Vista vs XP, Computer stuff

[Jim Shaver, Oakville Ont]

Help!

I have been working through the demise of my first computer at home. 5 Years after we bought our Dell Dimension 4400 it's basically developed enough faults and problems that I need to replace it. I am not at all a computer "smart person" other than using one daily.

I have all my files backed up on an external 320 Gb hard drive. I was on www.Dell.ca last night and I see all the PC's now come with an OS called Vista. I have "heard" that it's a troublesome OS compared to XP, but of course that is second hand information.

Do any of you have experience with both XP and Vista, what would you tell me to do if I was looking to buy a new desk top such as a Dell "like" PC that came with Vista?

Thanks in adavance for your advice,

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim...........My Dell 4550 was giving me fits but I seemed to have breathed life back into it. But until last weekend I was researching the same thing at the same Dell site.

From what I've been able to glean, Vista is just a upgraded version of XP with better security options and IE7. I"ve heard rumors of problems but if the infomation I read was correct, it really shouldn't be a problem. I've been running XP Pro for nearly 5 years and have been quite happy with it.

[Jim Becker]

Ken, Vista is a whole new operating system, but does bring a lot of things forward from XP. The largest universal issue with Vista at present is drivers for older accessories, like printers and scanners.

One thing...Vista likes lots of memory. 1mb minimum, but the more the better.

[Steve knight]

Tried it on my new laptop and it slowed down a bit. 1 gig is not really enough.
Myself I would not put it on a computer that was not designed to run it. Even though Sony had all the drivers for it some would not install. I tired installing it from xp and it took 3.5 hours. All the Sony drivers and software had to be un installed fist and that included several reboots. Then when it was up and running the cpu was pegged at 100% the whole time.
So I decided to do a fresh install. I had to install xp since the disc I got would not boot. After xp it only took 45 minutes to install on a pretty much fresh system. But it took 6 hours to install all the Sony software and that was doing it automatically.
Installing stuff is slower then xp and deleting is too till it gets going. Though most things give you a time for it to happen. I like how it looks and the details like the gadget bar and such. One simple thing I really liked was when you changed a file name it did not highlight the .** part so you could do it faster.
But I could never get my built in card reader to work or the fingerprint scanner to work right. So for now I went back to xp. It only took an hour to install all the Sony apps when I redid the system.

[Dennis Peacock]

My copy of Vista hasn't arrived from Dell just yet. I know a few folks that are running Vista and they really like it a lot. I've heard both good and bad about Vista....but I guess I'll find out myself in the next few months. I'm just not overly anxious to do away with XP Pro any time in the immediate future. Maybe I'll wait for SP1 or SP2 of Vista before I upgrade.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Be careful if you run critical software on a daily basis. I use Fed Ex's Ship Manager. Fed Ex's stand-alone software will not run on a Vista machine - yet, per Fed Ex.

The Fed EX internet based ship utility will run because it runs inside a browser.

I think most computer makers will build with XP so you can load Vista when it's safe to do so.

[Dennis Peacock]

Be careful if you run critical software on a daily basis. I use Fed Ex's Ship Manager. Fed Ex's stand-alone software will not run on a Vista machine - yet, per Fed Ex.

The Fed EX internet based ship utility will run because it runs inside a browser.

I think most computer makers will build with XP so you can load Vista when it's safe to do so.

Kinda makes one wonder what "else" won't run with Vista, doesn't it? :confused:

[Jason Roehl]

Jim (Becker), I think you mean "1GB" minimum...it's been a long time since Windoze ran on 1MB...but I know you knew that. ;)

Personally, I'm always leery of new OSs from MS. I got Win95 and WinME when they first came out (came with the computers I bought). Those of you "in the know" understand my trepidation with new offerings from MS, then. Jim (Shaver), if you can hold off a year, you'd probably be in much better shape. Otherwise, it does have some cool-looking features.

[Steve knight]

vista is nice it has some nice features. but most of that is skin deep. some things it simplifies some it adds layers. if you hit crtl alt delete it pops up with a chouce of reboothing and a few other things or the task manager. you can shut downxp with start button u then r or u to shutdown. with vista you have to hit enter after that.

[Jim DeLaney]

Somebody told me that you can still ask Dell to configure your new machine with XP if that's what you prefer. She said they didn't charge extra for the service, either.

Of course, if she wants to convert to Vista later, I'm sure they'll charge for that...

[Jim Shaver, Oakville Ont]

Thanks every one,

I think tomorrow I will call Dell and get some more information......changing over to a new PC is such a pain #@#@!@%@$^#%!:eek:

Thanks again every one I appreciate your advice and insights.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim..........a site you might want to go to and read the reviews of computers and software and VISTA...is www.cnet.com (http://www.cnet.com)

[John Schreiber]

Does anybody know when the first service pack will come out for Vista? We have to buy a laptop before next fall and I'd prefer to have it earlier, but if we can wait until they've worked some more bugs out of it, we'd rather.

[Bill Lewis]

One thing...Vista likes lots of memory. 1mb minimum, but the more the better.Probably should have been, 1 GB, not 1 mb. OTOH, what is the useful limit for memory, or is there one?

[Rob Russell]

I know our laptop, which is just 3 years old, isn't certified to run Vista. I suspect it's something to do with device drivers not being available from HP.

From a memory perspective, I upgraded to 1GB a while ago and that made a huge difference in how that machine ran. Given all that I've read about Vista's being a memory hog, I wouldn't even try to run Vista without 2GB of memory. It wouldn't surprise me if that's maxing out what our motherboard can support, but it also looks like that won't be an issue.

I've been slow to adopt new versions of operating systems after getting a PC with Windows/ME on it and having that be a pain in the neck to run.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Some of the articles I read on Vista recommended 2GB of memory for it to run well. I can tell from personal and professional experience, there is no such thing as TOO MUCH MEMORY.

I'm sure Microsoft will continue to support XP for a few more years.

[skip coyne]

my understanding is Microsoft licensees are backward compatible so You can get vista , load xp and go back to vista in the future when the bugs are worked out .

on the dell site they offer you the choice of vista or XP

[Al Willits]

General consensus amoung the comp geeks I know is to wait till at least SP1 comes out, many are just staying with XP till the the bugs are worked out and XP is no longer supported, they generally say the XP operating system is doing well...considering.

Maybe get comp set up with XP and vista friendly for later.

Al who's waiting as long as he can.

[Bill Lewis]

I can tell from personal and professional experience, there is no such thing as TOO MUCH MEMORY.That's not entirely true. IIRC Win2K had a limit of 2 Gb that it could function with. Beyond that and you were waisting money on memory it couldn't use. So are there any memory limitations for wither XP, or Vista? I wouldn't be surprised if there were, anyone know for sure?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

That's not entirely true. IIRC Win2K had a limit of 2 Gb that it could function with. Beyond that and you were waisting money on memory it couldn't use. So are there any memory limitations for wither XP, or Vista? I wouldn't be surprised if there were, anyone know for sure?

BIll...I meant within the limitations of the hardware and software!:)

[Al Willits]

I could use a bit more memory....


Al.....sorry....:)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Do not buy Dell or any other brand name unless it's a notebook or laptop you want. Then buy the best you can get like ASUS.

Brand name computers (excepting MACs) are built by purchasing agents who will kill to get a component part for $0.05 less.

This means the machines are just chock a block full of false calls, over stacks and under flows you name it the poor techie guys have to figure out how to get all those badly matched parts to work together - and the parts really don't want to work and play well together.

Get an ASUS main board. ASUS will tell you what to get for a processor and memory. I prefer AMD processors and Samsung memory.

I like Promise controller cards but unless you are running more than two hard drives you don't need one.
Unless you are a gamer get the chealpest Video crd on the market.

Internet can be had for a $15.00 Lan card.

I like Western Digital hard drives and Plextor CDs and DVDs.

I like LaCie moniters because they are cheaper than Sony and are top of the line Sony guts and tube with a LaCie shell.

You can buy everything (but LaCie moniters) from Zip Zoom Fly (www.zipzoomfly.com) at probably the best prices available.

The parts simply plug in together no rocket science or teckie gruru knowledge. If you can plug in a lamp you already have all the skills necessary to build the world's best personal computer. No I'm not kidding.

And it'll be cheaper too.

[Jim Becker]

Unless you are a gamer get the chealpest Video crd on the market.

This one I have to unfortunately disagree about...even the operating systems these days are expecting a video card with some performance and if you don't accomodate it, the machine will slow to a crawl. And with so many folks now doing basic photo editing, color density and reasonable performance is not a luxury. The good news is that a decent 128mb-256mb video card can be had for under a hundred bucks...

And don't even think about using Windows Vista without a video card that's designed to handle it...

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Why does one need or want Vista? Other that it's new, what does it offer over XP?

Perhaps I'm missing something.

I turn on my computer, let it boot up, then launch a browser to access this forum :) . Sometimes I use MS Office stuff, CAD program and tax software. I've done these same things using Windows XP just fine. Heck, I did these things using Windows 98 ten years ago!

I hear folks say it's great, but all I've seen with Vista is the usual blue screen with icons that you click. Is it the fear of overcoming planned obsolescence of your existing hardware and software what makes Vista great, or does it actually do something new?

-Jeff :)

[Jeffrey Makiel]

The good news is that a decent 128mb-256mb video card can be had for under a hundred bucks...

When it comes to using CAD software while working in 3D with shading turned on, a graphics card is very important. Also, high end gaming cards (like Nvidiia GeForce) are only a marginal improvement at best when using CAD. Instead, workstation cards, like Nvidia Quadro, are very important.

One of the leading reasons why my CAD program crashes on my home computer is because of my system's inability to process graphics using the cheap gaming card it has. I like the idea of investing in a better video card than investing in Vista to which I doubt I'll see any tangible improvement.
-Jeff :)

[Jim Becker]

Jeff...you're kinda saying the same thing as I did, but much better given you've delineated the fact that there are video cards that are optimized for certain types of work. Very good point.

Oh, on the Vista thing. I don't disagree, but many folks will be getting it just because that's what's shipping on most new machines at this point unless you're a business or know enough to request it. I'm going to wait a bit, but will likely upgrade at some point (PC is ready) and it will be on whatever I put together for the girls later in the year because it has some very good parental control stuff built in.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

When it comes to using CAD software while working in 3D with shading turned on, a graphics card is very important. Also, high end gaming cards (like Nvidiia GeForce) are only a marginal improvement at best when using CAD. Instead, workstation cards, like Nvidia Quadro, are very important.

One of the leading reasons why my CAD program crashes on my home computer is because of my system's inability to process graphics using the cheap gaming card it has. I like the idea of investing in a better video card than investing in Vista to which I doubt I'll see any tangible improvement.
-Jeff :)


What the devil kind of CAD are you running??
I have Solid Works and Auto Cad running on XP-64-bit and I have the cheapest graphics card I could get. I have no issues at all.

I suspect there is another issue in your PC that makes you need the higher end card. No CAD package I have seen requires much at all by way of video enhancement.

Of course I am running an ASUS A7S333 main board.

[Jim Becker]

'Depends on the complexity of the drawings and renderings, Cliff...the more information that needs to be manipulated (and the methodology used), the more (or less) graphics processing power you need to do it on a timely basis.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Cliff,
Check out AutoDesk website. They have Discussion groups for many topics including hardware. I'm sure Solidworks and Pro-Engineering (Wildfire) have something similar also.

Benefit of a CAD graphics card is realized when using dynamic 3D orbiting (zoom and pan) while using shademode. This is when many machines jamb up and is a common problem. When one sees the 'Fatal Access Error', panic ensue. Workstation video cards handle this problem plus free-up the processor's workload. It's also important to ensure hardware acceleration is turned on to fully utilize the card's capability.

Video cards are now certified by CAD software writers. However, I've read that OpenGL is undergoing changes (or elimination?) with Vista and that gaming cards may also handle CAD programs as efficiently as they handle games. This would drastically reduce the cost of a good CAD video card due to a broader market...at least that's what I've read. I have no experience with the new systems available and am not much of a computer guy.

-Jeff :)

[Al Willits]

""""""""""
This means the machines are just chock a block full of false calls, over stacks and under flows you name it the poor techie guys have to figure out how to get all those badly matched parts to work together - and the parts really don't want to work and play well together.
""""""""

Considering the lenght of Dells warranties and service contracts I rather doubt they use the cheapest parts they can.
Cost is always an issue, even with DIY parts, but Dell has to much to lose but turning out crap.
And also consider that of the 4 mobo's I've installed in my own comps, it was a Asus that lasted only three weeks, btw their service tech admitted it was the board and not anything I'd done.
I think any of the major brands would work fine, you just need to find the board that does what you need.
There are several good brands of boards out there, including Asus.
Al

PS...Jim, sorry got sidetracked, if you can find a comp that has XP and is Vista ready, you'll still be able to get tons of support from the comp forums on XP and you can decide if you want to jump into Vista later, also finding many who are having troubles with explorer 7, might be operator error or?? good luck