Scrub planes

[Bill Turas]

Hey all...

My first post. I've been using a scrub plane a good bit in the last few months and have found it to be perfect for my needs. I'm looking for a good way to sharpen the blade, as I use it a couple of hours each week.

I sharpen by hand, using the Veritas jig and the ScarpSharp method for normal blades, and am wondering if anyone has come up with a method or better yet, a jig that will work with a Scrub plane blade.

So far I've been winging it by hand with these blades and it's a bit of a PITA. Especially when I need to do a major resharpening. I'm also finding that over the course of many sharpenings, the curve of the blade is becoming shallower, or a larger diameter. Is this a problem?

Thanks in advance...

BIll

[Grant Lasson]

Bill,

I just got a scrub plane a few weeks ago. I'm having a lot of fun. Can't imagine what I was trying to do without one. Anyway, I've read a Chris Schwarz article on how to sharpen the scrub. He says take a piece of softwood and plane a groove in it using the scrub. Ensure that you can run it consistently in the same track. Then get some self-adhesive sandpaper (he recommends Lee Valley) (two grits) and then adhere it to the groove. Sharpen by running the scrub over it. Seems fairly simple but I have not had cause to try it yet.

[Mike Henderson]

Bill,

I just got a scrub plane a few weeks ago. I'm having a lot of fun. Can't imagine what I was trying to do without one. Anyway, I've read a Chris Schwarz article on how to sharpen the scrub. He says take a piece of softwood and plane a groove in it using the scrub. Ensure that you can run it consistently in the same track. Then get some self-adhesive sandpaper (he recommends Lee Valley) (two grits) and then adhere it to the groove. Sharpen by running the scrub over it. Seems fairly simple but I have not had cause to try it yet.
I haven't tried this approach but it seems like it wouldn't work. When you sharpen, you have to lay the blade down to the bevel angle - say 30*. But when you cut the slot, you are cutting it at 45* so the shape of the slot is going to be different. Looking at the extremes, at 90* the shape will be the curve of the blade. At a very small angle, say one or two degrees, the shape will be a very slight cove. The same thing happens between the 45* angle of the bedding and the 30* for the sharpening.

Or maybe I'm missing something. Anyone tried this and can report on your success?

Mike

BTW, I sharpen my scrub freehand on waterstones. I find it pretty easy to control.

[Bill Turas]

Thanks...

I've not yet mastered sharpening freehand...

What I'm finding is that as I sharpen around the curve of the blade (freehand) my angles get all goofy. Doesn't really seem to make much difference when I'm touching up but causes all sorts of problems when I need to do a major re-sharpening. Which can take me forever...

I was in the early stages of that this am when I posted the question and spent the next couple of hours wondering if a power planer was the solution. (the scrub plane helps me make a living so time is important) I enjoy using the scrub plane, but not the sharpening.

I'm was thinking/hoping to find a way to sharpen these things while keeping a consistant angle around the blade. And which will keep the radius consistant as well, something I've long since lost. And a way to save myself time as well...

Cheers...

BIll

[Maurice Metzger]

Bill, I sharpen freehand, moving the blade sideways along the radius. I don't put a micro-bevel on the blade, so I can just concentrate on keeping the bevel flat.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=440604&postcount=10

But one other way you could try would be to clamp the blade upright in a vise. Put your sandpaper on a small flat piece of wood and bring the sandpaper to the blade instead of the other way around.

HTH,
Maurice

[Bill Turas]

Thanks Maurice...

I did try sideways this morning for the first time. I was thinking, "hey this seems to be working pretty darn good!" At the same time another little voice was saying "there's gotta be something wrong with doing it this way..." but it seemed to be working okay, even though it felt a bit like like cheating. I'll experiment with it some, and it may become a keeper...

Maybe now I won't be needing that power planer after all... : )

Bill

[Grant Lasson]

Mike, you are quite right. The geometry would eventually just rebevel the iron at the wrong angle.

I apparently never finished reading Chris Schwarz' article. He rips the softwood through the middle of the groove and then applies adhesive sandpaper. He calls these fids. He then clamps the iron in a vise and uses the various sandpaper grits to form his edge.

I'm not sure of the rules about posting links, so if I'm out of line just let me know. I will cease and desist.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/scrubPlanes/scrubPlanes1.asp

[Wilbur Pan]

If you are losing the curvature of the radius, which will impact the hogging ability of the scrub plane, all you have to do is spend more time sharpening on the side part of the cutting edge, and less at the front.

However, there's one thing to keep in mind:

It's a scrub plane. It's not a real precision tool. Since you're going to be cleaning up the surface anyway, all you really need out of it is the ability to take off wood fast. In which case, all the niceties of a consistent angle on your bevel isn't really critical.

[jonathan snyder]

Bill,

Have you seen this web page? http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/scrubsharp.html
It looks a bit labor intensive, but looks like it gets around the problem Mike brought up.

Jonathan

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Bill

I use scrub planes quite a bit so sharpening the blades is important. I have come up with a few different methods:

Method #1 is using a belt sander or grinder: http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/z_art/scrubPlaneBlade/index.asp

Method #2 is to use the LV Honing Guide Mk II, which comes with a cambered roller for this purpose. Alf wrote a great review, to which a few of us contributed: http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9742


Method #3 is my favourite. Go to the following article, then brouse your way halfway down to "A cambered scrub plane blade". You will then find what I call the"upside down honing guide" method. It is really funny looking but works very well! http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/z_art/MarkII-Angles/index.asp

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Millard]

Bill,
I work the iron from side to side over the stone. For irons that have a camber (curve), instead of going from side to side in a straight line, I describe an arc, feeling my way along the cutting edge. This is very simple and fast. I avoid the use of any jigs, (other than the tool rest on my hand cranked grinder) in sharpening, they just get in the way, of what should be a quick second nature process.
Rob Millard

[Ruston Hughes]

Bill,

I use a cheapo eclipse honing jig and just rock the blade from one side to the other as i pull the blade back. Doing it this way causes the bevel angle to vary along the edge and creates a small flat spot in the radius of the edge when the jig sits flat on its roller. But as someone mentioned earlier, it's a scrub plane used for rough work. It's not exact but it is quick and easy.

[David Weaver]

I haven't tried this approach but it seems like it wouldn't work. When you sharpen, you have to lay the blade down to the bevel angle - say 30*. But when you cut the slot, you are cutting it at 45* so the shape of the slot is going to be different. Looking at the extremes, at 90* the shape will be the curve of the blade. At a very small angle, say one or two degrees, the shape will be a very slight cove. The same thing happens between the 45* angle of the bedding and the 30* for the sharpening.

Or maybe I'm missing something. Anyone tried this and can report on your success?

Mike

BTW, I sharpen my scrub freehand on waterstones. I find it pretty easy to control.

If you use the method of making a groove, you're still sharpening the most important part of the blade. If you're screwing up the radius, then you can fix it again when you're forced to regrind.

I'd do it by hand, but I can see how the method of cutting a groove would be fine given that it's sharpening the part that does most of the digging. To minimize the issues, the microbevel could be cut at a shallower angle, though that would shorten the time between regrinding.

By the way, does anyone have a scrub plane that they feel like they want to get rid of? I have a good use for one right now - on very highly figured maple that the machine planer is just obliterating with huge tearout.

[Fred Gross]

I place the iron vertically in a vice and use Eze-lap small diamond hones to sharpen the radius(usually fine and super fine is all I need to fix the edge). It's easier for me to follow the bevel & radius when I do it this way. When I have it where I want it, I take it out of the vice and do a few sweeping arcs across an .06 diamond plate and then finish on a #8000 waterstone for honing.

[David Weaver]

Scratch the comment about needing a scrub plane - called LV this morning and put that fire out.

Thanks to Derek Cohen for having a great review online to help me make the decision, as I'm a LN/original Stanley loyalist and this is my first LV plane, though I do have some Veritas parts.

I have small/normal size hands (ring finger 8 or 9), but a WW buddy who will also be using the plane has gorilla hands, so an original stanley or LN update would probably have been met with chagrin.