Refinishing hardwood floors advice

[James Leonard]

Hi,

I have an older (1957) home in Southern California. I recently built a master suite on top of my garage, now we are going to start remodeling the downstairs area. When I had my home office redone, there were hardwood floors there. I am expecting to find the same in the living room and the hallway leading to my step daughter's room. My new wife does NOT like carpeting so I know she will want the hardwood floor once she sees it.

Can I get some advice / links / ideas about refinishing these floors?

-James Leonard

[Quinn McCarthy]

James

I am no expert but here it goes.

I always rent a drum floor sander, an edge disk sander, and a floor waxer type sander.

The first thing I usually do is go over the floor and make sure everything is off the surface of the floor. Like old carpet backing and glue. Then I go around and sink any nails that show up on the surface. I usuallly fill them with a putty to match the wood. If you have spots in the floor that are damaged you will have to replace them. Take the moulding of around the room. STart with the drum floor sander with 60 grit belt. Be careful when you start it or you will go for a ride. WOrk back and forth diagonal to the grain of the wood. Usually aftr the floor is cleaned up I go to the edge disk sander and clean up the edges. Have a good sharp scraper for the areas that you can't reach with the sanders. Make sure to never stop with the drum sander you will leave a divit that will be tough to remove. I also have somebody to manage the cord. You don't want to hit that. After you have the floor clean you can start working to finer grits. When you do that you can run the sander with the grain of the wood. I usually use the edge sander after each grit on the drum sander. THe last the I do is polish the floor with the orbital sander and finish were you cannot get with a ROS or hand help belt sander and scrapers. Some people will fill all of the voids with floor filler however it will depend on how you want it to look.

Hope that Helps.

Quinn

[Sam Shank]

Quinn said it pretty well. There are other gizmos out there that supposedly do the job - I've seen them for rent at HD and Lowes. I don't know if they work or not..

I will caution you about using a drum sander. It's simple to use, but difficult to master. Edgers (esp. rented ones) can be even harder to master.

If you decide to do it yourself and leave gouges that you decide you don't like, don't be surprised if the pro can't get them out.

You'd be surprised at what I've seen. I saw someone decide that the hallway to the around the island in a kitchen was just too narrow to use the drum sander and go with the boards. I would have made that same decision myself. But then he decided to go ahead and use the drum sande anyway, but just go against the grain.

Then he stained it...

I don't think I need to tell you how it looked.

Actually, if I were in your shoes - having no experience with a drum sander or edger, I would give those vibrating gizmos at home depot or lowes a shot. The worst that could happen with those is that you'd waste your time instead of ruining the floor.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Also, FWIW, it was a HUD rule until the 60s or 70s that any house built that was going to be purchased with HUD money (that reads almost all houses built) HAD to have hardwood floors. Carpeting back in the day was just too expensive, and when it wore out (fast), it was too much to buy new stuff. Hardwood lasted longer and was (and still is) cheaper in the end.

[Ed Falis]

Sam,

When you talk about the vibrating thingies at HD, do you mean the newer random orbital sanders for flooring? Been curious about them for a while, as we have a lot of oak and fir we uncovered from the 70's wall-to-wall that landed on the floors in our place.

- Ed

[John W. Willis]

I say pretty much what everybody else has said. I have refinished mine twice and used the drum sander which is all that was available back then, make sure when you start that you keep moving and lift before you stop. I have some "designer" dips in mine. I also stained mine the second time, applied sanding sealer, used floor machine with a rough pad to knock the grain down, then applied two coats of poly with light floor machining in between. They still look good to this day now going on 20 years. (no kids)

Just think of it as finishing a BIG table top!

PS that area will be pretty much unusable for a few days!

[Grant Lasson]

I did my oak floors last spring/summer. What a job! It's not as straightforward as it ought to be. First, I decided to stay away from drum sanders. Instead I tracked down a Varathane eZV sander. It has three 6" rotating sanding heads. (My floor is pretty cut up by islands, hallways, etc. so a drum sander wasn't really practical.) The eZV sander did a much better job than the original floor finishers did (surface is much flatter) and no gouges whatsoever anywhere. I used a Bosch ROS sander along the edges (as well as hand sanding-yuck!). The Bosch made the ultimate sacrifice to finish the floors... I filled the grain and then resanded. The floors were looking great.
At first I used a Minwax stain (oil-based) and then Varathane water-based polyurethane. Don't do this. The Varathane poly is an awful product and an expensive product. In addition, it had poor adhesion to the stain surface. It's only been a year and it already looks bad.
I ended up redoing much of the floor. Next time I used Zinsser SealCoat after the stain had dried. Then I applied a two-part catalyzed polyacrylic (DuraSeal XTerra). It's twice as expensive but it's a fabulous finish.
There's no hurrying on these jobs. The stain had to dry for days before I was able to use the SealCoat.
Good Luck.

[Al Willits]

If your new at refinishing floors I'd at all costs avoid the drum sander, or at least get lots of practice in before hitting your floor.
I've only done one house, and when and if I do it again, it'll be with something other than a drum sander.
Every time you pause, switch steps, sneeze, whatever, you'll leave a small depression, nothing worse than looking at your shinny new floor and seeing dips in it.
The people who have got these things down can do a pretty nice job, but I wouldn't practice on your floor, they can leave dips that are very hard to get out...imho

Al

[Dennis Perry]

I use a squarebuff (ros) works well, don't be affraid to use 36 grit then up to 100 grit. I'm looking to sell it but not yet, I have about another 800 square feet to refinish. I've done over 1,600 so far in my home. I've used a drum sander on other jobs works good requires more hand sanding next to walls and harder to control in small spaces. Much faster but be careful.

Good Luck
Dennis

[Jason Roehl]

We use an older version of this:

http://www.lagler.com.au/super_hummel.htm

Ours is a 7.5hp version, though. Even though the page talks about the sanding drum, it is a belt sander that is set up to feather to both sides. Much, much better than a drum sander.

[Chuck Reeves]

James, be aware that the dust generated by sanding will wind up everywhere like a dust bomb exploded in your house. Seal any rooms not being worked on by masking tape and plastic. I'm still finding dust from the finishing performed by the pros. Also consider blocking off HVAC grills and registers if so equipped. Good luck.

[Bob Aquino]

I put down 3 rooms worth of flooring about 7 years ago when we moved in. I rented one of the big vibrating sanders and it did just fine. No worry about gouging the floor with one of them, may take a bit more time, but nothing excessive. You start off with about 36 grade and work your way up. You can get very close to the edges with it too. If I had anything different to do, I might look at a different finish. I used a poly and it has held up ok, but has scratched in several spots. If I were to refinish now, I would pull out my hvlp rig and spray rather than use the lambwool applicator. On the one room I did end up spraying ( I put the flooring down in a herringbone pattern) the finish has held up remarkably well and it was the smoothest out of all the rooms.

[Sam Shank]

Ed, I think others have said it. I have no experience with those gizmos, just the big 8" drum sander.

As others can attest, you WILL leave gouges, dips, etc. The edger can leave gouges too, but it's more likely you'll leave edger marks - circular scrapes with the sandpaper. They can be hard to see if you don't know to look for them. That is until there's finish or stain on the floor.

I use an edger and then a belt sander or ROS to clean up the edger marks.

Like all other woodworking, if you want it done right, it's a slow process. And it will probably take you all weekend for 2 small to medium rooms.

[James Leonard]

James, be aware that the dust generated by sanding will wind up everywhere like a dust bomb exploded in your house. Seal any rooms not being worked on by masking tape and plastic. I'm still finding dust from the finishing performed by the pros. Also consider blocking off HVAC grills and registers if so equipped. Good luck.

Thanks to all the replies to this. I have had a remodeling strategy in mind for a while now. I had a room addition (master suite with kitchette) built over my workshop. there is an outside entrance on the new patio and an entrance through my workshop. All three of us can stay upstairs during any particularly nasty jobs like sanding and finishing.

-James Leonard

[Dave Anthony]

I too have an older home (1956) though I'm in northern CA. Floors are 5/16 " white oak nailed to a redwood subfloor. I've refinished the floors in 2 rooms and am working on the 3rd. Both times I rented a sander from Lowes w/3 oscillating heads - kinda like 3 random orbit sanders. It has a built in vacuum which helps control the dust (you will make a mess). I didn't have any problems w/gouging, & used a RO & finish sander for the edges & corners. It takes a long time for the stain/finish to dry. I used oil based varathane, but found it works better thinned. The lambs wool applicator put it on way too thick. I had better luck spreading it on with a paint roller & finishing with a brush. I made my own flooring by resawing 4/4 stock. The current project will have a 5 1/2" cherry border, then 1/2" of walnut surrounding the oak. This came about because:
a. The wood dealer didn't have the oak trim I wanted, but he did have some really stunning curly cherry crown.
b. I thought the transition from oak floor to cherry baseboards might look strange.