Who's buying all these StopSaws?

[Rob Floyd]

Hi everyone,
The name's Rob and I live northwest of Baltimore.

I've been reading the forum for a while and this is my first post. I've been involved in woodworking for a long time but it's been in fits and starts - plenty of both but mostly on the sidelines. I'm within 2 years of retirement and already visualizing the dream shop with my upgraded tool collection, building an occasional piece of furniture to justifying more tools, getting new tools to build jigs for the tools I already have, etc. Out -will go the Rockwell contractor's saw in - will come a cabinet saw. I read so much good stuff about Grizzly that it has to be a Grizz., then I started reading about all you guys (and gals) buying SawStops and raving about the safety and quality.

SawStop was never on my short list but I'm listening. It's making more sense everyday. Never had an accident with the TS but a couple of near misses. I'm working more safely but there's still that one time ....... and when my married kids get time http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon12.gif and make some grandkids, I want to be able to hold them with all my limbs and digits.

Who is buying these things; rank amateur hobbiests like myself, serious hobbiests, unabashed tool junkies, professionals, schools, prisons, http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon11.gif etc? I assume one has to have a good amount of discretionary cash or is willing to sacrifice for the quality and safety.

Just curious

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Rob......Welcome to the Creek!

I don't own a SawStop....but a lot of folks do! If you can afford it, it appears to be what they advertise a saw that will stop the blade in the event your flesh or wet wood touches it. Folks that have reviewed feel the quality is good from the reports we've been given here by members. Amateurs to Pros and yes schools have bought it.

Again.....Welcome to the Creek!

[Jim Becker]

Rob, welcome to SMC!

The folks that are buying the SawStop saw are a diverse group. Basically, the buyer is someone that places value on the features that the machine affords, including the safety aspects.

There have been many discussions of this tool here at SMC. You can use the search feature to identify those threads and read through previous commentary. (I do recommend you use the "Advanced Search" and limit your search to the General Woodworking forum with the keyword "SawStop")

[Rob Floyd]

Ken,

Thank you!
The saw was way out of my price range when I first heard about it. It is now becoming a serious personal consideration. It would be a stretch but it would be the last saw I would buy.

[Ben Grunow]

The answer to your question is, yes. Those who can afford and want a great saw that happens to have a great safety feature.

Got mine for same reasons you mentioned, grandpa, kids and me over time. Look at your fingers and think about what one is worth whilie you ponder the cost of a TS.

Ben

[James Phillips]

I bought one and love it. The quality is top notch even without the safety features

[Mark Rios]

I bought one and love it. The quality is top notch even without the safety features

I feel James brings up a point that gets overlooked too often and overshadowed by the political argument that inevitably arises in SawStop threads.

The saw is a top-of-the-line quality saw in its own right. I had an oppourtunity to spend some time with one a while back. I'm no expert on TS's by any means but the saw was definately a top quality saw. From what others have written on this subject, it's one of the front runners in the 10", top-of-the-line saw class.

Adding the exclusively unique safety features puts it in a little different class making it hard to compare on an even plane. When I was looking to buy, I was comparing the quality of the saw to it's competitors and seeing the safety features as a (very important) bonus. I would have bought one at the time but it would have cost me roughly $20,000; $4500 for the saw and about $15,000 for a bigger trailer/shop. :D Plus, I would have had to enlarge the parking area at the multi-unit rental property that I'm managing and the owners didn't see the expenditure in the same terms that I did. :D :D :D

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I purchased a General cabinet saw prior to the introduction of the Sawstop.

If I were in the market for a new cabinet saw, I would purchase the Sawstop just for the safety features.

I looked at the Sawstop at a recent woodworking show, and was able to watch a member of the audience demonstrate the blade brake by attempting to cut a weiner with it. The saw stopped instantly, the weiner only had a tiny nick on it. Needless to say, I was very impressed.

I don't know if the other aspects of the saw are superior to a good cabinet saw, however the safety aspect puts it in another league.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. My usage is hobby use.

[John Hain]

I think you'll find everyone who has seen a Sawstop in action and up close will rave about its quality. By this, they usually say it's on par or of better quality than any other cabinet saw on the market today.

Within the next couple months, I'm making the decision on a Sawstop or a Minimax/Felder slider. For me, any other cabinet saw is inferior.

[Nissim Avrahami]

Welcome to the forum Rob

I'm an amateur already 12 years. For 10 years I was working with this "TS", as you can see, no splitter, no guard, homemade table top, fence and miter gauge and the rip fence on the left of the blade (or in simple word - I was Idiot).


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/avrahami/Old%20TS/TS3.jpg


I never had kickback or "close call" because I respect the machine and never put my fingers closer than 4~6" from the blade and if I had to, I always use push shoe or alike.
Also, operating from the left side of the blade, I never had to reach my hand over the blade, the control is much better with two push blocks (close to the body, pulling the workpiece toward the fence and pushing it down before and after the blade so, even if a kickback wants to "bang", I kill it when it's "still a baby").

Now I have new TS with Riving knife and guard and I use them all the time (except some operations with the 45° frame cutting sled that my hands are far away from the blade) but still I have this "Iron Rule", no hands or fingers less than 6" from the blade, push shoes and push blocks.


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Glass%20table/001.jpg


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Glass%20table/004.jpg


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Glass%20table/008.jpg


Why to buy Sawstop? Well, if I was planning to work without Splitter/Riving knife and guard, and, if I was planning ahead to put my fingers so close to the blade that an accident can occur, I would buy it but because I don't have such an intentions at the age of 62, a good TS satisfies me.

Have a safe work
niki

[Sam Blanchard]

Rob:
Serious hobbyist here. After being on the waiting list for over 3 years for the (still not released) contractor's model, I told the LOML that I just couldn't work with only a circ saw and my Japanese handsaws, and had to have the cabinet model. I am one of the very lucky - she agreed!!!:D
Yeah the blade brake is a big factor, but as Mark pointed out there are a host of other features which helped me decide - the riving knife, the table size, arbor size, the arbor/blade assembly and it's motion. Even if you never need the brake (hope you don't) it's an awesome machine. I didn't really have the cash to spare, but quality and safety can't be added aftermarket. Just my .02, YMMV

[Don Bullock]

Rob,

I'm in just about the same position that you are. I will be finishing out this school year and have one more to teach before I retire. Due to the lack of available time and space I haven't been doing much woodworking for about the past 25 years and decided that when I retire I'd like to get back into the hobby. Like you, I'm building my dream shop with my upgraded tool collection, building an occasional piece of furniture or other woodworking project to justifying more tools and having a blast.

Recently I decided I needed to replace my table saw. My old one was a 1979 Craftsman contractor's saw that used to take me forever to set up for a cut. My wife was watching me set up the fence the other day for a simple rip cut in some plywood. She couldn't believe all the girations I had to go through to make sure that the fence was parallel to the blade as well as set to the correct distance from the blade. That saw served me well, but it has long since been surpassed my more modern technology.

I just purchased a SawStop yesterday (full gloat, with pictures, to be posted later today after it is delivered). My reasoning is that I despriately needed a better saw. The SawStop is one of the best, if not the best, table saws available. Of course, I was also drawn in by the safety features of the saw. The riving knife and blade guard/splitter are excellent and nothing comes close to the brake feature. When I went to Eagle Tools in LA yesterday to order the saw they demonstrated the brake for me. I must admit I was blown away. Yes, I had seen all the videos, including the slow motion ones on the Wood magazine site, but to see it perform in person was much better. It also helped to show my wife the videos on the SawStop website.;) I also have ordered an Incra fence for the SawStop, but the fence they sell for the saw is excellent.

So, to answer your question, some rank amateur hobbiests like you are buying the SawStop. I've never had an accident and don't plan to either, but I just couldn't justify purchasing a table saw without the brakeing feature. Don't misunderstand, I fully agree with many here that there are some great saws that are currently on the market for a lot less money. For me, however, I feel that the extra cost over something like a Powermatic 2000 is like an inurance policy. It was rather ironic that about a week after my wife and I decided to make the purchase my tax man (brother-in-law) gave us the news that the state and Uncle Sam were going to have to refund over $4,000 of our taxes. Mine will be fully paid for when the tax refund checks arrive.:D

Good luck on your decision.

[Ed Blough]

What I have noticed is any one with insurance issues also buy the Sawstop. I don't know if their insurance company is forcing this or not. It seems that anywhere the general public comes into contact with a saw, be it a school, demo, rent a shop, use our machines DIY and etc.

I don't know the motivation but I suspect insurance underwriters have been pressured and are pressuring clients.

[Mike Henderson]

I don't know the motivation but I suspect insurance underwriters have been pressured and are pressuring clients.
I think maybe the insurance underwriters are the ones applying the "pressure". Insurance underwriters are the ones within an insurance company who evaluate the risk and set the rates for a policy. If they believe that some aspect of the equipment reduces the chance (and cost) of loss, they will give a lower price for the insurance. For example, when anti-lock brakes were first available on cars, you got a lower rate on your insurance if your car had anti-lock brakes.

If insurance companies are giving lower liability insurance rates to people who own a SawStop, that's a big vote of confidence by some very hard headed people that the saw reduces the cost of injuries.

Mike

[Peter Melanson]

I am an amature WW just working on setting up a shop. I bought the SS for the quality of what I saw and what the recent magazines are saying about it. And of course the second reason is the safety features since I need my hands to work. Yes it is true if you respect a TS you shouldn't have many problems. But there is always that chance of something happening or lack of concentration and bam your done. I love mine and highly recommned it to anyone it is well worth the cost.

peter

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Take a long hard gander at the sliding saws too.

They are way, way, way more safe than the conventional TS and offer an outrageously better level of performance.
Felder, Hammer, MiniMax; ya simply can not go wrong with a good 8' or bigger slider -and they take up way less room than most might think.

[Mike Heidrick]

I bought the sawstop. I am an amateur who loves tools. I am building my shop right and even though it will be a while before I retire I still know what I like to do and the quality of tools I like to work with. I had a Delta hybrid saw and loved it. I was intrigued by the brake but once I saw how nice of a tool the Sawstop was I was sold. I showed my family and they were sold as well. I am seriously happy with my TS choice. You will decide if that choice is right for you as well.

If my new baby daughter grows up to like WW, then she too will have a nice saw to use. As my dad gets older he too will have a nice TS to use through the rest of his WW days. It is right for us and that is all I care about. Nothing political or monetary about that IMO.

[Art Mann]

Who is buying the Sawstop? That is an interesting question that none of us has any way of knowing, statistically speaking. I will venture a guess, like everyone else. First, I would say small to medium commercial shops. The prospect of protecting oneself and limiting liability of employees ought to be very appealing. Second, I would guess high schools and trade schools. Students are notoriously reckless and present a huge risk. The technology would certainly be worth the price in that environment. Third, a number of really affluent hobbiests are buying the saw. I very much doubt that hobbiests are a large percentage of their customer base because such a small percentage of hobbiests are willing or able to pay the price. Sawmill Creek has a significant minority of Sawstop owners, but I don't think this population is representative of the overall woodworking community. That's my guess.

[Per Swenson]

For us it went like this...

We cut wood for a living.

Now 3 generations. All in the same shop.

In a residential neighborhood.

You know the place, the door is always open.

Anyway one day I looked at the Sawstop and showed my

Father the page on the intertoobz.

Went

to get my self a cup of coffee.

Came back...He was on the phone with card in hand.

Noooooo! I yelled. What the heck you doin!

He just looked at me with those 82 year old eyes, and said....

"You would have to be stupid not to buy this saw."

I moaned for weeks.

Not anymore.

We are extremely satisfied customers.

Per

[Eric Wong]

LOL! Per, that was an awesome anecdote!

I am a part-time instructor at my local Woodcraft, and we have a SawStop in the classroom. I can't tell you how much my mind is eased by having it in there.

I have spoken to many who are considering the saw, and a few who did buy it. Professionals, hobbyists, and even one brand new woodworker whose wife insisted that safety is more important than price (I'm sure there is an upper limit to that line of thinking, but for many the SawStop is within reach). I wish more people thought that way. Others have already said it very well, the features and quality surpass even the venerable Powermatic saws.

You get what you pay for with tools (buying new, that is), and this is no exception.

[Jules Dominguez]

I'm a hobbyist of about 47 years duration. Started with a Craftsman 9" RAS, added a Rockwell contractors saw in the early 80's, now retired, have the space and the change to afford the Sawstop. I bought one for the top quality, top safety, and the dust collection ability. The saw is a joy to use, and I'm very pleased with the purchase.

[Lane Mabbett]

As the saying goes, "Long time listener, first time caller", as this is my first post. So here goes... I was in the market to replace my old Delta 9" saw when I started seeing this saw reviewed and getting great reviews at that. Having been in an accident years ago which resulted in severe damage to my back which involved months of hard work to get all functionality back to my hands, I appreciate above all else how important those fingers and thumbs are. So, as a serious hobbyist, and knowing that this was the last saw I was ever going to buy, the decision was made. The saw is amazing, needed little calibration and setup out of the crate, and in casual conversations with other users of the saw, I now know of 2 people in my area who've walked away from a flesh to blade situation, one requiring a band aid and one requiring nothing at all. I'm not affluent, but if my grandfather taught me anything, it was don't skimp on tools.

[John Gornall]

I don't need a Sawstop. I have 45 years of tablesaw experience and I'm not afraid of it. I had good training in the beginning. I have been through every kickback and slip there is and survived. I have witnessed saw accidents. My current saw is well set up and I am prepared to complete all types of cuts safely. I will be fine as long as I'm still sawing.

But - my son in law is now learning my tablesaw and my 3 year old Grandson has his eye on it. It's more than my personal safety now.

And I hope safety technology will grow into all the other accident possible machine tools in my shop. I know more people that have had bandsaw and mitersaw accidents than table saw accidents.

A safer future for all tools and everyone using them - keep moving ahead.

[Todd Solomon]

I think most are buying the much cheaper version of it. Its called a pushstick. You can make them for free from scrap wood.

Spencer, I sense there was a bit of tongue in cheek with your post, but I'll reply anyway. Does a pushstick prevent kick-back? Sometimes kick-back can draw your hand into the blade, or throw a chunk of wood into your body at deadly speeds. Sometimes, you may have your hand far from the blade, but get drawn into the blade with kick-back. The riving knife prevents most all kick-back, This, in combination with the blade brake and retraction are the real deal, not just some gimmick.

And hey, I don't even own a SawStop, but I do own a bit of common sense. Enough common sense to appreciate the safety and quality that the SawStop brings to the craft.

Todd

[Bill Jepson]

a push stick and a full crop of healthy genes = a $5000 savings.

All the machines are going to take all of our jobs too... That is just denial.
The Powermatic 2000 was $3,000.00 at a full price Woodcraft store. The SawStop was $4,000.00 with everything I'd want to throw at it, so the DIFFERENCE was about $1,000. Prehaps you didn't pay anything for your current tablesaw? I don't own a SawStop, and I've never had a TS accident, doesn't mean it can't happen.
Not even taking the brake into account and ligitamately looking at the saw and it's features, (I'm a mechanical engineer by trade), the saw is better built than the competition. Without the safety features I'd pay more for the SS than a Powermatic or Delta. All politics aside they backed up the talk with an excellently built product. I found it easier to set up, to change blades, to adjust a cut. And the design allows the insert to remain in place with nil clearance on an angled cut. Good design. HUGE solid arbor. If I was starting now (and didn't have a saw now) I'd buy one. I may STILL buy one and I'm not wealthy.
Bill Jepson

[Al Willits]

Venturing a WAG here, I'd say many of the hobbyist, part time wood workers are balking at the cost, not whether its well made or not.
Not all can say "ya can't spend to much on safety" as they don't have "to much" to spend.

Quality? yeah its well made, but along them lines we should be buying all Fesstools, euro saws, Snap On tools and Lee Nielsen (sp?), whatever tools, for some it ain't gonna happen.

I see a Sawstop in my future, right after my ship comes in....:)

Until then, I'll try and keep them fingers away from the blade, and the router bits, and the chisels, and the planer, and the jointer and everything else that bites in the crazy hobby....:)

Al.....who used to think drag racing a motorcycle was dangerous..

[Don Bullock]

All the machines are going to take all of our jobs too... That is just denial.
The Powermatic 2000 was $3,000.00 at a full price Woodcraft store. The SawStop was $4,000.00 with everything I'd want to throw at it, so the DIFFERENCE was about $1,000. Prehaps you didn't pay anything for your current tablesaw? I don't own a SawStop, and I've never had a TS accident, doesn't mean it can't happen.
Not even taking the brake into account and ligitamately looking at the saw and it's features, (I'm a mechanical engineer by trade), the saw is better built than the competition. Without the safety features I'd pay more for the SS than a Powermatic or Delta. All politics aside they backed up the talk with an excellently built product. I found it easier to set up, to change blades, to adjust a cut. And the design allows the insert to remain in place with nil clearance on an angled cut. Good design. HUGE solid arbor. If I was starting now (and didn't have a saw now) I'd buy one. I may STILL buy one and I'm not wealthy.
Bill Jepson

Bill, you bring out some good points that I didn't realize until I saw the SawStop in person. The SawStop is about a grand more than a Powermatic 2000, and at least as well built. As you mentioned, it always has a zero clearance insert. That's something that surprised me. In fact, I had added a zero clearance insert to my original order and the salesman asked me why I wanted two. The SawStop is as solid or more solid than any other saw on the market. The grinding on the top is as smooth as I have ever seen on a machine. That was the first thing I noticed when I saw the SawStop. One safety feature that I didn't know about until I saw the SawStop is that the blade guard has a riving knife, not a traditional splitter, attached to it. Changing from riving knife to the blade guard is very quick and simple. That alone will cause me to be safer because I'll leave the guard on more of the time. The reason I took the guard off my old Craftsman was because it was such a pain to take off and put back on. If it wasn't adjusted perfectly wood would get caught on it which was more dangerous than using the saw without it. I aslo noticed that the teeth on the saw blade that had past the brake were fully intact with no marks on them. The brake stops the saw that fast.

BTW -- I'm not wealthy by any measure either. I'm a school teacher.:eek: But, I felt that the SawStop was the best table saw (other that perhaps a slider) and certainly the safest so I bought one. Will I be less careful? Absolutely not!

[Hank Knight]

Of the tablesaw accidents I am familiar with, most happened to responsible, careful people, not wild-eyed nuts that ignore the obvious dangers. In most cases hands or fingers were drawn into the blade by an unexpected, usually violent, movement of the work - often a kickback -and the injury happens so fast it's breathtaking.

I have been using a table saw for 50 years and have not had a single serious accident - yet. I am a serious hobbyest and I consider myself a careful, conscientious worker. But I've come to believe accidents are almost inevitable if one uses these saws long enough, no matter how careful you are. Yes, I know I'm Chicken Little, but the truth of the matter is that the older I get, the more respect - or fear - I have for my tablesaw. That is why I'm seriously considering swapping my Unisaw for a Sawstop. In my book, it's almost a no-brainer. The technology works, I've seen it. And, as many others have said, the saw is a top-notch piece of machinery - makes you proud to say it's Made in the USA. The cost to me of trading up to a Sawstop doesn't compare with value I place on my hands. I want to keep them intact for the duration.

Hank

[James Phillips]

The one thing I do not understand is why the people that do not own one hate them so much. I will never force any of you to come use mine, but I love it and to me it was worth every dime. I am a spend thrift by nature and I have never even given a second thought to what I spent for it....

[Mark Singer]

I have had a few nice cabinet saws before my SawStop....Powermatic 66 , delta and I have used many others over the years. The SawStop is the best that i have had. Very accurate and safe....the stop action really works. I make a lot of pieces and I like quality work.....this saw is better than I expected and the SawStop staff are wonderful people!

[Lane Mabbett]

Its the human condition to become complacent and therefor less careful when the risk is removed. It cannot be avoided and its a 100% guarantee. Now a $5000 pushstick, that is something to see.
Id give the HoooTayyy sign ceptin Im missing my thumb and index finger.....on both hands.

There's no absolute guarantee that the safety mechanism is going to fire as designed, so you're never any less vigilant than if you were using your table saw.

[Ken Milhinch]

The one thing I do not understand is why the people that do not own one hate them so much. I will never force any of you to come use mine, but I love it and to me it was worth every dime. I am a spend thrift by nature and I have never even given a second thought to what I spent for it....

James, I don't think we hate them, its just the evangelical attitude of some of the sawstop owners, who seem hell bent on converting us all. I don't even have access to one in my country, yet I dislike the brand already.:rolleyes:
I also find the arguments disingenuous when they start talking about the sawstop having a riving knife, as if no other saw has one. I would point to the PM2000, and on the PM you get to use the blade guard and the riving knife at the same time, which you can't do on a sawstop.
No doubt it is a very good saw, but plenty of other saws have flat tables and cut wood accurately.

[Kevin Scott]

I have limited space in my shop and finances are also a bit limited right now. I am planning on buying the contractor model Sawstop later this year when they are released. Until that time, I won't be using my Craftsman tablesaw. I experienced some nasty kickback a few months ago that really scared me. I have decided that using the saw isn't worth the risk and am using my bandsaw and/or other tools to currently fulfill my needs.

[David Giles]

Who buys Sawstops?
- people with excess cash. Thriving professionals or hobbiest with good jobs.
- WW who are learning. Many don't have mentors, instructors or any guidance as to what is safe or not.
- People with jobs that really need their fingers or they lose their incomes.
- People who saw in the evenings when they are tired after a full day of work.
- Shops and schools that have liability for others. Parents and grandparents included.

Who doesn't buy a Sawstop?
- folks on a tighter budget.
- WW with 5 years of experience and safe work habits.
- people who are confident that accidents will never happen to them.
- people with European sliders, automatic feeders or other high end safety equipment.

I've probably missed a couple of categories.

[Glen Blanchard]

Its the human condition to become complacent and therefor less careful when the risk is removed.

Hogwash, I say!!! I wonder if the opposite might be true in the case of the SawStop. That is to say, that perhaps those who have paid a premium for a safety feature in recognition of just how dangerous a table saw is, are actually more likely to remain diligent so as to never to test its efficiency.

[Ken Milhinch]

Hogwash, I say!!! I wonder if the opposite might be true in the case of the SawStop. That is to say, that perhaps those who have paid a premium for a safety feature in recognition of just how dangerous a table saw is, are actually more likely to remain diligent so as to never to test its efficiency.

Judging by the number of people who sawstop claim (on their website) to have saved their digits, I doubt that is true either. Probably neither argument really holds water.

[Ken Milhinch]

shouldnt one just test it with a hotdog before each use?

:D :D :D :D

[Matt Lentzner]

shouldnt one just test it with a hotdog before each use?

Isn't the blade wrecked when the stop is engaged?

[Don Bullock]

Spencer, with all due respect, that argument is getting very old. If you don't like the SawStop then I'd suggest that you not buy one, but avoiding one just because you think that a push stick will make someone more careful and safe is ridicules. There isn't a 100% garuntee on anything being safer or less safe.

[Matt Lentzner]

Spencer was just taking the ----.;)

OK, I get the joke now, but there is a valid concern beneath it all. How do you know the mechanism is working? The one demo I saw stated that both the stop mechanism and the blade have to be replaced when the feature is enabled.

I am in general favorably inclined to safety features in general and the SwStop in particular. The big issue for me is whether it will work 5, 10, 20 years from now, and that you know if it doesn't. Possibly there is a positive test you can run that lets you know it is working without the attendant mechanical carnage.

Admittedly, I don't know that much about it, but I am interested for sure. $1000 is pretty cheap insurance for something as valuable as your fingers, but you also need to be 100% sure it's going to work if you ever need it to.

Matt

[Eric Wong]

I am in general favorably inclined to safety features in general and the SwStop in particular. The big issue for me is whether it will work 5, 10, 20 years from now, and that you know if it doesn't. Possibly there is a positive test you can run that lets you know it is working without the attendant mechanical carnage.

Matt

The saw has test circuitry built into it. You have to turn the saw on, let it run through its tests, then you can turn on the actual blade and start cutting. Of course, its always possible that the test could give you a false OK, but it seems unlikely. Who knows about 20 years from now....

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hey guys......You are starting to drift from the subject of the thread....Who's buying all these Sawstops.......

I don't own a Sawstop........I've got no axe to grind......

If you think you're safer with a Sawstop buy one......

If you don't want one....don't

This thread is about Who is buying them.......

[Andrew Williams]

I am going to buy one. My woodworking has gradually turned into more than a hobby for me and my gut has told me to buy one. I always go with my gut.

Personally, I don't care very much for some of the remarks that have been made over time against the Sawstop, and people who choose it. As if wanting an extra measure of safety were something to be embarassed about. On the contrary, it is something to be proud of in my opinion. I was the recipient of a finger injury due to an accident far from any woodshop, and my career was nearly terminated as a result. I have been fortunate that the nature of the injury (and the subsequent operation and recovery) made it possible to continue my successful career as a musician, albeit with a few changes in technique. I will be reminded of that day for the rest of my life. Every time I write, try to open a bag of chips, feel around for something that fell under a table. Even the simple act of holding hands with a woman is different now, and even occasionally painful.

Sawstop does not guarantee against injury. If it did, I would seriously re-consider, since I do not believe that any intelligent and thoughtful maker of a tool designed to cut wood could possibly make such a guarantee. What is does is add a measure of protection. You use all of the different measures of protection you have. Your brain obviously, guards, jigs, and perhaps a decision to use a different tool for a specific job. The brake system gives you better odds if something goes wrong. Something went wrong for me several years ago. It was my own fault for not paying attention, and there would not have been (and could not be) an option like a Sawstop for the nature of my accident.

My point is that, since I am a careful person, I acknowledge that I am not perfect and try to do everything I can to limit risks. That means that every time I climb on my tractor with the ROPS up, I put on my seat belt. Even if I am not going to drive the tractor a long distance, or over rough terrain. I just do it. Many people choose to ignore this and drive ROPS tractors without a seat belt (an action which actually increases your chance of injury since now the roll bar becomes a person-crusher). That is their choice. I care not one little drop for machismo or any of that sort of thing. What I do care about is quality of life, and that means doing what I can to ensure that I have complete use of my body for as long as possible.

[Rick Moyer]

I have a question and it is only a question for information purposes only; not to condemn or condone one way or the other:

IF you stop the saw by your finger,hotdog,etc. and the blade stops,retracts,...
How does it reset? Do you have to purchase,reset,fix something? Or do you just crank it back up into position and restart the saw?
The demontration videos don't seem to address this.

Thanks for the info.

[Joe Chritz]

It is interesting to say the least.

Anyone remember when anti-lock brakes started to become popular and regularly available? I have had several (maybe a dozen or so) performance driving classes and to start with everyone hated anti-locks. Now you can't even find regular production cars without them.

As for the Sawstop, the decision is, as always, yours and yours alone. The information you will find here that is useful will be on the quality of the machine itself. Universally it appears to be a quality built machine, as good and any other cabinet saw.

From there it is up to you. I do expect to see more and more of them in applications where liability is a driving factor. Time will tell.

Joe

[Andrew Williams]

A high-pressure spring fires a large aluminum pawl into the sawblade teeth. The teeth bind into the pawl. The rotation is stopped instantly, and the momentum from the rotation is used to forcefully shoot the blade under the table surface, since the arbor is released at the exact same time.

It destroys both the blade and the brake cartridge. You would need to put on a new blade and cartridge.






I have a question and it is only a question for information purposes only; not to condemn or condone one way or the other:

IF you stop the saw by your finger,hotdog,etc. and the blade stops,retracts,...
How does it reset? Do you have to purchase,reset,fix something? Or do you just crank it back up into position and restart the saw?
The demontration videos don't seem to address this.

Thanks for the info.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have a question and it is only a question for information purposes only; not to condemn or condone one way or the other:

IF you stop the saw by your finger,hotdog,etc. and the blade stops,retracts,...
How does it reset? Do you have to purchase,reset,fix something? Or do you just crank it back up into position and restart the saw?
The demontration videos don't seem to address this.

Thanks for the info.


Rick,

The Sawstop uses a brake cartridge with basically a pawl on it made of aluminum IIRC. An electrical circuit senses contact with the blade and the spring load pawl is released and engages the blade. The cartridge and the blade are thus ruined and must be replaced.

If you do a search on Sawstop using Google or Yahoo I'm sure you'll find their site and videos demonstrating same.

[Ken Milhinch]

I have a question and it is only a question for information purposes only; not to condemn or condone one way or the other:

IF you stop the saw by your finger,hotdog,etc. and the blade stops,retracts,...
How does it reset? Do you have to purchase,reset,fix something? Or do you just crank it back up into position and restart the saw?
The demontration videos don't seem to address this.

Thanks for the info.

Rick, As I understand it, you will need to buy a new blade, and a new sawstop cartridge. Changing both is fairly straight forward.

[Mark Singer]

In reading some of the posts I get the idea that I must have bought the SawStop because I was a begining woodworker.....probably that is true of Per also.....if we just had more experience we could have saved one heck of a lot of money:confused:

I don't think SawStop is for every woodworker....it seems like it is only for the people interested in safety , accuracy, and quality...there are plenty of products for all different needs...sometimes you get what you pay for....sometimes you save a bit of money initially.... and pay latter at the hospital and everytime you want to shake hands....I have plenty of experienced woodworking friends that give me the left shake they don't have much to shake on the other side......some guys are smart now and latter say ...I should'a.....:rolleyes:

Sorry too late....you saved some money though:rolleyes:

[Chris McDowell]

I have watched this thread with great interest. As with all things new there will always be strong opinions. I use my saw everyday with my splitter and my guard. I guarantee I can use it just as safely or well as anyone posting here. But how many times does it take for a life altering accident to occur?
If you have an accident are you being unsafe or even negilgent? Probably, that's why they call them accidents. Not intentional, but not real smart either,that is the way most accidents could be described. We have all had close calls and I hope everyone stays safe and smart, but it's nice to know there is a product out there that could save my hand on that one occasion where I do something in a hurry or incorrectly.
Mark or Per, how well does your sawstop seem to be holding up? I'm a one man shop and I have really been thinking about a slider, but the safety of the sawstop has a lot of appeal. Especially for a one man cabinetshop that cannot afford to loose one of it's most valuable tool, my hands.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Call me stupid...........

I just don't see why this dead horse has to be beaten beyond recognition so often.....It's like a regularly scheduled program here......

Sawstop obviously has some safety features that are a true boon!

If woodworkers like Per and Mark Singer say it's good quality then it's of GOOD Quality!

But this constant badgering of those who like it and those who don't or won't is of no use. I have yet seen this heated discussion change anybody's mind. It's not like you walk up and tread so close to insulting someone's opinion or their intelligence or their woodworking skills and they jump up like they've been struck by lightning and say "I see the light.....I'm going to trot right out and buy one".....or.........."I see the light........I'm going to sell this thing tomorrow"............It isn't going to happen.

This thread started out by someone asking who was buying them......and the comments here have gone way too far from the subject......

Enough already.....If you like it....You can afford it......you think it's for you....Buy it! .......But regardless of which camp you belong to.....let's go make some sawdust with what ever saw you have...........

[Mark Singer]

I have watched this thread with great interest. As with all things new there will always be strong opinions. I use my saw everyday with my splitter and my guard. I guarantee I can use it just as safely or well as anyone posting here. But how many times does it take for a life altering accident to occur?
If you have an accident are you being unsafe or even negilgent? Probably, that's why they call them accidents. Not intentional, but not real smart either,that is the way most accidents could be described. We have all had close calls and I hope everyone stays safe and smart, but it's nice to know there is a product out there that could save my hand on that one occasion where I do something in a hurry or incorrectly.
Mark or Per, how well does your sawstop seem to be holding up? I'm a one man shop and I have really been thinking about a slider, but the safety of the sawstop has a lot of appeal. Especially for a one man cabinetshop that cannot afford to loose one of it's most valuable tool, my hands.

Chris,
Per has had his SawStop a lot longer than I have had mine and he moves a lot more wood thru it than I do..... I use mine as much as most furniture makers , I would say. It seems very consistent and rock solid. It is the most acurate saw I have used. I have never owned a slider...I heve used a few of them. For sheet goods and modular cabinets they are the way to go. I like the dialog the cabinet saw to the work piece for furniture making. With a full shop and lots of handtools, I can always do a decent job on joinery. A lot of that is done right at the SawStop , if you have noticed from my posts. My bandsaw is a major player in the shop as well. On large scale pieces the bandsaw is very important. As far as I ma concerned I can rip and size faster at a cabinet saw then a slider. Everyone is different an I may be stuck in old techniques i learned too long ago to change now. So if its a cabinet saw, I would get a SawStop....if its a slider...:confused:

[John Schreiber]

Who doesn't buy a Sawstop?
- people who are confident that accidents will never happen to them.

I try to give anybody who is confident that accidents won't happen to them a wide berth. I don't like to see blood.

(I tried to stay out of this thread. I did, I really did.)

[Chris McDowell]

Thanks Mark. I'm not trying to hijack a thread or start another debate on the value of a slider. No matter what I end up getting I'll still have to make cuts that put my hands fairly close to the blade. I sure like a lot of things about a slider, but I like all my fingers even better.

[Ken Milhinch]

In reading some of the posts I get the idea that I must have bought the SawStop because I was a begining woodworker.....probably that is true of Per also.....if we just had more experience we could have saved one heck of a lot of money:confused:

I don't think SawStop is for every woodworker....it seems like it is only for the people interested in safety , accuracy, and quality...

Mark, I must take issue with your last statement above. You are suggesting that anyone who doesn't buy a sawstop is not interested in safety ? Further you are saying that sawstop is the only way to get accuracy & quality ? That is demonstrably incorrect.

Having got that off my chest, my namesake of the Fitzgerald variety is on the money with his comments, and I agree no useful purpose is served by the ongoing debate of the pros & cons, so I will add no further fuel to this fire.

[Per Swenson]

Consistently these threads devolve.

Into what, I am really not sure.

Maybe we should consult a sociologists or do a study on group dynamics.

Then we could hire a statistical analyst to explain demographics and

percentage of opinions compared to stated facts.

Sounds like a bunch of nonsense I just wrote, hunh?

Good. See, I stayed on topic.

Thank you Mr. Singer.

Short answer.

So far we have put MILES of product through our saw.

Not a hiccup.

One last thing, Forget the technology for a moment.

The saw is worth the price with out it.

Cult? Religious following? Come on.

Clique maybe. But of course that term is always defined by outsider's:D

Per

[Mike Heidrick]

I really hate what sawstop threads turn into. Pointless to even talk about them on forums. Too bad too - they really are nice saws.

[James Phillips]

I have a question and it is only a question for information purposes only; not to condemn or condone one way or the other:

IF you stop the saw by your finger,hotdog,etc. and the blade stops,retracts,...
How does it reset? Do you have to purchase,reset,fix something? Or do you just crank it back up into position and restart the saw?
The demontration videos don't seem to address this.

Thanks for the info.

If you have the extra brake already, you just plug it in, lower the arbor all the way down and raise it again. I think that is the entire reset procedure, but luckily I have never had to try with mine.

[Mark Singer]

Mark, I must take issue with your last statement above. You are suggesting that anyone who doesn't buy a sawstop is not interested in safety ? Further you are saying that sawstop is the only way to get accuracy & quality ? That is demonstrably incorrect.

Having got that off my chest, my namesake of the Fitzgerald variety is on the money with his comments, and I agree no useful purpose is served by the ongoing debate of the pros & cons, so I will add no further fuel to this fire.


I am sorry your correct and actually I was a bit tounge and cheek with the comment:rolleyes: I was interested in safety, accuracy and quality when I had my Powermatic and it was a fine saw...accurate and safe at the time. The new technology has raised the bar and just as with cars with air bags verus those with just seat belts...there is safe and there is safer.....I felt safe before....now I feel safer and as far as accuracy goes....Now its me if things are off a little ...I can't blame it on the saw any more:rolleyes:

[Jim Becker]

Folks, I think that folks participating in this discussion need to be careful about the words they use. Any language that in any way implies that someone who feels that the subject tool is "not for them" is someone who cares less about safety or quality or whatever is making a bogus assumption. And those who belittle the technology/cost with satirical or attacking language do the community no favors, either.

Jim
SMC Moderator

The bottom line answer to the OP's question, "Who buys SawStop?" (or any other specific tool, frankly) is, "Anyone who decides that it is the right tool for their own particular needs, desires and situation. Period" Everyone's motivation is their own. For anyone to question or belittle the decision in either direction is just plain wrong.


Jim
SMC Community Member

[Eric Wong]

It destroys both the blade and the brake cartridge. You would need to put on a new blade and cartridge.

Actually, it doesn't destroy the blade. At Woodraft we've done many demos with the saw, and usually all we have to do is send the blade in for a checkup and sharpening. In a couple cases 2 or 3 teeth have had to be replaced too. It really surprised me.

[Eric Wong]

now im wondering why would anyone want to buy one. The thing destroys itself when activated. Wouldnt the biggest pleasure of owning one to be able to show off to your friends how the blade stops when you touch it with a hot dog?

That would be cool....but after buying one I won't have any leftover pocket change for cartridges and blades.:D

[Eric Wong]

I think a hotdog test would be much more accurate and safer. I touch my pushstick with a hotdog before each use just to be sure....and I dont have to replace the pushstick after.

LOL! :D

[Jim Becker]

This thread is now closed to posting as any useful discussion seems to have run its course.

Jim
SMC Moderator