Benchtop Mortiser

[SCOTT ANDREWS]

I'm Getting Ready To Purchase A Benchtop Mortise Machine And Would Like Some Input From The Members Here On Which Brand Seems To Be The Most Reliable,accurate,and Well Built.cost Is Not A Factor In My Decision,just Your Opinions On Quality And Performance.thank You All In Advance.
Scott

[Gary Keedwell]

Hi,
I would search for one that had a good sized table and some kind of mechanisim to push the stock up against the fence. ( cams look promising). Also, be aware that some machines do not come with chisels and bits. (sounds like dog food) LOL
Remember, your machine is only as good as the chisels, so invest wisely.:o
Gary K.;)

[Nancy Laird]

Steel City makes a very nice benchtop mortiser, with outriggers to provide up to 35" of work support. It's a 1/2hp and has a 5" stroke. There is a 2-1/4" riser block available for extra height, includes four chisel-and-bit sets, rack-and-pinion head travel on dovetail ways and rack-and-pinion fence adjustment (the fence is 3" x 14-1/2").

Available at Woodworker's Supply for $269.99, riser block is $21.99.

Nancy

(As an aside, we have a WoodTek mortiser that we don't use any more since we purchased a MatchMaker that does perfect mortises and tenons with a router. LOML might be willing to part with ours--I'll have to ask him.)

[pat warner]

This one (http://patwarner.com/mortiser.html) has a lot of application, requires your router to work.

[Darl Bundren]

I own and like the Steel City mortiser, too. Nice features at a fair price.

[mike bailey]

I have the general it works great.

[Brian Penning]

FWW did a review and found the General to be the best overall.
I have the non-tilting model and am very satisfied.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=25458

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I say don't buy one. First make one of those jigs that let you do mortises with a router. I have one and haven't used my mortising machine since. I use loose tenons with it and the fit is always perfect, as loose or as tight as you want. Mortising with a router and jig leaves very smooth walls compared to a mortise machine.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

WOOD magazine did a review some time back (June/July 2004 issue) and rated the General International as best.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

General is putting PM to shame on the Benchtop.

If $$ isn't an issue why note get a floor model ??

Or a slot mortiser. I have a slot mortiser and I really like it.

[Doug Shepard]

I'm going to vote with Pat and Alan. Go with a router. After 6-7 years I finally sold my Delta mortiser a few months ago. It just wasn't getting used much if at all. The router takes a tiny bit longer but IMHO the results are a lot better. Plus it will do a whole bunch of other stuff too, which the mortiser wont.

[Paul Simmel]

I'm going to vote for the OP.


The OP asked which machine, not what other mortising alternatives there are for goodness sake!

I just ordered a Shop Fox MM. Why? Because it is highly acclaimed and it is said better than a Delta (believable).

Most of my mortises are done on a router table, with an upcut carbide spiral bit exposed. Against a fence, I drop my piece down on the bit to full depth, push to a stop, raise the piece… mortise done. Period. Very simple very effective. Extremely effective and IMO better than any fancy router jig.

Why a mortising machine in my shop then? That’s for me to know, and for you not to speculate on. Non of your business.

[Ken Milhinch]

I say don't buy one. First make one of those jigs that let you do mortises with a router. I have one and haven't used my mortising machine since. I use loose tenons with it and the fit is always perfect, as loose or as tight as you want. Mortising with a router and jig leaves very smooth walls compared to a mortise machine.

And those very smooth walls can be a source of gluing failure.
I use a Delta with a riser, and it does all I want. I don't have to manufacture loose tenons either :rolleyes: .
The OP asked what brand was recommended, and my vote goes to Delta, though I am sure others are just as good.

[Ted Owen]

As another alternative, you might look at the new Festool Domino.

Best, Ted

[Brian Penning]

And those very smooth walls can be a source of gluing failure.


I'd be interested in any evidence that this is true.

[Ken Milhinch]

I'd be interested in any evidence that this is true.
Don't know that you will accept this as "evidence", but the fast spinning router bit, after it can no longer cut the fibres, has a tendency to lay the ends over and almost polish the wood surface. The glue depends on minute little depressions that occur naturally in wood to give it good adhesion, and this polishing effect can diminish that. The following search on Google will better explain how a glue actually works. "Glue Joint Failure". The first hit is a good one to read.

[Andrew Williams]

I can see some advantages to both. A mortising machine will make it much easier to to Arts and Crafts style with the slats. You can also do chair joinery more easily, since the angles offset eachother in a pair of legs.

[Don Bullock]

I can see some advantages to both. A mortising machine will make it much easier to to Arts and Crafts style with the slats.

That's exaxctly what I thought so I bought a Steel City mortiser. I haven't had a chance to use it yet.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=55997

[Jack Young]

I studied it all out, as best one can, and concluded that the Woodhaven horizontal mortising rig, which uses a router, is benchtop size and works like the large metal rigs on the european combination machines, was my best choice. It's nearly all phenolic resin, fits together beautifully, and works smoothly, mine with a PC 690 series motor. You might look at that one on the Woodhaven website. The Festool Domino is also very appealing, but I suspect can't do mortises larger than 10 millimeters, or so. Depends, as always, on what work one intends to do.

Jack

[Alan Tolchinsky]

And those very smooth walls can be a source of gluing failure.
I use a Delta with a riser, and it does all I want. I don't have to manufacture loose tenons either :rolleyes: .
The OP asked what brand was recommended, and my vote goes to Delta, though I am sure others are just as good.


All I can say is making loose tenons is easy and I don't have to worry about making integral tenons. I put the tenon stock through my planer and get the exact thickness I want. I've done many M/T with integral tenons and find this much easier and the joints look better. If David Marks uses it , it's good enough for me.

As far as the "smooth wall" objection: I've tried to break practice examples and they just do not break at the glue line. There's always wood stuck to the loose tenon that's if I can get it to break at all.

BUT I THINK THE MAIN THING I LIKE ABOUT LOOSE TENONS IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAINSTAKINGLY ADJUST THE TENON TO FIT THE MORTISE. AND THE SHOULDERS ARE ALWAYS PERFECT.

This shows there's always more than one way to do something and if you like your way then do it.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Don't know that you will accept this as "evidence", but the fast spinning router bit, after it can no longer cut the fibres, has a tendency to lay the ends over and almost polish the wood surface. The glue depends on minute little depressions that occur naturally in wood to give it good adhesion, and this polishing effect can diminish that. The following search on Google will better explain how a glue actually works. "Glue Joint Failure". The first hit is a good one to read.

Wouldn't a quick 5 sec. sanding take care of this if you wanted to? You couldn just put a rolled up piece of sand paper in the mortise and that'd be it.

Question: How come there aren't more glue joint failures when boards are jointed and then glued up for a panel? When you joint an edge it comes out pretty smooth doesn't it?

[Ken Milhinch]

Alan,

I didn't say every mortise created by a router would end in joint failure. I didn't even say that most of them would. I merely noted that one proponent of router M&T joints pointed to how smooth the walls of their mortises were, and I cautioned that this can result in joint failure. Perhaps I should have said "can contribute to joint failure". I suggest you read the information that I referred to on the Google search, as that clearly explains how glue and wood interact, and it then starts to make some sense. To your other point, sanded boards are never going to be as smooth as a mortise wall "polished" by a router bit after it stops cutting.

[David Dundas]

If cost is no problem, then the Festool Domino is a very strong contender; it is much more convenient to use and much more versatile than a bench mortiser. It has the big advantage that you are taking the tool to the work rather than vice versa; and it is essentially maintenance-free. Although of course you can buy Domino tenons ready-made, it is easy to make your own tenon stock in larger dimensions. You are not limited to the Domino's largest cutter size of 10 mm; you can easily adjust the fence height and make two passes. The only real limitations with the Domino are the maximum milling depth of 28 mm and the maximum fence height of 30 mm (meaning that you cannot mill a centered mortise in stock more than 60 mm thick).

David

[Steve Rowe]

Scott,
I sold my Delta benchtop several years ago when I upgraded to a slot mortiser. It was OK and for $249 with chisels, just OK is what I expected. I never had any problems with it and wouldn't hesitate recommending it if that was the budget. If cost is not an issue, I would recommend looking for a HCM with a screw or eccentric clamp and an X-Y table. These features will make your use of the machine much more enjoyable. If I were to be in the market today, the General would probably be at the top of my list.
Steve

[Gary Keedwell]

If cost is no problem, then the Festool Domino is a very strong contender; it is much more convenient to use and much more versatile than a bench mortiser. It has the big advantage that you are taking the tool to the work rather than vice versa; and it is essentially maintenance-free. Although of course you can buy Domino tenons ready-made, it is easy to make your own tenon stock in larger dimensions. You are not limited to the Domino's largest cutter size of 10 mm; you can easily adjust the fence height and make two passes. The only real limitations with the Domino are the maximum milling depth of 28 mm and the maximum fence height of 30 mm (meaning that you cannot mill a centered mortise in stock more than 60 mm thick).

David
:rolleyes: Gee..I thought the original poster was asking for advice on a benchtop mortiser. Seems the infomercials never cease?:confused: :(
Gary K.

[Tim Malyszko]

Yesterday, I used my Delta 14-651 to cut 8 - 3/8" by 1.5" deep mortises in some poplar. Once again, I was satisfied with the end results, but wished it had a bigger motor. If I did it over, I would have purchased one with a min 3/4 HP motor. Even after honing the stock 3/8" chisel, the mortiser still occassionally bound up.

Despite the Delta being a little fussy, I still get good end results with it; however, if you can afford on with a bigger motor, I would go that direction.

Good luck in your search.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I have owned the General International mortiser for about 6 years now. Most of my work is Arts and Crafts in QSWO, and the mortiser works great. I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend it.

Regards, Rod.

[David Dundas]

:rolleyes: Gee..I thought the original poster was asking for advice on a benchtop mortiser. Seems the infomercials never cease?:confused: :(
Gary K.

Gary,

Although the original poster was asking for advice on a benchtop mortiser, several other posters (Alan, Pat, and Cliff) have suggested alternative suggestions to solve his problem - the best way to mill mortices, such as routing them with a jig, or using a slot mortiser. I merely proposed a third solution, the Domino.

I believe that you alleged previously that I was posting informercials and I assured you that I am a hobbyist with no commercial connections with Festool. I could easily call on other respected members of this Forum, such as Derek Cohen, to attest to this. So I request that you cease to suggest that I am posting infomercials when I am merely trying to provide helpful information on the basis of my personal experience as a Domino owner.

David Dundas

[Ken Milhinch]

:rolleyes: Gee..I thought the original poster was asking for advice on a benchtop mortiser. Seems the infomercials never cease?:confused: :(
Gary K.
Gary,
I'm surprised it took this long for the 'D' word to make an appearance. :D

[Gary Keedwell]

David,

I call them as I see them......I'm sure I'm not the only one that "sees" them like that. I don't mean any anomoisity, everybody knows your enthusiasm for the domino.:o Even as a hobbyist, they still look like what I suggested.
:) Sorry
Gary K

[Greg Funk]

David,

I call them as I see them......I'm sure I'm not the only one that "sees" them like that. I don't mean any anomoisity, everybody knows your enthusiasm for the domino.:o Even as a hobbyist, they still look like what I suggested.
:) Sorry
Gary K
It's a fine line between calling someone a liar and saying he appears to be a liar...

[Gary Keedwell]

It's a fine line between calling someone a liar and saying he appears to be a liar...
Better read my post again Greg, I just said what it looked like. No accusations written. Also, since you brought it up, what is your definition of a hobbyist?
My definition of a hobbyist is someone who goes to his garage or basement, wherever it may be, and pursues an activity or interest at one's leisure for enjoyment. Right?
I wasn't going to bring this up, but since you are talking about "fine lines", the person above who we are writing about , David, has written at least one article in a magazine that is for sale right now.
Now, if a person writes an article for magazines, is he now still a "hobbyist?"
Respectfully,
Gary K.

[Greg Funk]

Better read my post again Greg, I just said what it looked like. No accusations written. Also, since you brought it up, what is your definition of a hobbyist?
My definition of a hobbyist is someone who goes to his garage or basement, wherever it may be, and pursues an activity or interest at one's leisure for enjoyment. Right?
I wasn't going to bring this up, but since you are talking about "fine lines", the person above who we are writing about , David, has written at least one article in a magazine that is for sale right now.
Now, if a person writes an article for magazines, is he now still a "hobbyist?"
Respectfully,
Gary K.
If you're going to call people liars you need a thicker skin Gary.

David said he's a hobbyist with no commercial interest and I believe him.

It strains credulity to imagine that Festool USA is paying some bloke from down under to stimulate interest for a tool that appears to be selling pretty well on its own.

Greg

[Gary Keedwell]

If you're going to call people liars you need a thicker skin Gary.

David said he's a hobbyist with no commercial interest and I believe him.

It strains credulity to imagine that Festool USA is paying some bloke from down under to stimulate interest for a tool that appears to be selling pretty well on its own.

Greg
Let's be mature about this, Greg. "Liar" is a very loud and incriminating word. Let us not be naive. The subject of "commercial interest" comes up here very frequently.
I'm a very strong proponent of capitalism, and capitalism motivates everybody, consciously or unconsciously every day of one's life. When I visit this forum, I'm aware of posts that are borderline when it comes to motivation.
There are people who post here at SMC who write manuals, write magazine reviews etc. and I don't think it is wrong as long as they participate in the spirit of the thread they are posting in.
By the way, pick up the latest issue of "Woodcrafting Magazine" and you might see some names that look familiar to you.
Gary k.

[Michael McCoy]

So Scott - to get back to your original post - which way are you leaning so far?

[Greg Funk]

Let's be mature about this, Greg. "Liar" is a very loud and incriminating word. Gary k.
I call them as I see them......

[Gary Keedwell]

I call them as I see them......
:rolleyes: What? Is there an echo here?:o
Gary K.

[Ron Wessels]

So Scott - to get back to your original post - which way are you leaning so far?

[Michael McCoy]

So Scott - to get back to your original post - which way are you leaning so far?

Thank you sir.

[SCOTT ANDREWS]

Thanks For Everyone's Comments And Advice.more Than Likely I'll End Up Going With The General.thanks For The Pm Ken.didn't Mean To Stur Up Any Router Vs. Machine Issue.thanks Again To Everyone.
Scott

[Gary Keedwell]

Good choice Scott...I like the front vice and long handle and another good feature is that the fence stays square with the chisel when you move it.;)
Gary K.

[Terry Fogarty]

:rolleyes: Gee..I thought the original poster was asking for advice on a benchtop mortiser. Seems the infomercials never cease?:confused: :(
Gary K.



Gary,

I could easily call on other respected members of this Forum, such as Derek Cohen, to attest to this. So I request that you cease to suggest that I am posting infomercials when I am merely trying to provide helpful information on the basis of my personal experience as a Domino owner.

David Dundas


Gary in the past you have accused me of exactly the same thing and its one of the reasons im not posting to much about my passion and love of the Domino on this forum.

But i do know for a fact David is a very keen (and well repected) hobbiest who has no connection with Festool. I dont have a connection either, but just like David i just love the Domino.

So is it so bad we love a tool so much we want to share our experiences. As far as i see it David was just offering Scott another point of view.:)

[Ken Milhinch]

Terry,
Perhaps if you & David were to confine your happy stories about the Domino to threads which were actually about the Domino ? The OP was asking for recommendations on a benchtop mortiser, not alternatives to buying one. I am a fan of Festool myself, and own quite a few (though not the Domino), but I really get sick of the Domino being thrust in front of anyone who asks a question about jointing timber.


PS I do think Gary was off base when he suggested David's interest was "commercial", however.

[Gary Keedwell]

Terry,
Perhaps if you & David were to confine your happy stories about the Domino to threads which were actually about the Domino ? The OP was asking for recommendations on a benchtop mortiser, not alternatives to buying one. I am a fan of Festool myself, and own quite a few (though not the Domino), but I really get sick of the Domino being thrust in front of anyone who asks a question about jointing timber.


PS I do think Gary was off base when he suggested David's interest was "commercial", however.
:o Thank-you for saying it alot better than I could;)
Gary K.

[Fred Voorhees]

...............but I really get sick of the Domino being thrust in front of anyone who asks a question about jointing timber.


To be quite honest, I was ready for one of the enthusiasts to tell us next that it scrambles our morning eggs.:rolleyes:

[Gary Keedwell]

To be quite honest, I was ready for one of the enthusiasts to tell us next that it scrambles our morning eggs.:rolleyes:
If it does, don't forget to order your eggshell extractor.:confused:
Gary K.

[David Dundas]

Ken,

It is a matter of opinion whether it is legitimate to suggest an alternative method of achieving an objective - in this case milling a mortise. If someone asked what brand of old-woman's-tooth router-plane he should buy to cut dadoes, would it be wrong to suggest that it might be more efficient to use an electric router or a dado set? In my view, bench-top mortisers are an inferior way of milling mortices compared to routing them, or using a slot-mortiser or Domino. I may be incorrect in my view, but I do not see why I should be inhibited from expressing it, because some people who don't own a Domino and who have decided not to buy one may be sick of hearing about it. There are plenty of other people who are actively comtemplating buying one, and who are keen to have information from people who have used one. If you don't want to read a post about something, you can easily skip over it and ignore it.

I don't usually look to Chairman Mao for pearls of wisdom, but I think he was right when he said "Let a hundred flowers bloom".

David

[Gary Keedwell]

Terry,
Perhaps if you & David were to confine your happy stories about the Domino to threads which were actually about the Domino ? The OP was asking for recommendations on a benchtop mortiser, not alternatives to buying one. I am a fan of Festool myself, and own quite a few (though not the Domino), but I really get sick of the Domino being thrust in front of anyone who asks a question about jointing timber.


PS I do think Gary was off base when he suggested David's interest was "commercial", however.
David,
I also own a few Festool products, just like Ken. And I agree with Ken that it gets rather tiresome to have the domino thrust in front of us every time we talk of joinery. The original poster did not ask for opinions on the best way to join wood....he asked a particular question regarding the benchtop mortiser. Everybody was focused on the question and giving answers to his question.
If someone starts a post and asks about different ways of joinery, then I can expect the domino to be included, and if I didn't want to read it I could skip over it.
I have absolutey nothing against the domino. I think it is an innovative tool. I have done alot of reading about it including part of your article in Woodcraft magazine. By the way... nice chair.;)
Gary K.