Bakolite substitute?

[Scott Shepherd]

Had a call from a customer wanting to know if we did Bakolite material. I asked for the application and it appears to just be a label for an electrical panel. He said the engineer has spec'd the bakolite. Anything equivilant to that that's easily obtainable, or is it safe to use just normal plastic. He sent me a sample of something close, and looks like a normal piece of plastic to me.

Isn't Bakolite what used to be used all the time in the old days and has now been pretty much replaced with just normal plastic we use every day?

[Todd Luginbuhl]

You are correct back in the day it was used mainling in casting figures and small trinkets.
PP or PE would be a suitable replacement, with PP being the better choice for heat.

[Bruce Volden]

I just googled bakelite (sp) and phenolic and micarta also popped up. I have laser into a lot of micarta and it is wonderful stuff to work with. It is used in knife handles, electrical insulation and other app's. I most recently engraved an elk scene that I colorfilled then cut out as an oval. The customer inlaid it into his mantel / fireplace and was very pleased.


Bruce

[Scott Loven]

Bakelite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite)or Phenolic resin/paper laminate is what a lot of people use to make router table inserts from. It can handle WAY more heat then the other plastics that have been mentioned, around 250F for continuous use and will not distort.
Scott

Here are some pens that a guy made for me a while back. They are 1) phenolic/linen 2) graphite impregnated phenolic linen (Cool Blocks) and 3) phenolic canvas
http://www.vmtw.com/shop/pens.jpg

[Scott Shepherd]

I think he's just using old terminology. I showed him a piece of black/white laserable plastic and he said "Yeah, that's it, bakolite. That's exactly what I wanted".

[Joe Pelonio]

You just have to be aware of the various names given to engraving plastic laminates over the years. Bakelite, phenolic, p-lam, gravoply and probably other names have been used for what was just rotary engraving material until lasers came into the industry. Whatever they call it I just show them the Rowmark or IPI color charts or samples and they are always happy.

[Brian Robison]

Yeah, very old terminology. I believe Bakelite was the very first plastic invented.
Phenolic is usually if not always a thermoset plastic instead of a thermoplastic. All that means is it takes heat to make it solid where as a thermoplastic melts with temperature.

[Dave Jones]

Sometimes an engineer specifies bakelite just from history and habit, but other times he does it because he requires a more temperature resistant plastic than the typical plastics.

Bakelite is extremely hard and resists high temperatures. It's also fairly brittle and can be chipped. So it has it's good points and it's bad points. There are still some electrical items made using bakelite, but most have been replaced with more flexible high temperature plastics and synthetic rubbers.

Just make sure that teperature resistance is not a requirement of what your customer needs. Rowmark plastics will melt at temperatures that don't phase bakelite.

[Joe Pelonio]

Sometimes an engineer specifies bakelite just from history and habit, but other times he does it because he requires a more temperature resistant plastic than the typical plastics.

Just make sure that teperature resistance is not a requirement of what your customer needs. Rowmark plastics will melt at temperatures that don't phase bakelite.
Is real bakelite laserable?

[Mike Null]

To the best of my knowledge bakelite was never an engraving material.

It's most common use was for lights, switch plates, coffee makers and toasters. I can't remember when it first appeared but it was more than 50 years ago.

[Jim Becker]

You might try going to McMaster Carr and searching on "phenolic". The resulting product (Arbonite, I believe it's called) might work for you. Not inexpensive, but...

[Dave Jones]

Bakelite, phenolic, and melamin resin (all somewhat related) are engraved with rotating mechanical engravers. I read that at one point there was a two ply version sold, but I think that's no longer available.

There is a comment on Wikipedia that says "Bakelite is said to be easily laser-engraved; some hard engineering plastics work well." but it doesn't say what type of laser or power would be needed. Plus, the Wikipedia is not an extremely accurate source of info, since it is written by anybody and everybody on the web that feels like writing something. It is not a real encyclopedia.

[Doug McIntyre]

Could it possibly be that engraving plastic was once sold as "Traffolyte" ? - an easy mistake to make.

[Brian Robison]

Nice pens BTW.

[Scott Loven]

Bakelite, phenolic, and melamin resin (all somewhat related) are engraved with rotating mechanical engravers. I read that at one point there was a two ply version sold, but I think that's no longer available.

There is a comment on Wikipedia that says "Bakelite is said to be easily laser-engraved; some hard engineering plastics work well." but it doesn't say what type of laser or power would be needed. Plus, the Wikipedia is not an extremely accurate source of info, since it is written by anybody and everybody on the web that feels like writing something. It is not a real encyclopedia.
The multi colored engraving stock is still made.
http://www.norplex-micarta.com/products/category_detail.php?category_id=4

[Bill Cunningham]

Engravable white/red etc.., colour core, "two layer stuff" are some of the things I've been asked for, but by far the most common name outside of the engraving industry is 'Lamicoid' I.E. lamicoid labels, lamicoid panels, lamicoid signs.. This seems to be the common name in the electronics, and electrical industries..

[Scott Shepherd]

Bill, when asked for Lamicoid, are you just using the normal materials from IPI, Rowmark, or Gravograph in it's place?

[Mike Null]

This is from the Synrad web site:

Bakelite is one of the few materials on which a CO2 laser produces a white-on-dark contrasting mark. The mark is produced by a surface bleaching effect, therefore the energy input is low, offering extremely fast mark cycle times at low powers.

[Bill Cunningham]

Bill, when asked for Lamicoid, are you just using the normal materials from IPI, Rowmark, or Gravograph in it's place?

Yup.. What they are generally looking for is a plastic that has a surface colour, and a contrasting letter colour that they can stick or screw to something.. I give them the choice of peal'n'stick, or holes.. That industry has been generically calling all types of this 'label; material lamicoid (or sometimes lamacoid) for many years..

[Dave Jones]

"Lamicoid". That's the name I was thinking about when I said I thought the engraving material wasn't available any more. Lamicoid was a brand name and is no longer made. I didn't know about the other similar material that is still available, that was mentioned a few messages above.

I suspect Lamicoid became a generic name, like Scotch tape and Bakelite (which are both registered trademarks), and many industries just started calling all engravable phenolics "Lamicoid".

[Tony Lenkic]

It has been about 40 years when I was apprentce in electrical field with electrical power distribution authority.
I do remember building boxes for electrical meters with fuses and we used bakelite sheets maybe 1/4" thick on which meters and fuses were mounted. Bakelite was used as an electrical insulator type of material. It was brownish color smuth and shiny and easy to drill to pass wiring trough. Not long after this was replaced with molded prefabricated units.
I have never seen any of bakelites come as 2 ply material. Phenolics are the ones that were ply type material and are materials used in control panel for many industrial applications. With new formulations of plastics use of phenolics is rare and as Bill said electrical contractors are still using the name "Phenolics / Lamacoids" as to referance to what we use today's Rowmark / IPI plastics for identifications of electrical panels etc.
The name Lamacoids must have come from laminated plastics.

Tony

[Mike Null]

Coincidentally, I just did my first phenolic engraving job today.

The customer, Cooper-Bussman needed a few fuse blocks marked to Mil. specs 100.

Their item had been stamped with white ink which I removed with acetone, then engraved the items adding new info, color filled and cleaned them.