Lie-Neilsen Scraper Planes And Ductile Iron

[Eric Commarato]

I am planing to equip my workshop with a scraper plane. I am looking at 2 different planes both made by Lie-Neilsen. The No. 85 cabinet maker's plane is the one I am leaning toward because it is a bit smaller than the LN 112. The company states in the tool's description that it is made of ductile iron and can take a lot of abuse. The thing I wonder about this beautifully made plane is that it appears to be held together by only the curved side cheek castings. I have seen this model made by Stanley, rare as it may be, in on-line auctions. and a few have been broken at this area of the casting. I suppose Stanley planes are made of gray cast iron and not ductile iron, and would be more prone to breaking at the cheek points. I have no doubt in Lie Neilsen as a plane manufacturer, I own several of their fine planes. The thing I wonder about is Stanley's basic design for this plane. The other thing I wonder about is the probability of this plane to flex along its sole because of this tenuous cheek casting. Anyone who owns one of the LN 85s, I guess I am looking for a little assurance before I make my purchase.


EC.

[Roy Wall]

Eric,

I think all the assurance you need is in the lifetime warranty of the tool - less the abuse factor.
Secondly, I believe Deneb (LN tool show guy) also prefers the #85 over the #112 also....due to the balance and size of the tool.

Enjoy!

[Andrew Dix]

Long time lurker here - I'll share some of my thoughts on the 85. The 85 was one of my first planes, the 60 1/2R was the other. Ductile iron is really strong. I've seen a 60 1/2R casting that was droped on its nose (and then whacked with a hammer I believe). The material is wickedly strong. I have not notice the 85 flex in use. I have noticed the 140 pair flex in heavy use, (rabbeting mode) which is to be understood. With a light cut (.0005-.002) the flex is virtually eliminated. The 85 has a full width iron and tilting knob and tote so that it can get into some tight places.

Deneb Puchalski likes both the 212 and the 85 over the 112. If I were going to get a scraper today, I'd get the 212 because it is adjustable, and I have a big preference for bronze tools. You will not be disappointed witht the 85. It is a great tool, and don't have any hesitations, as Mr. Wall pointed out, its a lifetime tool. You won't be sorry...well maybe you will when you decide you've gotta have more...

[Roy Wall]

Andrew,

I didn't remember the #85 had the tilting knob......good points....that is an advantage!

Welcome to SMC!

[Rob Millard]

Eric,
I had a LN 85 and it was the only tool from them I was unhappy with. I was fortunate enough to sell it on Ebay for almost what I paid for it. The blades are in my opinion too thick to be truly effective at scraping.
I now have the Lee Valley scraper plane and it works very well, but I rarely use it, since I prefer to use a bench plane.
Rob Millard

[Eddie Darby]

I would not worry about the strength of the tool that LN offer, as it is more than strong enough to do the job. You don't read here or anywhere else for that matter about them failing. I would suggest that the broken planes that you are seeing may have suffered some kind of abuse during their life-time that you are not aware of.

This page is interesting in that it shows the bottom of both Stanley an the LV scraper plane.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=48431&cat=1,41182,48945

Here is the LN page for their scraper planes:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=508


This page shows the raw casting of the LN scraper plane.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=112#

If I have to remove a fair amount of wild grain wood, I use a toothed blade in a bench or block plane, then I finish up using a scraper plane to smooth out the final surface. I only use a scraper plane if it is the only way to get a smooth surface, and then it is only for thin shavings, otherwise I finish it by taking a very very thin shaving from a tight mouthed plane, with a very very sharp blade.

The fact that a scraper plane only takes very thin small shavings places very little demand on the plane body. If these things were falling apart all the time, I am sure that LN and LV would have improved the design by now, .....but they haven't.

[Mike Cutler]

Eric.
I have the LN 85, and it's a beauty.
It shouldn't flex, or break if used properly. I've never run into this problem with it, at least.
It's a very nice addition to your plane collection.
I suck with card scrapers, so this plane was particurally valuable to me.

[Larry Rose]

I have the LN 85 and it works fine. I also have the LN 112 and its even better. Both require some fussing with to get the hang of sharpening and adjusting much the same as card scrapers. I hate sanding and they save a lot of time doing that.

[John Miliunas]

I have the LN 85 and it works fine. I also have the LN 112 and its even better. Both require some fussing with to get the hang of sharpening and adjusting much the same as card scrapers. I hate sanding and they save a lot of time doing that.

Larry, interesting mention of "sharpening and adjusting". LN apparently says to just sharpen the iron and use it "as is", while other folks mention adding a burr to it. How do you go about sharpening/adjusting? I'm really very interested in this, as a 112 is on my very, very "short list". :) :cool:

[Larry Rose]

John, I've tried it both ways and yes it will work with just a 45 deg. bevel but after burnishing an edge just like on a card scraper, it does even better. It takes a little more tinkering to get the burr right and to adjust the cutting angle and depth after the blade is in place. It is sort of a trial and error process to begin with and once you get it right the little light in your head comes on and its smooth sailing(or planing) from then on. Be aware though that not all woods scrape well. I use a lot of cypress and it does not like the scrapers. I suppose this would apply to a lot of soft woods.

[John Miliunas]

John, I've tried it both ways and yes it will work with just a 45 deg. bevel but after burnishing an edge just like on a card scraper, it does even better. It takes a little more tinkering to get the burr right and to adjust the cutting angle and depth after the blade is in place. It is sort of a trial and error process to begin with and once you get it right the little light in your head comes on and its smooth sailing(or planing) from then on. Be aware though that not all woods scrape well. I use a lot of cypress and it does not like the scrapers. I suppose this would apply to a lot of soft woods.

Thanks for the info, Larry. What my Neander guru had told me is, if/when I get one, to set it up according to the way LN tells you. If you like the way it cuts, leave it; If not, start playing a bit with the burr. I mainly work hardwoods and I'm particularly interested for figured woods, like BE Maple or the occasional figured Cherry and such. First step will be to actually get my grubby mitts on the scraper! :D Thanks again! :) :cool: