Need advice on new Engraver

[Paul Owen]

Hi all,

First time here and I came with a very specific question. Although I am in Australia this forum seemed to be the most knowledgable on the subject of laser engraving.

I need some advice on a new machine, any faults or other relavant data on the following short list. (Cost and maybe support will be irrelevant as we are based in Australia.)

Machines I am interested in are: Trotec Speedy 300
Epilog Helix 40watt
and, Gravograph LS800

Any and all help and advise will be appreciated.
Paul

[Nancy Laird]

Paul, have you look at the Universal 40W? We have one, and it's a great machine!

Nancy

[Mike Null]

Paul:

I purchased a Trotec Speedy 300 about 8 months ago and am very happy with it.

I did a lot of homework before buying it--I had a Universal for 8 years.

Make a careful comparison of all the features including maintenance, speed and warranty.

[Peck Sidara]

Paul,

My $.02 from an Epilog employee... In general there will be pros and cons for all of the mfg's you've listed, depending on what you like, ergonomics, mechanics, features, your current needs and application(s). Consider the following:

Who are you buying from? Consider the local reps knowledge on the product, their service and after sales support. Ask for references. Engraving Concepts here in the states are well known on this forum simply because of their involvement, dedication and support of the equipment they sell. Simiarly we have excellent Australian reps in Project Engraving and Alfex. I've met most of the guys with both companies and am very impressed with their knowledge, company history and how they handle their customers.
In case of difficulty, who do you contact? Your local rep or the mfg.directly? How's the response time? How does their technical support work?I know you've stated support is irrelevant but I beg to differ. Just because you're in Australia doesn't mean you can't get the same or similar support as a customer who is just a few miles away from the mfg.

[Larry Bratton]

Epilog 40watt EXT 24x36 here. Unbelievable machine. I think all major brands will do about the same things..service availabilty should be the deciding factor if the price is not an object. The Epilog is a complete system, vacuum table, vector grid, air assist etc. The driver is very good too, with advanced color mapping. Good luck with your purchase.

[Rodne Gold]

I cannot stress the support issue more stongly than others have , all the lasers you mention do the same thing , they are all good. Your prime determinant of who you should buy from is 1) the warrantee offered and 2) the support offered.
I would get the longest bumper to bumper warrantee you can , vitally the tube must NOT be excluded from this warrantee. Good support should ensure you are never down more than a day or 2.

[David Fairfield]

Software might possibly be an issue. Apparently, many or most machines are optimized for Corel. If you prefer using something else, check it out with the manufacturers' tech people.

I've been using Adobe Illustrator on my Epilog. Though the manufacturer did tell me to expect some quirks, as long as the document dimensions are dialed in properly, it runs .ai files perfectly!

Dave

[Paul Owen]

Thanks,

All of you have been helpful. The only thing I haven't seen is any negative remarks. I know that everyone will always say the machine they have is great.
We have a Trotec Speedy 25 at the moment and running Corel 12. The last 12 months have been a constant series of small breakdowns which could be easier fixed if Trotec had a local support site. They are inter-state from me and take 1-2 days to send parts up. Simply the machine is getting old. Though we do plan on keeping the Speedy 25 for busy periods.
I have learnt many new desciptive expletives to describe the Trotec over the last few months.
Epilog and Gravograph have local reps (Alflec is the only one we have been too for a demo so far) I am comparing all the machines for warranty and speed, size and power etc, but sales reps wont always point out faults or problem issues on their babies and only give bad reviews on the competitors machines which I have taken with a grain of salt.

An unbiased, user opion is what I am after. Thank you again for your help so far.
Paul

[Bill Cunningham]

Paul, I would do a search on this forum, using the Manuf. names, and read what comes up.. If there are chronic problems with any machine I'm sure it will become apparent. Also, it will give you a good idea of the service/speed/quality (or lack of same) given by various manuf. It's very rare to actually read something really slagging a particular brand, most of the main names have been around for years and all are pretty dependable. Service is where it's at. ALL machines will fail or suffer a problem at some point. The key is how fast your back up and running, earning the money the manuf. wants you to spend with them 'next' time you need a machine..

[Keith Outten]

Paul,

There are lots of threads here that identify manufacturers and machine models that our Members have experienced problems with. Everything from CO2 tube failures to power supply problems to rotten tech support, etc.

Cruise this Forum and read the posts concerning problems. I have been working on a database that includes the information reported here but it is not ready for publication.

I own an Epilog Legend Model 24 that is about 4 years old. My CO2 tube failed out of warrenty with a very low number of hours on my machine, my guess is that I had approximately 500 hours...far short of the 20,000 to 30,000 hours I expected. I learned that the 20 to 30 thousand hour figure is based on the CO2 gas and not the electrical components in the tube. The next time I shop for a new laser engraver I will be looking for a much longer warrenty than 12 months.

Epilog has excellent tech support, I doubt any manufacturer could be better. My Legend, in spite of a couple problems has been a really good machine.

Xenetech has a very strange system that requires you to register not only their software but the print driver as well. You have to contact them to receive what is basically an unlock code. Should you have to contact them to many times they can require you to pay a fee for a new code. I was told that if your computer gets a virus or you experience hardware failures they will be understanding and give you a new code. If it happens to often then a fee will have to be paid for the code. Why would any company feel the need to require an unlock code on a driver that will only work with their machine?

Xenetech is also experiencing a problem with their print driver since December of 2006. While it isn't serious it is a nagging bug that requires a few extra mouse clicks every time you print to the laser. The bug has been reported and I have discussed the problem with the sales rep and with the tech support team leader...their working on the problem.

You will find many instances of these kinds of problems thoughout this Forum and a few who will report that they haven't had any problems at all but for the most part a failure is going to happen sooner of later. This is why you will see so many people suggesting a very long warrenty and selecting a company that has the best support system.

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[Paul Owen]

That's great advice. I have been checking each manufacture and machine out online and compiling my data. I have also looked over previous thead topics and it has all been helpful. Your input is just to flesh out my comparisons and is very appreciated. I'll post when the decision has been made (not entirely up to me, I'm just the IT guy doing the leg work)

[Dean Carpenter]

Paul,

I know Barry Diamond (Trotec Rep for Oz) very well. He's had years in the business and I am sure he can help solve your issues with your old Trotec. You can email Barry at info@barwell.net.au

If it's just remote support or general advice that you need then I can help. Let me know if you get stuck.

regards

Dean

[Joe Pelonio]

I have the same Epilog as Keith, and had a tube go out on warranty, another after it had expired. Other than the replacement tube cost I can say nothing
negative. Their customer support is top notch.

My machine often (like right now) is running 8-10 hours a day on big production jobs. Whatever you get either negotiate a longer tube warranty or pay for the extended one. At the very least ask for the replacement price and set aside funds for it.

[Marc Myer]

Most of us purchased our machines after a lot of homework, and as a result have a respect for the high quality all around. This means there's not a lot of discussion of brand superiority, just collective problem solving. This also means the highest selling models will have proportionately higher incidents of reported problems, due to sheer numbers.
Bottom line: Tech support and vendor helpfulness is the most important aspect of ownership. It's worth the money we pay for our machines.

[Paul Owen]

A big thank you all again for help and assistance from my original questions.

Futher to some responses I have recieved personally, I wish to make it absolutely clear that my remarks and comments are not and never were intended to personally attack Trotec, it's representatives or affiliates here in Australia or in the wider engraving community. The opinions expressed were my personal views only and my wording of some opinion may have been wrongly expressed. Any mis-interpretation should not have been taken to heart as the crux of the matter was to gain valuable knowledge of engraver capabilities only.

Although recent problems with our old machine have occured, the machine had an excellent run of 4 years prior to this of invaluable service to our business and given quality output for those years. Bawell Machine Tools in Sydney has been very helpful to our business for many, many years and have supported us, and still do, with excellent service.

Paul

[Mark Winlund]

In defense of Xenetech, I was told that the reason they are so picky with unlock codes, was that other mfrs were using Xenetech's software as drivers for non Xenetech machines.

I have 3 xenetech rotary engravers and have never had a problem with getting unlock codes. They just check their database, and if you are in there, you will get the codes.

Also I might add, I have been dealing with them for over 20 years... back when the computers were Radio Shack model 4's, and they used floppys (360k) to load the system. No hard drives. The program was called "Tuesday" and was an improvement on the Dahlgren software. The software was written in Basic, and I spent a number of long hours on the phone with a lady named Eileen who was their head programmer.

Unfortunately, the founder of Xenetech, Jay Hoffpauir, has gone to the big engraving shop in the sky. I'm sure that others on the forum remember him (Roy Brewer) as a hard working innovative guy.

Mark

[Roy Brewer]

Unfortunately, the founder of Xenetech, Jay Hoffpauir, has gone to the big engraving shop in the sky. I'm sure that others on the forum remember him as a hard working innovative guy.Mark,
You are right; a day doesn't go by that I don't remember that hard working, innovative guy!

[Keith Outten]

Mark,

I dislike unlock codes because they are generally a nuisence to paying customers and there are other ways of protecting machine specific software. Its like paying for gas before you pump which penalizes paying customers just because a few will drive off without paying. I could see Xenetech protecting their software I guess but not their print driver.

Concerning Xenetech's print driver bug I would have appreciated knowing in advance, preferably before the sale, that they had an ongoing problem. We purchased an XLT1325-60 last December and the print driver bug still exists. When the sales Rep installed our laser engraver in January she seemed surprised when the driver stopped printing whenever the drawing size was changed in Corel Draw even though the bug was a known issue by Xenetech.

Discussing the problem with Xenetech's tech support the bug was downplayed because there is a simple work around, for me that isn't the point. Had I purchased a new $35,000 Mercedes and had to roll down the window to open the door that would also be a nuisence work around but I doubt any customer would be pleased with having to contend with such a problem on such an expensive machine. This is June so seven months have passed with no fix for the driver problem yet.

I discussed the issue with the President of Xenetech a couple months ago, he explained that they were aware of the issue and had hired an outside company to assist in resolving the problem. I am waiting patiently.

In spite of other problems I have experienced that were corrected by a field rep visit to our office our Xenetech laser engraver is working reasonably well now. My production schedule is such that I will not have time for many months to tweak speed and power settings in an effort to improve the vector cutting quality I expect the machine is capable of producing. With thousands of signs to make and the slack in my schedule long gone the luxury of spending time experimenting is not an option.

In spite of my rather rocky start up problems I expect that in time I will enjoy the Xenetech laser engraver. I believe it is a first class machine and will prove to be a real work horse. I have provided Xenetech with some constructive suggestions I feel would improve the startup experience for their new customers in the future, nothing earth shattering just a few things that other laser manufacturers do that Xenetech doesn't.

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[Brian Robison]

Keith, do you sleep?

[Keith Outten]

Brian,

I am an early riser, not by choice I can't seem to sleep over 6 hours per day anymore no matter how tired I am.

I often find myself getting up during the night and then back to bed for an hour or two before its time to crank up the coffee pot :)

I have learned to enjoy the quiet time in the early morning though, it is the time I use to do most of my sign design work...after checking in on The Creek mind you :)

.

[Frank Corker]

Keith you're a weirdo - go to bed!

(Said Frank at 01.30 GMT ;) )

[Keith Outten]

Hey Frank,

I'm not alone...I can see the names of everyone who is visiting The Creek during the wee hours :)

Of course when its late at night here its daytime somewhere else in the world but we don't think of that when we are half asleep.

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