offer an adaptation of a familiar phrase.

Take no chances, make no advances.

Good luck with your decision.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

[Mark Koenig]

George,

I don't envy the position you face. I was in the same decision-making mode, toward the end of 1989.

I must confess, the thought of leaving a predictable (albeit, low paying) and steady income, for a roll of the dice in the business world, was nothing short of terrifying.

Let's review:

1) You've already made the investment in equipment.

2) You already have the know-how.

3) You already have inroads to business-to-business relationships, which in my view, are the best source of repeat business.

What appeals to your passion?

1) Working for someone else, who dictates where you must work, what hours you'll work, what to do and when to do it?

That fits the description of a prison! :o

2) Working for yourself, where you'll have an undying passion for your work and the only limitations on your station-in-life will be your personal drive to succeed?

Note: If you don't inherently have that drive, the answer to your question is to take the day job.

If you do accept the day job, through similar personal experience, I can predict the outcome.

At some point, trying to work full time, while simultaneously trying to build an engraving business, you'll hit a point of "Critical Mass."

Your engraving business will build to a point where you're highly encouraged, yet not generating enough money to meet your overall monthly income requirements by itself.

The busier you become at the part time job, (the one you really like) the less sleep you'll get, to the point where you'll ultimately be of little use to either your full-time employer or yourself.

That's the point of critical mass, and when a firm decision, in either direction, will become absolutely unavoidable.

When I personally hit that point of critical mass, I took comfort in one reassuring thought, which made my decision to become fully-self-employed, much less daunting.

The low-paying, boring day jobs will always be there!

In closing, I offer an adaptation of a familiar phrase.

Take no chances, make no advances.

Good luck with your decision.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

You couldn't have hit that nail on the head more squarely if you had a laser scope...

I quit the public job last month and I'm not looking back... Sheez... Wanted to do this to work less but now I put in 7 days a week!!!

Who cares... Better than sitting on the couch or making the "Boss Man" money at my expense...

Biggest bonus is that I'm having fun!!!

[David Lavaneri]

Mark,

What can I say? Some people discover the secret to happiness sooner than others. :)

For myself, it wasn't so much a matter of "not wanting to make money for the boss" than to decide for myself where I'd choose to work, to have control over which jobs I'd accept and those to decline and the flexibilty of my work schedule.

I'm not saying it was easy. There were some very tough stretches.

In fact, in one of my darkest hours, I actually had my fingers on the keys of my phone, in prepartion to reply to an ad from a company looking for an engraver.

The decision to call, which seemed like minutes, although it only took seconds, was very resolute.

I was too long out of the saddle. I'd already gone feral!

I couldn't be tamed to the point of jumping to demands from employers.

I'm willing to do a little arm-wresting with customers, but I can't be an employee again.

And that's very good news. :-)

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

[Bill Cunningham]

I left a teaching position at a Toronto College in 1989, I not only made a complete change of professions, (Commercial diving, teaching underwater cutting and welding, explosives, physics, and c language computer programming) to what started out as a software business, and over 18 years, morphed into a printing and promotional business:confused: But, the one persistent factor in EVERY small business, is 'Feast or Famine' it's always one or the other.. Some days your the hydrant, some days your the dog.. If you 'need' 6k a month, your going to have to aim for at least 9k. Not impossible, but as others here have said, your not going to do it with a laser alone

[Michael Bareno]

I think that's a great idea. You would need a few categories though:
1. Must have - the absolute basics (laser, dust collector, etc)
2. Must have if you do... (cermark if you want to mark stainless, rotary attachment if you want to do round objects, etc)
3. Nice to have - airbrush for cermark, rub n buff for paint fill
4. If you still have money left - ??? not sure about this one, I am not in that category :(

Gary

Hi,
While searching for old 'startup' posts i bumped into this one.
Was there ever a thread created that described the necessary items for starting up a laser engraving business?

I just purchased a used epilog mini and should be receiving it sometime this week. I want to make sure I am not overlooking anything and would like to have as much ready when it arrives.

Mike

[Scott Shepherd]

Was there ever a thread created that described the necessary items for starting up a laser engraving business?

Mike

1) Cash or credit (and plenty of it)
2) Ability to work on limited amounts of sleep for extended periods of time
3) Suspension of hobbies
4) Patience
5) See #1 :)

[Gary Hair]

Hi,
While searching for old 'startup' posts i bumped into this one.
Was there ever a thread created that described the necessary items for starting up a laser engraving business?

I just purchased a used epilog mini and should be receiving it sometime this week. I want to make sure I am not overlooking anything and would like to have as much ready when it arrives.

Mike

Mike,
Nothing was created that I know of. One thing I have learned in the last 18 months is that no matter how well you think you have prepared to start your business, you will have missed more than you will hit. Get your laser, get your customers and start working! Be open to new technology and experiment as much as you can. My motto was to "never say no" unless I have tried it before and I am absolutely positive it won't work. I don't have "I don't think so" in my vocabulary. That's what got me started in my business and what has generated a substantial amount of revenue in my first year in business.

Gary