Airborne In Canada

[Ron Journeau]

Just came in from the shop, where I just experienced one of those turning moments that we could all do without. I was just starting to rough out a 15 lbs hunk of walnut when all of a sudden I found myself on the other side of the shop, on my knees, with blood dripping into my faceshield, glasses broken, and I still haven't found my roughing gouge. The screws that I used in the faceplate were apparently too short, and they unseated with "amazing alacrity" as I was bent over my work, slowly nibbling into the piece to start getting it round. It ended up behind the lathe, pulling a powerbar off the wall and re-arranging a few small shelves above the lathe. The important thing is that THE SHIELD HELD, even though it came into my face and tried to re-arrange what little the good Lord gave me, it protected me from an injury that I don't even want to ponder. Right now my glasses are all glued up with CA, my nose is throbbing, and my hands have stopped shaking, and I just wanted to pass on what you all already know, but I just want to re-inforce tonight. PLease, please , please wear your safety equipment when turning and using power tools of any sort, the few seconds it will take to reach out and grab the shield before you grab the gouge may be the best spent time in the shop, ensuring many more years of doing what we all love to do, spinning large unbalanced pieces of treetrunk 6-8 inches away from our faces.

Having said all that, the money I was saving up to buy a hollowing system is now going for a better face shield. Trend? Any wisdom from the unscarred ones? :)

[Gary Herrmann]

Glad it wasn't worse. I've got a Trend. I like it a lot.

[Jim Underwood]

Whoa...

Glad you're ok. These kind of things always scare the livin' daylights out of me.

I'm almost inclined to never spin anything but spindles when I hear these stories....

I'm using a Triton respirator and like it. My only complaint is that the fan seems a bit anemic, and can't keep up with the "fogger" when it's cold outside. It's plenty hefty enough to withstand a hit though.

Now if I can just save up enough money to get a buffing system, I'll buff all those scratches out of the windshield....:D

[Neal Addy]

Ron, that's scary to even hear about. Glad it wasn't worse. Thanks for posting this reminder!

I have the Trend and love it as a respirator but as a faceshield it isn't much better than a standard visor. The visor screen is flexible enough to give under pressure. It wouldn't stop a 15 lb hunk of wood any more than a cheap visor.

It's a great unit, so don't get me wrong. I just wouldn't want to see you buy it thinking it was a better faceshield.

[Jonathon Spafford]

WOW! That is sure freaky! Haven't yet had that happen to me... and I am hoping that it won't, but imagining it will! I am accident proned ;) Anyway... I am very glad you are alright and that it wasn't as bad as it easily could have been! Thanks for posting the warning!

[Jim Becker]

Ouch...'glad you are OK. Be sure you are still wearing safety glasses under a face shield (regular or "powered") as the large area of the mask can compress, as you found out, when whacked really hard with something.

(Umm, but I also hope you really didn't mean you were using a "spindle roughing gouge" on a big hunk of wood not meant to be a spindle...very easy to break and they can catch "hard" when trying to cut something in face-place orientation)

[Steve Kubien]

Glad to hear you are ok. Thanks for the reminder.

Steve Kubien
Ajax, Ontario

[Ron Journeau]

Yep, Jim, I also reminded myself to wear the safety glasses under the shield from now on, and no excuse, they are free from work, always have a couple of pair laying around in the car or whatnot. Have been looking at the triton, looks a bit beefier than the Trend, from what I can see in the pics, but as of yet have not found a Canuck supplier of the Trend to compare prices....wish I could afford the 3M like Bill G's....or a used assault tank.

(Head bowed) Uh Jim...ya caught me...was using 1 1/2 roughing gouge... but not from false bravado or hairy chested male thing machismo..I really didn't know not to use it...thanks for the heads up, was gunna try it again tomorrow, will belay that for now:o

[Jim Ketron]

Yep I agree with Jim B, all you need to turn a Bowl Is a bowl gouge.
all I use to turn a bowl is 2-3 tools bowl gouge, parting tool and sometimes a bowl scraper.
That was a close one Ron, consider yourself lucky!

[Jim Becker]

Bowl gouge (Irish grind) and pull-cuts will help you get an ornry blank into fine form in no time! And safely...

[Jonathon Spafford]

(Head bowed) Uh Jim...ya caught me...was using 1 1/2 roughing gouge... but not from false bravado or hairy chested male thing machismo..I really didn't know not to use it...thanks for the heads up, was gunna try it again tomorrow, will belay that for now:o

I used to do that because I didn't know better... thought you only weren't supposed to use them for the insides! Luckily I didn't have any major accidents, but I was always wondering why I kept getting catches ;) Anyway... you ain't the only one!

[Brad Schmid]

Ron, Glad your ok! it could have been alot worse.


will belay that for now:o
I hope you really mean "for ever":eek: The others already sufficiently filled you in on bowl gouges...

I always use big screws on faceplate work (usually #14 or sometimes #12 of adequate length) and always at least 8 or 12 screws (sometimes more depending on size), and have never had a blank disengage the faceplate. I have had large chunks of bark fly off though, and that's why I wear a 3M Airstream. It has protected me several times.

[Gordon Seto]

Ron,

Glad that you are OK and sharing the lesson.

The bigger the gouge, the bigger the catch. It usually breaks at the weakest link. If you used some beefier screws, the roughing gouge tang would have snapped off or the toolrest broke. That 1½" roughing gouge with long handle looks very substantial. It was reported that hundreds of roughing gouges with broken tangs were returned to CSUSA each year. That was why the push for name change to Spindle Roughing Gouge.

Gordon

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ron.........glad you weren't more seriously hurt! And thanks for the reminder!


And I thought NASA and I had the patent on launchings! I've had it happen a couple of times when a tenon broke on my bowl. It's indeed scarey! It also amazes me how far and fast those things can travel even though the lathe was turned down to it's lowest speed at the time!

[George Tokarev]

The screws that I used in the faceplate were apparently too short, and they unseated with "amazing alacrity" as I was bent over my work, slowly nibbling into the piece to start getting it round.

Drop about 70 US bucks or the equivalent into one of these Pin Chuck things. Easy and useful for roughing green or turning cured in safety, because they allow you to make everything a spindle turning until the very last.

Until then, remember to use your tailstock to hold things in place until they're rounded. Which you may do safely with any gouge you properly apply to the work. Might suggest that pull cutting puts you in the bark and splinter zone, while push only risks your knuckles. Not that I'd put on those hockey gloves to save mine from getting whipped by birchbark.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ron glad to hear you are ok. I have the Trend which I bought directly from them at about a 50 to 60 dollar savings. It is very comfortable, is lighter and is not as hot in the summer. I really like it.

[Jim Becker]

Drop about 70 US bucks or the equivalent into one of these Pin Chuck things. Easy and useful for roughing green or turning cured in safety, because they allow you to make everything a spindle turning until the very last....Which you may do safely with any gouge you properly apply to the work..

George, it's important to distinguish between "putting something between centers" and "spindle turning". In general, the vast majority of "spindle turning" has the wood grain running parallel to the lathe ways. Tools like a spindle roughing gouge work very well for these situations. In effect, you might be able to use one safely to rough a large end-grain bowl or vessel, although this turner will stick to his Ellsworth gouges.

Where spindle rouging gouges get into trouble is with grain that is crossway to the ways...so-called faceplate orientation. The alternating face and end grain places major stress on the tool, especially with the way they are typically ground. The chance of catches and subsequent tool breakage and possible personal injury are nasty...so much so, that the turning community at large is now saying that this is an improper tool for such work.

Using a pin chuck, or a screw chuck or any other accommodation will not change that. I'm not saying that one cannot choose to use "any gouge" if one prefers...and if you have the experience to do so, that's just fine. But there are many folks new to turning who don't understand the forces involved and those are the people who invariably "launch" a big hunk of wood or worse, the now-un-handled tool...sometimes into their own body.

Safety first.

[Harvey M. Taylor]

I agree with the longer screws, and would add: one of those three-wheel bowl steady rests would be in order when it comes time to move the tail-stock out of the way.

[Jim Underwood]

Nick Cook mentions a friend of his who did a similar thing with a spindle roughing gouge, and had the tool embed itself in his jaw. :eek:

I'll stick with those who avoid the use of this tool for faceplate turning.:)

[George Tokarev]

Nick Cook mentions a friend of his who did a similar thing with a spindle roughing gouge, and had the tool embed itself in his jaw. :eek:

I'll stick with those who avoid the use of this tool for faceplate turning.:)

Always makes us old folks wonder if we just have so many more people out there who don't think, or whether we really are losing our ability to do so.

Before your time, back into the seventies, there was no such thing as a cylindrical gouge. Hadn't been for as long as there were turners. Everybody used something similar to what we now call "roughing" gouges, and the "long and strong" versions used for reach over the rest were really expensive. Machining a flute in alloy steel became possible, was cheaper than forming and forging, and the "bowl" gouge was born. Then we had to learn how to grind and use it. As you'll notice from the number of ways it's done, we're still playing. Or, as I would contend, none is superior to the others.

We lost our collective memory in the interim, and now we blame the tool that did the job for so long.

It is a poor workman who blames his tools.

[George Tokarev]

George, it's important to distinguish between "putting something between centers" and "spindle turning".


Not if you define spindle as between centers as opposed to not between centers. Grain orientation is a confusing way, in my opinion. Means I can have a piece mounted on a faceplate, rotating around the long grain and it's a spindle?

Then there's the great truth of turning that it doesn't make any difference to the wood if it's rotating along the grain or across it. The gouge is a great equalizer, and if you proceed as you would in a long grain piece on a cross grain, cutting across the fibers and wedging downhill, it won't take long to discover it. Diameter is larger, but most people spin their smaller diameter stuff faster than large in the belief that it takes more energy to remove the same shaving from a smaller piece than a larger.

Look at the process not from the turner's point of view, but the turning, and you'll see it's true.

[Bruce Smith]

Ron, sorry to hear about your accident but it certainly is a good job you were wearing some protection like you know it could have been much worse. Check on this forum as well as some of the others as there is presently a couple of individuals in the process of purchasing either the Trend or the Triton, lots of good user information on the postings. I personally use the Triton (2 years) and really like it, no complaints. I sent you a Pm as they are presently on sale on this side of the border. Good luck on you decision.

[Mark Pruitt]

Bummer, Ron. I would just go with another face shield and a pair of Safety Glasses. I doubt that a Trend would have afforded you any higher degree of face protection.

I think I would hang the face shield you were wearing on the wall as a tribute to its doing its job.:)

[Glenn Hodges]

Sorry it happened Ron. Did you have the tailstock run up to the piece?

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Glad you are OK Ron.................how is the lathe :eek: ;) :D

I have the Triton, and I like it, got a great deal on it here in Japan (I do not know that the Trend is for sale here??). The face shield on the Triton is really beefy, and I have a lot more confidence in it surviving a direct hit than any face shield I've owned. The only thing I could think of that would be better, is a full face motorcycle helmet, with a similar fan and filter system built into it.

I was actually thinking about making one of these with an old full face helmet I have, but then the Triton came to me in such a great deal..... :rolleyes:

Be careful out there!

Cheers!

[Ron Journeau]

well, ordered the triton yesterday, on sale for 219 canadian, Busy bee mailed me today that it is already on the way, so it won't be long..

Mark, good idea, will mount the shield, scratches, blood and all, a real conversation piece...and yes, the tailstock was up and running, but not as fast as I was, trust me:o

[Jim Underwood]

It is a poor workman who blames his tools.

Yup...... that old Nick... he's such a poor workman.:rolleyes: