Which CNC Router???

[Josh Bendel]

I'm looking for some input on likes and dislikes from anyone that has either run/programmed or owned a CNC router. I'm looking at one for my business, to reduce my manual labor. I've basically just started looking so I’m pretty green.
My main concerns are upkeep, ease of programming/setup, and dust collection. I'll mainly be running pine, oak, cherry and plywood. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Josh

[Wil Lambert]

I personally own a Techno LC and will not recommend the company. Tech support has been horrible. Machine has been good but with not support it doesn't matter. I have never read anything bad about Shopbot. Check them out.

Wil

[Aaron Koehl]

I absolutely love the ShopBot. Very few problems specific to ShopBot (as opposed to CNC Routing in general); and the initial capital is very reasonable for an initial purchase.

[Larry Bratton]

Josh:
That depends on what your planning to do with it. I have a Glentek Warthog, which is now LA Enterprise. Mine is a 50x100 table with a 5hp Columbo spindle with 10hp vacuum pump and a 5hp dust collection system outside my building. I run Enroute 3plus software. I make signs and cut parts with it for various projects. Investment $25k at the time. It was a demo machine and had been used a limited amount. The controller is WinCNC and it works good. http://www.laenterpriseinc.com/index.html

If I had to buy another machine, I would spec out an automatic tool changer. I think I would consider a larger vacuum pump for hold down. The Enroute software is an absolute dream to use, very user friendly. I had never run a CNC router until I purchased this one and I literally was making toolpaths and parts within 24 hrs of installing it. I have a pretty good graphics and software background, so the Enroute was really easy.

As far as the brand goes, be sure and get a good solid rigid table regardless of what company it is. Several good manufacturers out there, but for me to recommend a brand, I'm not qualified. My brother-in-law just bought a mid size Multicam with Enroute 3plus, auto tool changer, 60x144 table, 12hp spindle, 30hp VP. That machine is $75k. Rep was close by and I think that was the deciding factor.Depending on your needs, the Shopbot may be just the thing for you, but look around and do your homework before investing the $.

I just put in a larger dust collector. I cut and process a lot of MDF. The one I got, I bought from LeNeave Supply Co. in Charlotte, NC. We had been using just the 2hp stand alone collectors and they just weren't cutting it. The new is a 5hp machine installed outside in an enclosure with the switch on the inside 220v single phase. We will run additional pipe to add other machines soon. Cost me about $2000 including the outside enclosure.

When I bought this machine, the company I got it from was the pits from a response standpoint. They were in Georgia, I am in SC. and I was looking for a relatively local company. However, having gone to place where they were made,and dealt with the owner of the place, I got pretty good service from them. The company has since sold and has a new owner, and they are seemingly good people. They have sent me some bearings I needed and said they were there if I needed them. So, service is very important with one of these things. I like to deal with companies that are fairly close by to me geographically, so that their local outside service people can help me if needed. As it turned out, after this company was purchased, their rep lives about 40 miles from me.

I hope this post isn't too long and this information is helpful. Good luck with your purchase.

[Josh Bendel]

Larry is your machine used in a production environment or used for different taks each time.


Josh:
That depends on what your planning to do with it. I have a Glentek Warthog, which is now LA Enterprise. Mine is a 50x100 table with a 5hp Columbo spindle with 10hp vacuum pump and a 5hp dust collection system outside my building. I run Enroute 3plus software. I make signs and cut parts with it for various projects. Investment $25k at the time. It was a demo machine and had been used a limited amount. The controller is WinCNC and it works good. http://www.laenterpriseinc.com/index.html

If I had to buy another machine, I would spec out an automatic tool changer. I think I would consider a larger vacuum pump for hold down. The Enroute software is an absolute dream to use, very user friendly. I had never run a CNC router until I purchased this one and I literally was making toolpaths and parts within 24 hrs of installing it. I have a pretty good graphics and software background, so the Enroute was really easy.

As far as the brand goes, be sure and get a good solid rigid table regardless of what company it is. Several good manufacturers out there, but for me to recommend a brand, I'm not qualified. My brother-in-law just bought a mid size Multicam with Enroute 3plus, auto tool changer, 60x144 table, 12hp spindle, 30hp VP. That machine is $75k. Rep was close by and I think that was the deciding factor.Depending on your needs, the Shopbot may be just the thing for you, but look around and do your homework before investing the $.

I just put in a larger dust collector. I cut and process a lot of MDF. The one I got, I bought from LeNeave Supply Co. in Charlotte, NC. We had been using just the 2hp stand alone collectors and they just weren't cutting it. The new is a 5hp machine installed outside in an enclosure with the switch on the inside 220v single phase. We will run additional pipe to add other machines soon. Cost me about $2000 including the outside enclosure.

When I bought this machine, the company I got it from was the pits from a response standpoint. They were in Georgia, I am in SC. and I was looking for a relatively local company. However, having gone to place where they were made,and dealt with the owner of the place, I got pretty good service from them. The company has since sold and has a new owner, and they are seemingly good people. They have sent me some bearings I needed and said they were there if I needed them. So, service is very important with one of these things. I like to deal with companies that are fairly close by to me geographically, so that their local outside service people can help me if needed. As it turned out, after this company was purchased, their rep lives about 40 miles from me.

I hope this post isn't too long and this information is helpful. Good luck with your purchase.

[Ed Lang]

I have a prtAlpha96 Shopbot, two Feins for vacuum hold down and a 4HP HSD spindle. I am very happy with my machine. I cut quite a number of different shapes and things so I am not just a sheet goods shop. ShopBot support is fantastic and a great support group willing to help and share ideas thoughts and assistance.

I have been to Durhan, NC a couple of times and everyone there is very friendly and professional. The owner is an available to me as the person who sits next to the door.

ed

[Brian Robison]

Anyone check these out? A friend of mine sells them.
http://www.axyz.com/

["Al Dixon"]

Josh,
I bought a Precix last year. I looked at Shopbot, warthog, Techno, and about a dozen others over the last four years. Precix is made in Vancover (Canadian dollars) but I have had great phone support and very little trouble.

The deciding factors for my purchase were:
it came with a tee slot/vacuum table combination ( segregated into 4 zones) so I didn't have to make my own table,
it came in a crate ready to hook up to electric and air,
it uses a subset of standard g-code (if you have no cnc experience this will mean little to you now but could later),
several spindle choices for you based on the work,
1 year "bumper to bumper" warranty,
super strong table structure,

the control is smart enough to accelerate and decellerate for direction changes and this is important for accurate 3-d work, plus it keeps the machine from shaking itself to death. I cut a sample part on a Techno machine and it shook so much that the gantry and the table actually ocillated out of phase from each other, The result was a very poor surface finish.

same program on the Precix did not have this problem.

The price was more than shopbot less that axsys and I didn't have to build a table before I could use it. The difference in the Canadian dollar vs US dollars at the time helped offset the shipping.

I use ArtCam to drive it, both for design and programming the toolpaths.

-Al

[Steve knight]

so far shopbot support has been good. but I have not got power to my machine yet so I have a ltitle bit to learn (G)

[Keith Outten]

Its no secret that I am a ShopBot fan. ShopBot has an excellent support system, continues to improve their machines and they are affordable.

The task of assembling a ShopBot is not an easy one and should not be taken lightly. Its not just a bolt it together job if it is done properly and you expect to be able to maintain any precision. If you take your time and have patience assembly can be an enjoyable task. ShopBot's table is tough and sturdy, I have never seen it shake or witnessed any vibration problems.

I like the fact that ShopBot offers each customer a range of options. Those who don't need a vacuum hold down system can order a ShopBot without them and you have the ability to build your own to suit the kind of work you do. Customers also have plenty of options when selecting their spindles or the ability to use a standard router motor. There are plenty of software choices for the ShopBots as well, just about any design and toolpathing program will work and the ShopBot control software is free and constantly being updated.

There are lots of really good CNC machines available today. When I bought mine price was my main concern since I run a one man shop and had to be able to pay for my router without having to run it every day. My expectations were minimal but after two years I feel that I got more than my money's worth. The learning curve is steep for a first time user but with patience it is a reasonable mountain to climb. It is unlikely that I will ever be able to use the total capability of my ShopBot so I may never get the chance to purchase another CNC router.

.

[Jim Good]

Keith,

If I remember right, your first job paid for your Shopbot! Is this correct?

Jim

[Aaron Koehl]

Keith,

If I remember right, your first job paid for your Shopbot! Is this correct?

Jim
Jim,

That is correct, and it was a job which used only the most basic capability of the machine. :D

[Larry Bratton]

Joe, it could be if it had AUTO TOOL CHANGER. I emphasize that. If your planning on using it for complex parts that will require different bits and in a production mode, that would be a must. We run things now, that take 2 or 3 tool changes and you have to stop running to change the tool. Our's is kind of a "Mickey Mouse" machine but it does what we need to do at the moment. Like I said, I have access to a high production machine if I need it. You may have to bite the bullet a bit financially, but if you can afford the tool changer, you probably would be glad you did it in the long run.

[Keith Outten]

Keith,

If I remember right, your first job paid for your Shopbot! Is this correct?

Jim

Jim,

I had a fairly large sign job going and was using my band saw to cut Corian sign blanks then I had to sand the edges on my spindle sander before laser engraving . It took me about an hour to make each sign blank (Lots of Detail). With so many sign blanks to make I made a trip to the ShopBot office in Durham NC, they did a little demo for me and I ordered a PRTAlpha96 on the spot. When my ShopBot arrived and I got it running I was producing the same sign blanks in 90 seconds each. The time saved on the first week paid for the ShopBot and I was early finishing the job which my customer appreciated..and I got more work as a result. I went to Walmart and bought a $50.00 camera that I installed in my shop so I could watch my ShopBot from my upstairs office on the TV. It makes the 90 minute routing jobs so much easier :)

As Aaron said you can make money doing simple jobs like cutting out sign blanks, cutting boards, etc. The fancy stuff is really cool but you don't have to worry about the time it takes to learn to run a ShopBot and start making money. Very simple machining like oval mirrors, bathroom fixtures, light switches, and simple engraving will get you in the black real quick :) A lot of people are so focused on 3D machining and how hard it is to learn that they totally miss the fact that the easy stuff can sometimes be more profitable.

Oh, I should also admit that CNC machines are a lot of fun. There is no end to the creative stuff you can dream up and produce.

Larry, I think I saw a price for the ShopBot tool changer on their web site...it was about $17,000.00 which is a whole lot more than I paid for my machine. I don't sweat the time it takes to change bits but I can see where it would be important to some people.

Get a ShopBot
Buy Vector Art CD#1
Buy Vcarve Pro
Pay off your mortgage
.

[Dave Hines]

Josh, I've got a Shopbot and its great. I really started cooking when I bought V-carve Pro. (http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/vcp/vcp_index.htm) Ease of use comes down to the type of software you are using. For the price you can't beat Vectrics products. Support of the shopbot is great too. They even have regional camps each year where you can get together with other botters and trade tips and tricks.

[Rodne Gold]

Here's quite a nice document , albeit its biased toward a manufacturer it gives a lot of info re CnC routers and what to look for.
http://www.techno-isel.com/H840/PDF/004.pdf

[Josh Bendel]

Thanks for everybodies input, I'm hopfully going to the AWFS show in Vegas, so I can see some of the machines in action. Should be a great time. I'll keep everbody updated on the search.

[Bob Thornborough]

Josh,
I had one of the original ShopBots and was very happy with it. When I moved however, I wanted a smaller machine than the 5 x 10 foot table I had on my ShopBot and looked around for something in the same price range as the ShopBot. I settled on ShopSabre. I think it is a more solid build than the ShopBot, is slightly more expensive initially but it comes with RAMS software as well as WinCNC. Support has always been there when required but have not used them much since the initial setup.