What do you think about this company...

[Everett White]

http://www.jamiesonlaser.com/lasersys/CMA/CMA.htm

I have "lurked" for a little while and have learned a lot from you folks. I was wondering if anyone has had any dealings with this company. I am looking the the smaller of the two listed on the page. $12,500.

Thanks for any advise!

j

[Allan Wright]

I don't know anything about them, but some of their products seem strangely familiar to the products offered by the Chinese manufacturers.

[Everett White]

yeah, I know the feeling but the warranty is for "up to 2 years".

[Gary Hair]

The one thing I see in the specs is the 2" height dimension - you only have 2" of vertical movement? How would you engrave something relatively simple, like a wine bottle?

Gary

[Joe Pelonio]

http://www.jamiesonlaser.com/lasersys/CMA/CMA.htm

I have "lurked" for a little while and have learned a lot from you folks. I was wondering if anyone has had any dealings with this company. I am looking the the smaller of the two listed on the page. $12,500.

Thanks for any advise!

j
The fact that they are water cooled usually means a glass tube, and manufactured in China. There has been a lot for discussion on that before, though not on this particular company as far as I remember. The prices are a lot less but the quality is not really know yet, since we don't have people using them and reporting back.

[Larry Bratton]

Everett:
I looked at those machines before I bought my Epilog. One downside to these machines that I see right off is that they are driven by stepper motors, instead of servos. That's in addition to the Z height. Plus, I like to buy American products that have good support reputations. I can't imagine having to mess with something that is water cooled. Their's not any real track record on these machines ,as far as this forum goes anyway.

[Everett White]

Thanks for the advise. It seems I will likely turn away from this one due to the 2" depth. Also the impression of Chinese workmanship/support I get from this forum isn't really something to sing about.

I will keep looking (and lurking) around here untill I am in a position to buy.

This site is very helpfull and I continue to learn and enjoy it. Thanks all!!

j

[Bruce Volden]

Everett:
I looked at those machines before I bought my Epilog. One downside to these machines that I see right off is that they are driven by stepper motors, instead of servos. That's in addition to the Z height. Plus, I like to buy American products that have good support reputations. I can't imagine having to mess with something that is water cooled. Their's not any real track record on these machines ,as far as this forum goes anyway.

I have 2 older machines which utilize steppers exclusively and have NEVER had
ANY problems with them. On the other hand, my servo driven TT has had lots
of occurences trying to find "itself". Servos, for the most part, rely on peripheral input to know where they are at. Steppers work on pulses / one shots to increment. If you ever get a "fuzzball' in your encoder read head, or even a dirty encoder strip you'll quickly learn about servo's "being better" while watching your machine crashing around trying to find out where it's at! This is not to rag on anyone as both these devices are equally good and have a place in the industry. That being said I prefer the servo systems as they are much quieter, but also more finicky ;)


Bruce

[Ralph Lindberg]

Everett
I compared several of their models vrs known Chinese models, they are exactly the same.
That being said, you would be paying for the longer warranty. http://www.jamiesonlaser.com/lasersys/HX/HX.htm is $4900, while this one http://www.a4dableww.com/40a.htm is $1880, with roughly half the warranty period, for less then half the price.

Now, I have been visiting some of the forums (like A4dable's) and it appears that these units are (probably) worth what they are asking (in general). They are not just junk, but they probably not up to a production environment where they are expected to run all day.

[Larry Bratton]

To each his own. That point could be argued forever I suppose. The general thinking by most manufacturer's is that servo driven system are more accurate.

[Scott Shepherd]

Having servo motors was a must have when we were considering brands of lasers. I've been around machine tools for a long time, actually since they were just coming out with CNC machines in the shops (well, actually NC at the time), and I've seen, ran, programmed, and fixed a lot of machines, and that experience led me to disregard any machines without servo motors.

That was a different industry than the lasers, so it might not make a rats behind difference in the laser world, but my personal preference is always buy into technology.

We were quoted $2500 more for a machine that was roughly the same size, but it had stepper motors. That bit lost the sale for them.

[Rodne Gold]

www.techno-isel.com/H840/PDF/004.pdf (http://www.techno-isel.com/H840/PDF/004.pdf)
Look at the end of the article for a stepper/Servo comparison

[Mike Null]

I think before you condemn machines without servo motors you should have a look at Universal.

They're one of the most highly respected and trouble free machines on the market and at the time I bought my latest machine I'm quite sure they were offering only stepper motors.

[Scott Shepherd]

Please note I did say that it may not make a difference in lasers, but it makes a huge difference in the field from which I came, which is what my input was based on.

Steppers might be just fine for lasers, but when someone quotes me a higher price for a lower cost drive system, then I stop considering them.

I am sure that both systems work fine, and since the parts are all brand new, I'm sure both will do a good job. It's my personal preference to use closed loop servo systems.

[Everett White]

Wow, hehe I feel like I just pointed out the pink elephant in the corner of the room...

I have no experience with either motor. But I am counting on and learning from the experience from everyone in the forum. I will purchase a laser in about 2 years. I know its a while out but I have to pay off some medical and other bills first. I will take the time to learn before I jump.

Thanks all!!
j

[Mark Anderson]

It is true that most of the Chinese lasers are almost identical in appearance and most all have glass tubes. Most of the horrific stories originating with these lasers are due to NO technical support, POORLY written manuals, and DOA machines arriving at the door of the person importing it. That being said, there are some US distributors starting to import and warranty Chinese lasers. I am considering buying this laser: http://www.brightstarlasers.com/LG500.htm
A two year warranty (including the laser tube) with the rep setting up the machine and providing training for the software makes me feel a little more "warm and fuzzy" about the purchase. The sales representative is very knowledgeable and has been very responsive to any and all questions. ;)

[Mike Null]

At the risk of raining on your parade I will point out that a sales rep is not tech support. We have only two exceptions to that rule that I'm aware of after nine years in the business. Both are members of this forum. Realize that a rep makes money by selling.

Yes, a good reputation is valuable, but reality is that these guys can't afford to offer tech support and generally they are not capable of offering tech support.

In the real world, once the sale is made your rep is off to sell sometbody else.

I have worked with Epilog, Universal and Trotec. In all cases the reps were non-entities as far as tech support was concerned.

On the other hand all three of these companies have very good tech support and parts supply at their headquarters.

[Mark Anderson]

Mike,
I would agree with you wholeheartedly in regards to support and parts availability being a crucial part of purchasing a laser. I have had excellent technical support from Epilog. The Brightstar website says they offer 24/7/365 support. Have you had any experience with them that would say otherwise? :confused:

[Larry Bratton]

Mark:
Those look pretty good. That 80watt with the big table especially. These vary from the ones in the original post in that the one I am speaking of has a Z of 15". That's sure a good price, especially with that warranty. No servos though, but for the money difference.. Let us know how it goes if you buy it.

[Mike Null]

Mark:
My only direct experience was with the 3 companies I mentioned. I am a daily visitor to two engraving forums and can't recall seeing any discussion about them.

[Keith Outten]

A couple old sayings come to mind;

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price.

Let the buyer beware.

Not that these laser engravers aren't an excellent bargain but like any new product line those who are first to purchase are the ones who take the initial risks. Given the fact that very few have any first hand information concerning Chinese laser engravers there is definately a high risk factor involved purchasing them at this time. People will buy them and reports will start showing up in the near future. The question is whether you prefer to take the risk or wait for the reviews.

I expect that even if the Chinese have problems in the beginning they will eventually work out the bugs and produce a reasonably good quality machine. When they do the North American manufacturers will be forced to reduce their prices or suffer a loss of their market share.

My last thought is the impact that less expensive laser engravers will have on the engraving business. I expect that many will purchase their own machines and do their own engraving when they feel it is in their best interests financially.

.

[Garry McKinney]

I have an epilog ext and I have had a problem with one of the motors. It was replaced , but in my conversation with the tec, I used the statement servo motor, when he informed me , that the motor in the epilog is not a servo motor, but simply a high speed motor.

[Dave Jones]

There is a type of motor called a servo motor that has a built in shaft encoder. On newer Epilogs the X axis uses a seperate encoder strip and motor. So on those the X axis motor is a "motor in a servo system", but technically speaking is not a "servo motor".

[Peck Sidara]

The Epilog EXT/Mini/Helix uses a servo motor. A servo motor requires feed-back to determine position. In some cases as Dave Jones has stated the encoder is built into the motor in the form of a rotary encoder with reader. In our case, we've simply removed the rotary encoder w/ reader and repositioned it as a linear encoder for better positioning and accuracy.

There's still feedback to and from the motor therefore, we consider our systems to be a servo motor with linear encoding technology.

Hope that helps answer the question of what type of motors are used in the Epilog line of lasers.

[Larry Bratton]

I absolutely agree with you Keith. All of us have worked hard to be able to afford these expensive machines. It gives us sort of an elite status. Kinda like owning a Mercedes. We have an ability to do things that others can't do. Now, the Chinese machines put this capability in the reach of a whole lot more folks than before. Always my luck, I make an investment and think I am going to have some unique capabilities and then something comes along to make that capability old hat. That's kinda sad :( BUY AMERICAN! (and don't say Mercedes aren't American, not that I own one,I have a plant that manufactures them about 50 miles from here)

[Mark Winlund]

I have a stepper driven ULS (X2-660) that has serious problems with resonances in the machine causing bad quality output above 5% speed (in vector mode). I have had the machine for 4 or 5 years, and have not had much success resolving the problem with ULS. My Haas mill weighs 14,000 lbs, has a table that must weigh 500 lbs, and the table can move faster and change directions faster than the ULS.

I have pretty much given up trying to get ULS interested in resolving this. Too bad on a machine that cost over $41,000.

Servos ARE better than steppers.

Mark

[Jacqui Marlin]

A two year warranty (including the laser tube) with the rep setting up the machine and providing training for the software makes me feel a little more "warm and fuzzy" about the purchase. The sales representative is very knowledgeable and has been very responsive to any and all questions. ;)[/QUOTE]


***Mark ~ have you made the purchase from this company and if so, how has it gone so far? If not, what decided you against it?

Thanks, Jacqui, Goddess of Chaos GSOLFOT

[Jacqui Marlin]

I saw your post re BrightStar and wrote a note after I looked at their web site. I couldn't believe that I received a long and very reassuring email from them on a Sunday holiday weekend! NOW to find out if anyone here has purchased anything from them and are they as good as they sound?

Jacqui, Goddess of Chaos, GSOLFOT

[Dean Carpenter]

Servo v stepper: not that old chestnut again!!

in short: if you want to high-speed engrave then servo wins hands down.

For cutting though, in my experience, you'll not notice any significant difference for your average low power laser cutting job.

On the reliability issue: brushless servo with radial encoders are the best I've ever used BUT they are massively expensive when compared to a decent stepper.

Choose the right horse for the right race.

Dean

[Harry Radaza]

I'm very curious about the a4dable portable laser. Is it made in china ? Any experiences working with this particular machine ?

We deal with a lot of plaques and I would love to have a small machine (maximum table size 8"x12") accomodate these jobs on the spot at a mall setting or somewhere nearby.

Any ideas for a laser this small ? costs ? plus/negative factors ?

[Niklas Bjornestal]

I dont have their laser, but i have a chines laser, a RedSail RS3040 (www.hflaser.com) .
I think it was worth the money it costed ($2500 incl. shipping to sweden), but if I could afford it I would go for a Epilog/LaserPro/...

The RS3040 works quite well for engraving, but is alot slower than US lasers (probably... i dont have any other laser to compare with :) ).
The only downside that i see (when engraving) is that you cant change the resolution in one direction (it's possible to specify that it should engrave every 2nd or every 10th line for example, but it will always have a resolution of 1000 dpi at every line).

When cutting its not that good. When cutting the laser beam is on constantly at the same power and since the laser head moves twice as fast in one direction it cuts much deaper in the slower direction.

One other thing to consider is that 40W in a Chinese laser isnt the same as for example a 40W Epilog.

My experience buying from china is only good. The company was quick to answer e-mails, the delivery was fast and the machine was very well packed. So before you buy from a US reseller check how much it would cost you to import the laser yourself.

To summerice if you need a cheap laser, buy a chinese one, but if you can afford it I would recommend to buy a "real" laser.

[Craig Hogarth]

I'm very curious about the a4dable portable laser. Is it made in china ? Any experiences working with this particular machine ?

We deal with a lot of plaques and I would love to have a small machine (maximum table size 8"x12") accomodate these jobs on the spot at a mall setting or somewhere nearby.

Any ideas for a laser this small ? costs ? plus/negative factors ?

This was the laser I was considering until I found this site and I'm happy I went with a US laser.

A4dable's user manual can be found at http://www.a4dableww.com/mnls/

Their (not very active) forum can be found at http://www.fishinfoolz.net/phpBB2/index.php

Something to consider setting up at the mall would be exhaust, compressor, and water pump if water cooled. This probably would not be allowed if you were going the kiosk route. Universal does have a self contained air cleaner that I believe would allow you to operate without the need to vent outside, but I'm not too positve about that.

I do a lot of plaques as well and very rarely do I get a request for an 8x10. The majority are 12x15 followed by 9x12. The 8x12 table may not be sufficient if you want to grow.