Input Requested - Plane Purchase

[Rob Luter]

Greetings to all –
I’m facing a decision on a tool purchase and could use some input. I find myself needing another plane (surprise) for final smoothing, removal of mill marks, etc. as a final step before hand scraping. I’ve boiled it down to the Veritas Low Angle Smooth Plane (05P25.01) or the Veritas Bevel Up Smoother (05P36.01). As I see it, both will do the same job smoothing, with the Bevel Up Smoother being a bit wider. The Low Angle Smoother seems like it might be more versatile as it has squared side wings for shooting. I thought about a scraper plane but I figure that either one of these will work nearly as well with a high angle blade and a light cut.
Anyone compared the two in action? I’m thinking that the Low Angle Smooth Plane would be a better choice from the standpoint of versatility. The lower price helps too, allowing the purchase of an extra blade (50 Degree) for the curly QSWO I tend to work with.
Am I looking at this correctly? Should I consider other alternatives? Constructive input is welcomed.

[Wilbur Pan]

If you are using a lot of curly QSWO, I'd be worried that the low angle planes would give you a lot of tearout. My suggestion would be instead of swapping blades, to go with a standard #4 or #4 1/2 from Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen. You could even use a well-tuned used Stanley, if that is feasible for you. Either one will work well for shooting as well.

I've found that the low angle advantage for working endgrain is not as critical for smoothing planes, as the cut is usually so fine that the difference between a low angle and standard angle plane is minimal. For a jack plane taking thicker cuts, having a low angle plane will be more useful. Overall, grain tearout is a bigger problem for me when I am doing final smoothing plane cuts, so I'd rather have a standard angle plane instead of a low angle plane for this step.

[Andrew Williams]

To me it's a no-brainer. All the Bevel-up line have interchangable blades so that's what I would use.

[Tyler Howell]

I really like my LA planes by LV.
Let me make your decission a little harder.
Have you tried a wooden smoother.
There are some sweet ones out there. Mr knight does and excellent.

[Rob Luter]

The Bevel Up Smoother and the Low Angle Smoother are both bevel up designs and both have blade systems that are interchangable. The only differences seem to be width, the angle of the "standard" included blade, and the fact that the Low Angle Smoother isn't a dedicated smoothing plane like the Bevel Up Smoother. My goal is to buy one plane that will serve a number of roles, the first being to smooth prior to scraping.

I've got a #4 British Stanley that does OK, but real fine cutting doesn't seem to be it's best suit. The stability of the frog and iron leaves something to be desired.

[Andrew Williams]

I'm not aware of any other LV plane that uses the 2" bevel up blade. You would be buying blades for one plane. If you buy the BU series, each one comes with a blade (2.25") and you can switch them between planes, which I do.

[Wilbur Pan]

My goal is to buy one plane that will serve a number of roles, the first being to smooth prior to scraping.

I've got a #4 British Stanley that does OK, but real fine cutting doesn't seem to be it's best suit. The stability of the frog and iron leaves something to be desired.

I wouldn't try to force a plane to serve different roles. I've been down that path, and long story short, you're better off getting different planes.

Given your description of your current plane, I wouldn't let that be representative of a typical #4 experience. Any plane with an unstable frog and iron will not be able to make truly fine shavings. It doesn't mean that it's garbage, though. My neighbor has two #4's. One's a beater that he uses for rougher work, and another is a Lie-Nielsen #4 that he saves for making final smoothing cuts.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I found the LN LA Jack (or LV version) to be a great all around plane, it worked successfully as a jack, jointer, and smoother. And I still recommend it for someone's first plane.

Pam

[Robert Trotter]

Hi Rob,

I don't have a lot of experience with curly QSWO but I do have both the LA smoother and the BU smoother. You should check out Derek's reviews. Do a search. They are very different in feel. The BU smoother feels a lot heavier and has the feel that it sits low and solid on the surface. A nice feel that says I am here and I am going to do this for you. Just push me through and I'll do the work.:) The LA smoother is very light in comparison (in feel not actual weight though it is lighter) . When I first got the pair I opened the BUS first and it felt nice in the hand with mass. Looks nice and low and sleek, too. Then I opened up the LA smoother and it looked and felt a bit like a toy in comparison. (not really a "toy" but the presence of the plane and the feel on wood is just so much lighter and smaller) It is a very nice plane that says just shoot me around where ever you want and I'll do what you want me to do. I like both but for me I have differnt uses for them. I don't really intend to use them for shooting as I have the jack for that and the LN ajustable mouth block for small stuff. So for me they are are for smoothing. Actually I like the LA smoother with the light and manouverable feel for edge work on smaller pieces and I can see it probably being used a lot for trimming drawers etc. For me the BUS is for wider panels or where you want a bit of mass. Let the BUS do the work. I changed my action a bit and just let the plane do the work and it does nicely.

It has been mentioned that the blades on the LV LA planes are interchangable but that is only true for the BU smoother, LA Jack, and the LA jointer. The LA smoother has a smaller bade and can only be used on the LA smoother. This only really comes into effect if you have or plan on getting the other LA planes, though. if you are only getting one then it doesn't matter.

So I think you need to think about the kind of feel you like to work with. What is your favourite plane to use? And will it be for wide surfaces or do you need the agility of the LA smoother. By the way, just in case the image makes the BUS seem heavy and awkward, it is not. It is very manouverable and has a great feel to it.

Also as suggested, if it is to be a smoother only, you could look at the LN #4 or #4.5 and set it up just for your work and have it a dedicated plane. Or try some of the woodies. Japanese planes are nice too, but then that is another story.

Robert

[Jim Newman]

If I had to live with one plane only it would be the Lie-Nielsen Low Angle Jack as Pam said above. Most versatile plane around in my book as it can joint, hog or smooth equally well with the adjustable mouth and heft of the plane. That being said, I will also agree, don't try to make one plane be a "jack of all trades" as it takes much experience in planing, sharpening and a host of extra blades to pull this off. In my book, the cost of Lie-Nielsen planes is a value at twice the price at least and they look and feel even better! LN 4 1/2 with the High Angle Frog or a 55 degree smoother like the Knight Coffin Smoother and if you can afford it a Japanese Blade would be great choices. If you can find a coffin smoother old wood plane at 50 to 55 degrees with a good cast steel blade (meanig no pitting), that may be your most cost effective choice, but it does take some hard work to get them in good shape again. Some of the old cast steel blades are at least as good as current A2 steel....I have one that is actually considerably harder than my Lie-Nielsen A2 blades! Don't forget, this is a journey and you have only just gotten started! Good luck...it is all about how YOU choose to do it and what makes it fun!

[Chuck Harris]

I have the Low Angle Smoother with the different blades and love the performance of it. One of the nice features to condsider is the sides are ground square for shooting. It's become one of my favorite planes to use. Now it seams that I reach for the low angle instead of my dad's old Stanley #3 and #4 more and more.

[Rob Luter]

Thanks to all for the constructive input. As I've often found to be the case, an abundance of information makes for a tougher decision :D .

After consideration of comments by Pam and Jim, and after reading Derek's reviews over at WKFinetools.com, I'm wondering if I shouldn't give stronger consideration to the Veritas Low Angle Jack Plane. It seems like it has all the size and mass I'd ever need, and with the interchangable blades could resonably be expected to cover different jobs on the different grains I've been dealing with. The fact that they come pre-ground to the steeper angle is a plus too. If the quality is on par with the medium shoulder plane I purchased earlier this year I don't think I can go wrong. I'll be stopping by a Woodcraft this weekend and taking a look at the LN version too. I've seen their bronze #4 and it was really nice (ok, REALLY nice).

[Grant Lasson]

Rob,

I don't have any experience with the LV LA Smoother but I do own the LA Jack and the LA Jointer. I also have the full array of A2 irons (25, 38, and 50). I really enjoy them. The Jack is very versatile. I can use it for hours on end. Just switch iron angles to match the surface prep task. If I've honed the irons well then the finish is very good.

I use the LN #4 smoother (std angle frog). Honestly, I don't know how to compare the two different styles. The LN works great but I've been wondering if I should have stayed with LV for the whole lineup. The versatility and simplicity of the BU approach is very attractive. Just swap out an iron and you have a "new" plane.

[Eddie Darby]

I should like to point out that the LN blades are Cryo treated blades, and the LV blades are not. You have the option of running O1 or A2 with LV, while LN only offer A2.

[Roy Harding]

I have the LV BU Jack and Jointing planes, as well as the little "apron" plane, that I use as a block plane. They are all wonderful tools, and I'm glad I have them.

I have had the privilege of using LN planes owned by friends - they are ALSO wonderful tools - quality and workmanship seemed to be similar to my LV's, and he is very happy with them as well.

For me, the choice of LV was availability - I live in Canada, and Lee Valley was readily available to me when I was making the purchase. I understand LN is now becoming more widely available.

I don't think you can go wrong with either brand - although others have certainly made some astute observations above.

Roy

[Tim Dorcas]

If I could only get one plane, what would it be?

I bought the Lee Valley Low Angle Jack Plane. It was cheaper than the LN version and considering I have been working with Grotz hand planes, my LV LA JP works like a dream.

I still plan on getting the required set (Block, Smooth, Jointer, ect.) but this will do until I aquire more funds.

Tim

[E W Wilkinson]

Having taken the first step into the abyss, what is the advantage of bevel up vs. bevel down?

[Rob Luter]

I've got my mind made up.

I was at Woodcraft in Indy this past weekend and checked out the LN Low Angle Jack. It was really nice, however the Veritas version is the direction I'm heading for a few reasons:

1) Veritas has the alternate angle blades available, LN requires you to grind an extra standard blade to the alternate angle.

2) Veritas has set screws to control side to side movement of the iron, LN doesn't, and there's plenty of room for the LN iron to move. At a cap iron tension that would allow for minor cutting depth adjustments, a knot could knock the LN out of whack.

3) I liked the mouth adjustment (and stop screw) on the Veritas better than on the LN.

4) The Veritas bed is 1" longer and the blade is 1/4" wider than the LN.

5) I've read a couple of comparison reviews of the two that were favorable to the Veritas, despite the admitted preconceptions of LN superiority by the reviewers.

The LN was really pretty and a tool I would be proud to own, but pretty don't make 'em work better in my book. Price would have been about the same as they were prepared to extend a Memorial Day Sale discount well in advance of the actual scheduled sale in order to seal the deal.

Forging ahead, fingers crossed......

[Rob Luter]

Greetings to all,

I had a package on my porch last night!

The Low Angle Jack Plane really works well. I bought two extra blades so I have the 38 and 50 degree versions in addition to the 25 degree that comes with. All were tested on Red Oak and Maple. I've come to the conclusion that compared to this plane, my other bench planes are junk! With a minimum of fussing I was able to take everything from 1/16 thick curls to mere wisps from the oak, both edge grain and face grain. The Maple was predictably easier to work with given the same cutting depths. I jointed a Maple edge that was absolutely straight when finished, and the final shavings were full edge width, unbroken, and so thin you can read through them (now if I can just keep it 90 degrees to the face :o ).

[Andrew Williams]

I think you will be very happy with the bevel-up planes. I feel that it is a very logical design to avoid chatter and get just the right angle of attack. I don't worry about squaring my edges anymore. I use the bevel-up jointer with the fence.

[Rob Luter]

Andrew - Any experience with the magnetic fence? My Jack doesn't have the screw holes for fence attachment.