Legacy Mill?

[Allen Bookout]

Has anyone used one of these: http://legacywoodworking.com/productList.cfm?type=1 About the only thing that I could find with a Google search was a good review by benchmark: http://benchmark.20m.com/reviews/Leg...egacymill.html (http://benchmark.20m.com/reviews/LegacyMill/toolslegacymill.html) He seems to think that it is overpriced for what it is but there seems to be no alternative. It also sounds as though customer support may be lacking.

If I ever did decide to get one the 900 would probably be as large as I could go with the space that I have. The only thing bad about the 900 as near as I could tell, other than the cost, is that it only turns one way which would be limiting. I sent a email to them this morning regarding this issue but have not heard back. May be they are closed the day after Easter but we will see if they ever respond.

Do the machines work as advertised? What is the quality? How is customer support? Are there other options?

Allen

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Allen,

Bill Grumbine has one and at least one other preson here at the Creek has one. I've been told that the learning cureve is very steep. Try the search function here. I have seen some very nice work come off of them. They come up on ebay from time to time as well. They should have a referal program that you can go see one close to you.

I would research it well and look for a used one before i took the big jump. You might find a prictically new machine with accessories for the cost of the more basic machine.

[Chris McDowell]

Allen I have owned an ornamental mill for several years. They are well built and extremely versatile. There are long periods where I don't even touch it, but when I need it nothing else I have seen can do all the things it does.
The learning curve is a little steep but I find that to be the case on most anything worthwhile. I have never had any problems with customer service, but I will agree the machine is high priced. The main reason I got one was for the turning ability it would give me. Truth be told it is an under utilized tool in my shop. That is my fault not theirs. If I can be of further help, just let me know.

[Allen Bookout]

Thanks Charles! I had done the Search Forums but did not find much. This time I tried the Google SawMillCreek search and found quite a bit.

Good to know info Chris. I might take you up on your offer.

[John Miliunas]

Thanks Charles! I had done the Search Forums but did not find much. This time I tried the Google SawMillCreek search and found quite a bit.

Good to know info Chris. I might take you up on your offer.

Allen, drop Dave Richards a PM. I'll bet he can get you your "fill" of info on the Legacy! Dave is very detail and technically oriented and bet he can give you a ton of info on it. If not, he'll know exactly where to go for additional info! :) :cool:

[Allen Bookout]

Thanks John. Actually Dave Richards was nice enough that he sent me a private message offering his assistance and some real good information.

[John Miliunas]

Thanks John. Actually Dave Richards was nice enough that he sent me a private message offering his assistance and some real good information.

Yup, that sure does sound like the Dave Richards I know!!! :) :cool:

[Dave Bureau]

i've got a 1200 that i bought about 5 months ago. I like the machine alot and found that the assembly manual was the best manual that i have ever seen. you will need to practice to get the hang of it but it is not difficult.
The bits will add up fast and should be in the budget.
Dave

[Jim Becker]

I have not used one, but have seen it used a number of times. Quite impressive, but there is abit of setup work.

[Allen Bookout]

The bits will add up fast and should be in the budget.
Dave

I am trying to not think about that part but I figured as much.


I have not used one, but have seen it used a number of times. Quite impressive, but there is abit of setup work.

Thanks Jim, The more input I receive about this subject the better I will feel about my final decision, whatever it is.

[Jim Becker]

Allen, the thing about the Legacy is that it is a specialty tool. If you have the work to feed it, than it can be a valuable addition to a small shop that needs to do what it can do in-house. It's certainly priced lower than high-end solutions since it leverages commodity router technology, yet is still pretty versatile.

[Randall Frey]

I bought one years ago, it was an entry level machine I believe it was a model 600 (model only offered for a brief time). Their customer service was very good. I too find this is an under utilized tool in my shop but has enabled me to turn some pieces with good results. Consider a model that allows you to do a tapered piece as mine does not.

[Allen Bookout]

Hi Randall, The 900 does allow tapers but it only spirals one direction, from what I could tell, which would eliminate some really neat designs I think. I do not know if there is an upgrade or not. I sent them an email on the subject yesterday morning but have not received a response. The larger models just take up too much workspace for my working area at this time.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have seen 'em and do not like 'em.
Well I do like 'em in so much as they do some things rather well, but they look a tad delicate and unless Iam are going to be using it a lot I'd lose a lot of space to a dust collector that only does one sort of thing well.

I'd prefer to do those few (very very few) jobs that might draw me to such a specialized machine by some other means. Usually with a way more labor intensive effort with results not nearly so precise.

And of course if I really wanted one, for $1,325.00 I could probably make one myself using gears, bearings, and drive chains and threaded shafts from MSC supply, mount the whole mess on some MDF or Baltic Birch and possibly even have a heavier unit when done.

Just look at the picture, and you wilkl see there is no great sophisticated mechanical complexities going on. It's all just ratios. You could accomplish the same thing with sprung drive chains & cogs, or timing belts.

YA could probably buy a machine tool lathe head stock from a junkyard off a broken lathe and build one from that.

When you break one of those machines down they are nothing more than a limited purpose head stock very similar to that found on a conventional metal lathe. A lot less sophisticated and less heavy but very simnilar.

I'll bet the head stock from a Clausing Colchester (the crappiest of lathes just above an EMCO) with open changeable straight gears would be the best to use to do this. Change gears are nice because you can break the rules and make your own ratios.

[Allen Bookout]

And of course if I really wanted one, for $1,325.00 I could probably make one myself using gears, bearings, and drive chains and threaded shafts from MSC supply, mount the whole mess on some MDF or Baltic Birch and possibly even have a heavier unit when done.

Just look at the picture, and you wilkl see there is no great sophisticated mechanical complexities going on. It's all just ratios. You could accomplish the same thing with sprung drive chains & cogs, or timing belts.

YA could probably buy a machine tool lathe head stock from a junkyard off a broken lathe and build one from that.



The $1325 is a bit to swallow I will have to agree. I wish that I had your knowledge and ability to build something like this but if I got it built and it did run it would probably turn at 100 rpm or worse at 6,000 rpm and blow my whole shop up.

One time I built a rototiller to attatch to a small John Deere out of junk yard iron and an old pickup differential. It was so heavy that all it did was lift the front of the tractor off of the ground. I had to run the tractor in reverse to make it work. Does that tell you how good I am at that sort of thing?

[Bruce Page]

One time I built a rototiller to attatch to a small John Deere out of junk yard iron and an old pickup differential. It was so heavy that all it did was lift the front of the tractor off of the ground. I had to run the tractor in reverse to make it work. Does that tell you how good I am at that sort of thing?
Yeah, but I bet the rotor-tiller was bullet proof! :D

[Allen Bookout]

Yeah, but I bet the rotor-tiller was bullet proof! :D

Now that part of the story is true.

[Richard Wolf]

Check out this recent thread;
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=54608

Richard

[Grant Lasson]

Allen,

I've had an Ornamentil Mill for about 5 years. They're a lot of fun. There's a group of very informed users on Google Groups. Buy one or not? They do come up on eBay regularly for drastically reduced prices. Even so, I don't use mine much and I've spent a small fortune to keep it up to date. Legacy will tell you you can use it to do almost anything. That may be true but there are better ways to do most of those things. If you get a big kick out of turning round columns and then fluting or reeding (amongst other things), then by all means get one. If you're thinking about what a cool tool it is and that you could probably use it to do almost anything--then I'd recommend caution. You may buy a tool that sits around a lot and takes up a lot of precious room.

FWIW, I haven't found the actual learning curve to be too steep. Keeping all the idiosyncrasies under control is fairly difficult.

[Allen Bookout]

Thanks for keeping the good information flowing. I really appreciate it. Every bit of information helps. Also thanks for the Google Group heads up. Looks like that there might be some good information there.

Allen

[Mark Hulette]

The $1325 is a bit to swallow I will have to agree. I wish that I had your knowledge and ability to build something like this but if I got it built and it did run it would probably turn at 100 rpm or worse at 6,000 rpm and blow my whole shop up.

One time I built a rototiller to attatch to a small John Deere out of junk yard iron and an old pickup differential. It was so heavy that all it did was lift the front of the tractor off of the ground. I had to run the tractor in reverse to make it work. Does that tell you how good I am at that sort of thing?

Allen-
Check out Router Magic by Bill Hylton. There's a machine in there that sounds as if it might fit Cliff's description. I've wanted to make one myself but don't have the time nor space at this point.

[Dino Drosas]

I have one of these that I purchased at a woodworking show a few years ago. Set up was a breeze and the learning curve wasn't too bad ( of course I did not learn too much). After getting it I set it up, I used it very little and for a short time. I turned several dowell rods and did a practice run on some rope moulding. Turned out great with very little effort. I think it is every bit as good as it is advertised . It is in no way flimsey in its construction. I have the model 1000 which has the excact specs as the 1200 except that its center to center is 5 feet vs 6 feet, and it is 80 inches in length. I used it mounted on two sawhorses as I didn't buy the leg kit; so I keep it standing on end to conserve shop space. Since it is not being used, I have been thinking of selling it but have not done anything towards that end.

[Allen Bookout]

Mark, I looked at the Library and no luck. Then I checked the local bookstore and they did not have it in stock so I just ordered it. It will be interesting to see what the article has to say.

Dino, It is good to hear that some think that it works well. I have received some negative type of responses at some sites. Sorry that you have not been able to use yours more. I could find that the same thing would happen to me.

[lou sansone]

I think if you are doing barley twists, there is really not a better manual tool for the price. I have been interested in them for some time now. if someone knows of an easier way to do barley twists, please chime in. I could rig up my patternmakers lathe to do this, but the pitch is way off for barley twists.

thanks
Lou

[Mark Hulette]

Mark, I looked at the Library and no luck. Then I checked the local bookstore and they did not have it in stock so I just ordered it. It will be interesting to see what the article has to say.


Allen- I highly recommend Router Magic as a whole- that one article is worth the book IMHO. The machine shown there is pretty adaptable but there's a little bit of work to it.

Let us know what you decide.

[John Fry]

I was recently asked by PM if I liked my Legacy 1200, what I've used it for, what I thought about its pricing, and would I buy it again.

It is easier to just paste my reply.......Here is how I responded;

---------------------------------

I love my Legacy and wish I could get more use out of it. I keep trying to sell some "twisty" things to my clients. :D

It is made of extruded aluminum and probably overpriced for what it is physically, but I am a firm believer that someone who took the time to design and build the machine, probably went through thousands of hours of trial and error, before coming up with a marketable tool. Therefore, I am willing to pay for that, and I feel the inventors/developers deserve to make a profit as well as recoup their investments in time and tooling. Its real value is in what it is capable of doing (nothing better for rope and barly twists), and what it took to get it there.

You must be aware, that once you get the machine, most of the router bits that can do special things, are "special" bits and not really cheap, so that alone requires additional expense, and there are many attachments that you can keep spending money on.

Having said all that, I have no regrets about buying the mill, and it is worth every penny of it to me and my shop.

It is a "tinkerer's tool", meaning that the more you play with it the more you learn and the more you can do with it.

Did you see the sofa table I made with the Barley twist legs? Here is a picture and there is a lot more detail on my website about this piece.



http://www.chiselandbit.com/sofatable/sofatable1.jpg

HTH

--------------------------------
HTH

[Allen Bookout]

I could rig up my patternmakers lathe to do this, but the pitch is way off for barley twists.

thanks
Lou

It seems to me that is one of the advantages of the Legacy. The correct pitches have already been figured and geared for according to what you want to do. It would be very difficult, for me, to try to duplicate what this tool can do in that respect.


Allen- I highly recommend Router Magic as a whole- that one article is worth the book IMHO. The machine shown there is pretty adaptable but there's a little bit of work to it.

Let us know what you decide.

Still waiting for the book Mark. It should be here next week, I hope.

---------------------------------


I love my Legacy and wish I could get more use out of it. I keep trying to sell some "twisty" things to my clients. :D

It is made of extruded aluminum and probably overpriced for what it is physically, but I am a firm believer that someone who took the time to design and build the machine, probably went through thousands of hours of trial and error, before coming up with a marketable tool. Therefore, I am willing to pay for that, and I feel the inventors/developers deserve to make a profit as well as recoup their investments in time and tooling. Its real value is in what it is capable of doing (nothing better for rope and barly twists), and what it took to get it there.



I made a visit to your site John and you do beautiful work.

I agree that the developers deserve a profit for their effort. I have to decide whether or not the cost warrents a purchase for what I want to do with it. I do like that it is made in the USA. Not much of that left. The really interesting thing is how the customer support reports vary. Some say that it is good and others say that it is horrible and even worse than that. The really bad ones I cannot quote here. The bad ones outnumber the good ones by quite a bit from what I have found.

I see some preowned ones from time to time and it is difficult to sort it all out as it is difficult to know form year to year and model to model what is what, such as bearings vs sleves for instance. It makes pricing difficult for a non expert. I have been going throught the Google Groups post by post trying to increase my knowledge on the subject. It is slow going. I hesitate to contact Legacy on this subject as a lot of reports say that they are only interested in selling new machines so some of the information might not be correct.

In any case I am watching this thread trying to learn more.

Thanks! Allen