Quick and easy drawers with Domino

[Todd Solomon]

I know, I know, the Domino subject has been beaten to death recently. Well, it saved my bacon last night, so it deserves some honorable mention...

Flashback to last night. My 1-year old, Antonio, busted the front off of one of our kitchen drawers, the night before a bunch of inlaws are coming to visit. It's amazing how cheap they build some tract homes these days- stapled-together, particle board drawer boxes? Come on.

Uh oh, no time to make dovetails, and I don't have dovetailable material any way. Just some 1/2" maple plywood, no baltic birch or solid wood. What to do?

What the heck, I'll see what I can do with the Domino. Wow, I cut all of my mortises in a few minutes, that was fast. I've never made a drawer this quickly, even with a quick-n-dirty drawer lock bit.

What I liked about using the Domino for the drawer:

The joints are tight, square and relatively solid. Not as good as dovetailed, but pretty strong
No set-up time. Did I say this thing is fast?
The 30mm long Dominos fit perfectly, without need of trimming it to length. Because the Domino cuts about 2mm deeper than the 16mm depth setting, the tenons fit flush to the side of the drawer ( drawer is 12.7mm thick + 16mm plunge depth + extra 2mm = 30.7mm total depth). Cool, this made the joints even faster to make.Other comments:

If I were to do it over again, I would make the front and rear out of 3/4" ply, not 1/2". This is because the 5mm (.2") thick Domino is a little on the thick side for 1/2" material (violates the rule-o-thumb of making the tenon about 1/3 the thickness of the substrate). If I were to go 3/4", I could step up to 6mm (.24") thick Dominos, and be below 1/3 of 3/4". You can stick with 1/2" drawer sides, if you wish.
Another motivator for using 3/4" fronts and rears, is that the Domino's fence won't slide far enough to allow the tenon to be centered in the 1/2" thickness. But, it will allow centering in 3/4" thick material. You can use a spacer between the substrate and the Domino fence, but that's less convenient than the typical plunge-n-go that Domino is famous for.
The Dominos are not ideal in strength for solid drawers, because of the minimal long-grain to long-grain glue surface. Still, the Dominos fit so tightly that I think it's one of the stronger joints, next to dovetails and box joints.
Another thing I'd do differently next time: I'd plunge through the drawer side and front (or back) simultaneously, then plunge deeper in the front (or back), to allow me to use the minimum width mortise setting (matching the width of the Domino). I had used the slightly elongated setting in the drawer front and back, and that ate up a lot of material, leaving less meat between the Dominos.So, would I use the Domino for drawers in the future? Definitely yes, for shop cabinets, or something that speed matters more than strength. For fine furniture or a custom kitchen, I'll stick to dovetails. But hey, Domino saved the day. Kitchen is put back together in record time, the night before the inlaws arrive.

Todd

[Roy McQuay]

Thank you for sharing Todd. I just got mine and like seeing all the things it is good for so I can justify the cost.

[John Lucas]

Todd,
Thank you for sharing. A good fix. Let me add a few thoughts. 1) your drawer side looks great and probably is as strong as most joints including some DTs. The tenon is all across the joint so very strong. ALL the vector force of opening and closing is in the fore and aft direction and you have that fixed.
As to the rule of thirds, I know I have quoted that many times. When the tenon is out of the primary stock, I think it is applicable. For this application, the 5mm is probably as good as the 6 or 8...just ask your self the question, will any of these Domino tenons be snapping off - NO...in that case 5 is as good. If drawers are of manmade or ply, the 5mm may be better. When the joint suffers from tearout of the side or front, part of that is sometimes due to the amount of stock removed for the mortise.
I have made a lot of drawers testing these tenons. I am also a DT woodworker. The Domino is way easier, faster and more accurate. Try this, use Domino tenons from now on and have a rubber stamp made of a DT joint...a little stain.... Nah. Now, I have gone too far.

[Rob Haskell]

I've been using pocket hole screws to screw the fronts and backs into the
sides. This looks almost as fast and has a decorative joint with the exposed tenons. Thanks for the pictures.
Rob

[Rod Sheridan]

Looks good, since I don't have a Domino, I normally use box joints for utility drawers, probably slower to make than your method......Rod.

[Bob Farrell]

If the Beech dominos are stronger material than the drawer sides, wouldn't a joint made of dominos (using the the "through" method illustrated here) be stronger than dovetails?

[Roy McQuay]

If the Beech dominos are stronger material than the drawer sides, wouldn't a joint made of dominos (using the the "through" method illustrated here) be stronger than dovetails?I don't know about stronger, but definitely faster and easier. However, if I am doing fine furniture, I would still want dovetailed joinery. Anything else will do with this Domino technique for me. Just my opinion.

[Todd Solomon]

Todd,
Thank you for sharing. A good fix. Let me add a few thoughts. 1) your drawer side looks great and probably is as strong as most joints including some DTs. The tenon is all across the joint so very strong. ALL the vector force of opening and closing is in the fore and aft direction and you have that fixed.


Thanks John and others for your feedback.

John,

I agree that the mechanical strength of the joint is good. One thing that has me curious is the strength of the glue joints. If this were made of solid wood, then there wouldn't be much long-grain to long-grain glued area, so I would think that the glue joint wouldn't be as strong is with a dovetail joint. Do you agree?

But, since this is plywood (with differing grain directions in each layer), do you think the strength glue joint is sufficient? The more I think about it, this method seems plenty strong with baltic birch, especially if the front and back were 3/4".

As far as aesthetics, the joints actually look kind of nice. Not as pretty as a hand-cut dovetail, but not too shabby.

Todd

[John Lucas]

Todd, good questions but I can't answer definitivly. I do think the mechanical joinery is as or more important than the glue. People are using pocket hole* screws which is almost all glue effect...so that speaks well for the other than mechnical side. I use 3/4 ply for drawers in shop and various corner cutting methods from DTs to lockmiter. All are holding together fine. But I dont slam them shut. Kitchen cabinets put drawer to much greater destructive testing...courtesy of some kids (and wives). In some way, that is why Blumotion slide and door closures are becomng so popular...hard to break those joints.

* on pocket holes. I love them for some uses...namely face frames. But when you use for making or "strengthening" butt joints, the glue is doing the work, not the screw. Just take a look at the amount of screw in the receiver piece. The pocket screw is great for pulling the joint together when glueing...in place of clamps. If you put a drawer together without glue but just the pocket hole screws...the life of the joint would be short.

[frank shic]

if you want any even faster method, consider switching to the metabox. I built 36 drawers in 1 hour last week!!!

[Peter Stahl]

if you want any even faster method, consider switching to the metabox. I built 36 drawers in 1 hour last week!!!

Frank, Where do you get the metabox's from?

[Peter Stahl]

Todd, Now you need to do the rest of the drawers. They look good, should hold up fine in your kitchen.

[Todd Solomon]

if you want any even faster method, consider switching to the metabox. I built 36 drawers in 1 hour last week!!!

Those are pretty cool, Frank. I've seen 'em, and have always wondered how they would be to use.

Todd

[Mike Henderson]

I'm not puttng the Domino down, but it seems to me you could do the same thing with a drill and dowels and get the same outcome, especially in plywood. Might take a few more holes.

Mike

[Todd Solomon]

I'm not puttng the Domino down, but it seems to me you could do the same thing with a drill and dowels and get the same outcome, especially in plywood. Might take a few more holes.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Dowels aren't typically as mechanically strong as mortise and tenon joints, and neither are their glue bonds. I needed something strong enough to hold up to a couple more years of my energetic boy, Antonio. We'll see how long this drawer holds up!

Todd

[Mike Henderson]

Hi Mike,

Dowels aren't typically as mechanically strong as mortise and tenon joints, and neither are their glue bonds. I needed something strong enough to hold up to a couple more years of my energetic boy, Antonio. We'll see how long this drawer holds up!

Todd
The dowels in a drawer side are resisting the pull when you open the drawer. The glue is only holding the dowels in place. I can't imagine any difference in the holding capability between putting a number of round dowels in, compred to a lesser number of elliptical Domino dowel.

Screws or nails would have also worked although many people would not find them as attractive as the exposed wood of the Dominos or dowels.

Mike

[fRED mCnEILL]

"But when you use for making or "strengthening" butt joints, the glue is doing the work, not the screw"

My understanding, from watching the Kreg demos, is that glue isn't required for this joint.

Fred Mc

[Todd Solomon]

The dowels in a drawer side are resisting the pull when you open the drawer. The glue is only holding the dowels in place. I can't imagine any difference in the holding capability between putting a number of round dowels in, compred to a lesser number of elliptical Domino dowel.

Screws or nails would have also worked although many people would not find them as attractive as the exposed wood of the Dominos or dowels.

Mike

I hear you, Mike. One could design a dowelled drawer that is as strong as a mortise and tenon joint, in this case. I guess I'm not a big fan of the dowel joint, as in many uses, there are disadvantages. Dowels don't prevent twisting, dowels are weaker in bending, and they are weak when a force is trying to seperate the joint, because of the lack of long grain to glue to. But for this drawer, maybe they'd be fine.

As for screws or nails, I don't think that the joint would be as strong as with either the Dominos or dowels. But, to each his own. There are a hundred ways to skin this cat.

Todd

[Dave Rudy]

Todd,

Here's a thought -- what if you made your own dominoes out of -- say -- ebony or some contrasting wood.

IMHO, I believe that the Domino can make really beautiful drawers, and then the only reason we'll stick to dovetails is tradition. In time, thinking outside the box may recognize these floating tenons as an aesthetic alternative to dovetails even on fine furniture drawers.

Dave

For example, this drawer design looks quite attractive to me:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=559923&postcount=9

[Mike Henderson]

Todd,

Here's a thought -- what if you made your own dominoes out of -- say -- ebony or some contrasting wood.

IMHO, I believe that the Domino can make really beautiful drawers, and then the only reason we'll stick to dovetails is tradition. In time, thinking outside the box may recognize these floating tenons as an aesthetic alternative to dovetails even on fine furniture drawers.

Dave

For example, this drawer design looks quite attractive to me:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=559923&postcount=9
Using the Domino dowels in regular hardwood for drawers would not be the strongest solution. In Todd's application, he used plywood which gave him two grain orientations facing the flat part of the Domino dowel. With regular hardwood, the majority of the wood facing the Domino dowel will be end grain which would not glue well. Additionally, the wood between the Domino dowel and the end of the board would be short grain which would be weak and prone to failure.

The Domino system has some very good applications - to speed joinery where a traditional mortise and tenon would properly be used. When you try to push it into other applications, you need to carefully investigate the joint and the strengths and weaknesses of it. I just don't see attaching drawer sides as being a good application for Domino.

Mike

[frank shic]

peter and todd, i get the metabox parts from woodworkers hardware. i'll do a small editorial on how to put together a drawer with them sometime. all you have to do is cut a bottom, a back, bore some holes and the whole thing goes together in a manner of minutes. there are several advantages to metaboxes: increased storage space, greater strength (you can actually STAND in the drawer after the cabinet is installed) and they don't take up much room until you're ready to assemble them and they don't require any finishing!!!

[Todd Solomon]

Todd,

Here's a thought -- what if you made your own dominoes out of -- say -- ebony or some contrasting wood.

IMHO, I believe that the Domino can make really beautiful drawers, and then the only reason we'll stick to dovetails is tradition. In time, thinking outside the box may recognize these floating tenons as an aesthetic alternative to dovetails even on fine furniture drawers.

Dave

For example, this drawer design looks quite attractive to me:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=559923&postcount=9

Dave,

I agree, that drawer is striking. I also love the Domino construction of the carcass of the hall table- efficient to make, and nice and strong.

I agree with Mike, though. I'm not sure if the Dominos will be as strong in solid wood, for the drawers. But they worked great for my plywood drawer box, and got me out of a jamb.

Todd

[Terry Fogarty]

Todd thanks for the compliment on that drawer. Before i made it for use in the hall table, i made a test piece to test for strength. And i can honestly say it took a tremendous amount of force before the join split. I couldnt see a drawer made with Dominos giving way in any domestic situation:)

[Todd Solomon]

Todd thanks for the compliment on that drawer. Before i made it for use in the hall table, i made a test piece to test for strength. And i can honestly say it took a tremendous amount of force before the join split. I couldnt see a drawer made with Dominos giving way in any domestic situation:)

Terry,

Beautiful work! I believe you on the joint strength- I was thinking after my post, that for a fine piece of furniture, it's not going to see high stresses any way. And I bet it's substantially stronger than the drawer my son broke. That hall table is one of the finer examples of a piece done with the Domino.

Todd

[Brian Jarnell]

Thank you for sharing Todd. I just got mine and like seeing all the things it is good for so I can justify the cost.
Ditto.

Had mine a week and found jobs for it,that I had't thought of.

[Greg Portland]

3.5yr old post revived to say "me too"?

[Will Overton]

3.5yr old post revived to say "me too"?

OK, I'll say it ... "Me Too" :)

next-

[michael case]

Hey Todd,

Cute story. There has been a lot said already so I"ll keep it simple. The drawer will probably hold up because of its obvious mechanical strength and because of the plywood cross sections provide some appropriate glue contact. Needless to say with solid wood all you would have is end grain contact and it would probably eventually fail. I've found smooth shop-made tenons glue up much, much, better than the engineered dominos with their uneven impressed surface which actually decreases actual glue surface. In this situation where glue contact is minimal smooth tenons which improve glue contact might be desirable. .

[Joe Chritz]

Just tossing this out there but you original drawer failure wasn't a failure of the joint. The staples and glue was plenty strong, at least on one side. The substrate itself gave way.

We often over engineer things. All the mentioned systems make for solid drawers. Myself, I use pocket screws (I have no domino :() for economical builds and 1/2 blind dovetails for upgrades.

I have thought seriously about using the metal box runners sometime. Maybe on the next one.

Joe

[Brian Jarnell]

. Myself, I use pocket screws (I have no domino :() Joe
What a terrible thing for you to have to admit.:o