5k to spend

[Dan Lautner]

I have decided to spend up to 5k on a table saw. I work with mostly solid wood for furniture and cabinets. I have both festool saws and an bunch of rails for sheet stuff, angle cuts and straight line rips. I also have a j/p combo for stock prep. I will only buy a saw with a riving knife and dont want a saw with a large footprint (large slider). I am seriously looking at the new Felder 5 series slider. It has a riving knife, brake and X roll slider. Seems like a lot more bang for the buck than SS or laguna ts. Does anyone have any opinions on which way to go here? Thanks for any input.

Dan

[Andrew Williams]

I'm in the same boat. I am going with SS because I like to do intricate things like tenoning and making bevels, spline miters etc. I felt that a slider would just get in the way for that stuff. The brake thing was really the dealmaker though.

[Dan Lautner]

Andrew, I agree about the slider getting in the way and that is why I don't want a long slider. These compact euro sliders seem to give you the best of both worlds for ripping and crosscutting. The Felder and others have a brake so the blade stops after the cut. Here is a picture of the unit I'm looking at.

Dan62416

[Jim Becker]

That's a very nice machine, Dan. Felder's quality is top-notch...and I'd pick it over the Laguna any day, especially due to the slider design. If the short slider meets your needs, you'll still benefit from the extreme precision it lends.

On the blade brake...I have the same on my MM slider and it's amazing about how fast it spins down after you hit the off. So many accidents happen when someone reaches across a still-spinning blade in their impatience to retrieve the workpiece or off-cut and a blade brake helps reduce the "danger time". And with the slider, your hands are not near the blade during the cut, either.

[Andrew Williams]

Jim, how would you do a spline cut on a long-grain miter? Is there a way to do it on the slider without getting close to the blade?


I have never used a slider so I don't know

[Jim Becker]

Jim, how would you do a spline cut on a long-grain miter? Is there a way to do it on the slider without getting close to the blade?

If you want to do it with a slider, you'd just adapt your jig to be held by the slider...extend the bottom so you can fasten it to the tee-slot on the top of the wagon; most likely with a way to adjust it laterally so you could do multiple spline locations. As an alternative to the latter, the jig itself could be more sophisticated with an adjustable "stop" that allows you to move the workpiece laterally in the jig relative to the cut line without needing to futz with the connection to the slider wagon and induce the challenge of keeping things square to the cut line. This would actually be better than running along the fence as there would be no variability induced by your hands to the cut.

[Todd Solomon]

Hi Dan,

I'm on my second sliding table saw. It's a Felder K700S Plus. Absolute dream machine. My personal preference is for a long slider (8+' for sheet goods and straight-line ripping rough lumber), although if you're looking at a shorter stroker slider, the Felder 500 Series is one of the machines I would favor. I've been so pleased with the sliding table saw and the company, that I recently ordered a Felder jointer-planer.

In addition to the sliding table, they give you the riving knife, blade brake (stops within 10 seconds, not like the SawStop), and the best rip fence design I've seen (high/low fence; slides to act as a "shortie fence"; micro-adjustable).

A while back, I asked my Felder rep about the differences between the 500 and 700 series lines. The 500 series has the same X-roll sliding table as the 700 series, and same rip fence. I can't say enough about the Felder slider and fence system. Very refined, repeatable, extremely beefy. The crosscut fence is lighter on the 500 series than the 700 series.

Mark Duginske wrote an article on sliding table saws that very eloquently describes their advantages. If you join the Felder Owner's Group, look in the Files section for "Duginske on Sliding Table Saws.pdf."

As far as some of the options that I would recommend, if you spring for a Felder, here they are:

Scoring blade: Allows you to make tearout free on both sides. Especially advantageous for veneer plywood.
Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence
49" rip capacity- You'll probably need this, especially if you don't go with the long slider
Small miter fence (Allows you to make straight and miter cuts at any angle, without the slider's outrigger).Let me know if you have any specific questions.


Todd

[Steve Rowe]

Dan - I have a Felder CF741 with the brake, riving knife and X-roll. I am extremely pleased with the quality of the machine. Accessories for the Felder can be pricey but, at least they are available which is not necessarily the case for the competition. The brake stops the blade within 2 seconds of hitting the stop button. For the price, I don't think you can beat the X-rollslider - it is absolutely superb. Once you experience a slider, there is no going back.

You should be aware that the Felder uses a blade that has a 30mm bore with two drive pins. I had some of my blades rebored by Forrest for about $22 each. Also, if you intend to use a dado blade, you will need to get the removable flange (for some configurations this is standard but I don't know about the 5 series).
Steve

[Todd Solomon]

Andrew, I agree about the slider getting in the way and that is why I don't want a long slider. These compact euro sliders seem to give you the best of both worlds for ripping and crosscutting. The Felder and others have a brake so the blade stops after the cut. Here is a picture of the unit I'm looking at.

Dan62416

Hi Dan,

I thought I should add that the outrigger is easily removable, and the outrigger arm folds against the frame. So, even if you have a long slider with an outrigger, it doesn't get in the way (aside from walking around the end of it, when adjusting the rip fence or blade angle). You should stand to the left of the blade, rather than behind it, whether it's a slider or a traditional cabinet saw. So, the length of the slider doesn't impact the ability to do precision joinery or small work on the saw.

Todd

[Dan Lautner]

Thanks for all the replies. Todd,on the machine in the photo with the longer slider it seems that it sticks way out. would it be harder to stay to the side of the blade while ripping small pieces with a push stick? I have seen these sliders at the shows but so far have only used an after market slider on a cabinet saw.

Thanks Dan

[Todd Solomon]

Thanks for all the replies. Todd,on the machine in the photo with the longer slider it seems that it sticks way out. would it be harder to stay to the side of the blade while ripping small pieces with a push stick? I have seen these sliders at the shows but so far have only used an after market slider on a cabinet saw.

Thanks Dan

Ripping small pieces really doesn't bother me in the slightest. The width of the machine to the left of the slider is the same on all Felder sliders, so I don't think it'll matter which model you select.

The Felder's high-low fence actually makes it easier to rip narrow pieces, than with a typical Beisemeyer-style fence. When using the low-side of the fence for narrow rips, you have more room for your push stick, and the fence doesn't tend to push the stick into the blade. You can also slide the fence fore or aft. For example, you can have the fence end, just as the blade starts, to prevent pinching and potential for kick-back. The riving knife prevents most-all kick-back, any way. I hope that all makes sense. It's something that is easy to see in person, but kind of hard to describe.

Todd

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have decided to spend up to 5k on a table saw.

You'll end up spending more in a Felder. They are Absolutely the Shizz - I mean absolutely - and there is a single phase option. But they are more pricier-er than that. Have a look at the Hammer.

I have the Hammer 8' slider and I like it rather a lot. It's got a beast of a motor and will take a dado. The table is deadly precise. The adjustable extension table is an absolute necessity and it's got a fabulous fence on it.


SS & laguna are not even in the same class as a true slider. Saw Stop is a fine traditional cabinet saw with the bennie of that electrical gizmo. But it'll never be a slider. Laguna's slider is too wimpy and small and I don't like that misleading crapola about slicing credit cards in half. And the Laguna TSS is a Check made tool. The Laguna sales idiots haven't even got technical manuals to refer to if you ask 'em a question.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I'm in the same boat. I am going with SS because I like to do intricate things like tenoning and making bevels, spline miters etc. I felt that a slider would just get in the way for that stuff. The brake thing was really the dealmaker though.

I do very intricate work on my slider. Any one who tells you they are just for sheet stock is seriously misinformed.

The only sliders that are truly for sheet stock are those old Olivers with a cast iron slider on steel rails.

The modern Austrian Sliders make all that intricate work way far easier. I was somewhat concerned about exactly that when I bought mine.

Now I would never go back. I don't know how I got along before I got my slider. It takes jigs and fixtures like there's no tomorrow. I can mount things on it I would have never got on my old conventional TS. I can set it up like I would a milling machine with clamps, hold downs, fixed stops, rests, taper jigs, tenoning jigs, you name it. And it's deadly precise and repeats perfectly.

I have a post on my Rock Box Here:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=55076
Every single cut was done on my slider.

[Jim Becker]

...on the machine in the photo with the longer slider it seems that it sticks way out. would it be harder to stay to the side of the blade while ripping small pieces with a push stick? .

My experience echo's Todd's...you stand in a slightly different position, but it's actually a good position...away from the cut line. I've had no issues with my slider in this respect. And with the outrigger off the machine (as it is most of the time in my shop) my 8.5' slider doesn't really take up any more room than my previous cabinet saw/outfeed solution did outside of a slightly longer length at the front of the saw. I just store the big outrigger away as I only need it for processing sheet goods. The smaller miter fence goes on and off as needed, too. These machines are designed to be quickly reconfigurable.

BTW, Todd's point about the fence is also valid. Like the Delta UniFence, the fences on many Euro machines are two-position with a "high" and "low" capacity. The fence also slides back and forth so you can position it as a stop or to put the end of the fence near the back of the blade if you're ripping material that is moving a lot after the cut. I love this style of fence and am glad to have it back in my shop.