On Site Mentoring

[Christopher K. Hartley]

I had written most of this in a response to another post and decided to put it an post by itself.
I do understand exactly what a number, especially newer turners are saying about desiring about honest critique. I remember one thread that talked about this but it did not seem to bring any real resolution. I think sometimes people are hesitant to really critique others work for a few reasons.

They do not want to appear critical of others
Few of us probably feel expert enough to feel we have the right to judge others work when we know we need help too.
We wouldn't want new people coming in for the first time to be afraid to post their work.
We are concerned about individuals feelings being hurt.There are pros and cons but there has to be a place to do what people are asking for and needing. I know because I have felt the same way and stated so on a number of occasions. I have also felt the same reservations to saying things to others for the same reasons stated above. For a lot of us we came here because this was the closest place to doing what we needed. So here is my question:

Mr. Moderator, has any thought been given to a separate thread or area where only those who are asking for this type of critique could post for the purpose of being helped by Mentors that could be elected by the group and who were willing to participate. This area could be for not only turning but flat work as well? If Mentors were elected from among both mediums everyone could benefit from their expertise. They could respond just as we do now but with more direct critique because it would be for that purpose. This new area would not take the place of our current forum but only add to it.

On the off chance that I'm off base, Id like to do a pole of to verify the true need and desire for something like this. Thanks for listening.:) In the pole you may select multiple answers.

[Jeff Moffett]

...has any thought been given to a separate thread or area where only those who are asking for this type of critique could post for the purpose of being helped...
I am a member of a photography site. They have a "Monthly Assignment" forum and a "Critique" forum that are both extremely beneficial. I'd love to see SMC implement similar forums.

As far as mentoring, can I have dibbs on Travis? :D

Note: moderator removed direct link to another public forum - TOS violation.

[Ron Sardo]

To start off, most turners are not well versed in taking good photos. Without a good photo it can be difficult in giving a critique. Photos need to be in focus with no distracting backgrounds. Proper angles and good lighting are all very important part of a good critique

Secondly, a good photo can hide tear out, poor sanding and a bad finish.

Finally, IMO the hardest part, the person receiving the critique needs a thick hide and the person giving the critique needs to be gentle and honest.

I remember when I first started turning, I received a few critical critiques which helped me immensely. Sadly, I've seen online critiques come and go. Usually what happens is someone gets offended and the turmoil begins.

Mentors have a major task ahead of them, but it can be well worth it in my opinion.

[Jim Becker]

Mentoring is good. And if someone asks for critique, anyone willing (and able) should offer it in a clear and considerate manner. If you are a member of WoW, this is something that has worked out very well and is thought provoking.

I'm also going to suggest once again that anyone interested in turning try and hook up with their local turning club (usually AAW (http://www.woodturner.org) affiliated), attend the meetings and get introduced to local experienced folks who are willing to mentor "live"...there are always people willing to do that. And there may be other 'Creekers in your area that can offer the same.

As to a separate area for critique...I don't think that's going to happen. The administration and moderation work load for SMC is already at a peak...even with the recent addition of the inimitable Ken Fitzgerald to the team.

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Keith Outten]

Christopher,

I see no reason why the Members of SMC couldn't elect a panel of Jurors who would be empowered to perform an honest critique based on a preselected list of award points. A new Forum could be created for just this purpose and all work submitted would be evaluated by our panel of Jurors whether it is round or flat.

The hard part is selecting the jurors. As Jim mentioned above our Staff cannot take on the additional workload but there may be others that would be willing to serve. I might warn everyone that the job could turn into a time consuming process that leaves you with very little shop time to work on your own projects.

.

[Jeff Moffett]

As to a separate area for critique...I don't think that's going to happen. The administration and moderation work load for SMC is already at a peak...even with the recent addition of the inimitable Ken Fitzgerald to the team.
Congrats to Ken! He will be a great moderator.

Jim, regarding the moderation workload, the obvious solution to me would be to add more moderators. SMC has over 16,000 members. Certainly, there are others who would be willing to help. Admittedly, I don't know how the workload is divided, so maybe more doesn't solve the problem.

[Cory Martin]

I think it is a wonderful idea. I know in my area the only club I know of is 80 miles away. (I kinda live in the sticks) As a new turner or new to anything other than table legs I find this site extremely helpful. It has given me access to information I otherwise would not have had. And I really want to thank everyone who does come here to look, show, or just talk about turning. I have not finished a piece yet but when I do you can bet I will proudly display it here, as ugly as it will be I'm sure. But that is part of the learning experience and I think for new turners that is what SMC is about.

[George Conklin]

even with the recent addition of the inimitable Ken Fitzgerald to the team.

Jim
SMC Moderator

Insert Tim Allen 'curious grunt' here;

When did I miss this:confused: . Fitz is a mod now? What forum? He didn't consult with me on this;) .

Sorry about the thread hijack.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread:)

btw, Congratulations, Fitz:D .

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Mentoring is good. And if someone asks for critique, anyone willing (and able) should offer it in a clear and considerate manner. If you are a member of WoW, this is something that has worked out very well and is thought provoking.

I'm also going to suggest once again that anyone interested in turning try and hook up with their local turning club (usually AAW (http://www.woodturner.org) affiliated), attend the meetings and get introduced to local experienced folks who are willing to mentor "live"...there are always people willing to do that. And there may be other 'Creekers in your area that can offer the same.

As to a separate area for critique...I don't think that's going to happen. The administration and moderation work load for SMC is already at a peak...even with the recent addition of the inimitable Ken Fitzgerald to the team.

Jim
SMC Moderator

First let me apologize for not having read back an knowing this issue had been addressed before. That is my fault. Jim, thank you for clarifying that before this gets out of hand. Because of your advice and some wisdom that has been given to me just since posting this, I would ask we all avail ourselves of what is currently available to us now.
By no means does this negate the need for the help a number are asking for. It simply means that when we want that type of help we be clear that we are looking for just that, and, then anyone responding will be able to take as much liberty as they need to to help that poster with constructive criticism and encouragement. A good technique to use is what is called the "Sandwich Technique". Start with something good about the work(Praise) then talk about the area for improvement and lastly close with more encouragement. This approach is extremely effective and motivating. I believe by doing this the added burden on the NG can be eliminated and the results can be the same if not greater. If you respond and want to help someone further let them know and we can use the PM process.
Again I ask you to forgive me for crossing the boundary here and I will strive to not let that reoccur Thanks for your understanding.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Chris, I agree with all the reasons you stated that people usually don't offer real critques. I know there are times I post something just to show that I haven't stopped turning. Other times I really would like an honest eval as I am trying out a new design or a new project and could use an assist. Is there some way to request a critique when I post other than just asking for comments / suggestions? A double secret code word or something??

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chris.....Interesting subject and idea. Often when I post something and I want a "real" critique I put in my post I want an honest critique. Frankly, as the nearest turning club is 110 miles away, with my bad back I'm not inclined to drive to an evening meeting and so the critiques I get here are the only ones I get. If I want to improve my form, finish, technique I have to be willing to accept honest criticism and learn from it. This also requires a thick skin on my part. New turners need criticism but more importantly need encouragement. Last year when you folks lathed me, you encouraged my feeble efforts and though my turning skills are not where I want them to be, I've covered a lot ground in just a year. The encouragement I received here definitely gave me the courage and desire to try something new and reach a little farther. In one case, Jim Ketron PMd me and asked if I would mind a critique from him on a NE I did. Jim gave me a solid critique, some suggestions and encouragement. Now if I could just remember to use the information when I have my bowl gouge in my hand!:cool:

As stated.....the person who wants a critique would have to be thickskinned.....the person giving critique would need to be honest with a soft touch and end it with suggestions and encouragement

[Jonathon Spafford]

To start off, most turners are not well versed in taking good photos. Without a good photo it can be difficult in giving a critique. Photos need to be in focus with no distracting backgrounds. Proper angles and good lighting are all very important part of a good critique

Secondly, a good photo can hide tear out, poor sanding and a bad finish.

Finally, IMO the hardest part, the person receiving the critique needs a thick hide and the person giving the critique needs to be gentle and honest.

I remember when I first started turning, I received a few critical critiques which helped me immensely. Sadly, I've seen online critiques come and go. Usually what happens is someone gets offended and the turmoil begins.

Mentors have a major task ahead of them, but it can be well worth it in my opinion.

I think that you are right that sometimes photography skills will hide mistakes... but some of the problems dealing with finish/tearout and such are simply things that are learned the more you turn and are an obvious flaw. Often the real thing that needs critiquing at any skill level is form, as often this is overlooked! That is where I would see the value of a panel of jurors. I think it is a great idea... but don't want to put further stress on our moderators!

[Dennis Peacock]

Chris and Everyone posted so far,

For any of us to advance in the avenue of improving our turning skills isn't with just spending time at the lathe. We also need constructive critiquing of our turnings. In the early stages, we are doing our own critiquing. Many people come here because they can post their turnings and get praises for their turnings. Sometimes all we need is a little boost in our turning ego to help us along the way. I've been there and it's because of the praises I received here, caused me to try even more so to do better and improve my forms, sanding techniques, and finishing techniques to get even more of the "wow factor" on my turnings. This isn't such a bad thing as we all need encouragement from time to time to let us know that we are doing well and improving on our turnings.

Over time, we develop that "thicker skin" via being hungry for open, honest, and considerate critiques on our turnings. I believe that this could be done by the person desiring a critique to "ask for one" and then those that are able, provide the best critique they can with tact and gentleness.

Critiques should be given, in my mind any way, of the basics.....form, finish, style of turning, and make note of any improvements that could be considered on a next turning. With an open critique, we are subjecting ourselves to the "opinions" of many different people with many various tastes in turnings. As long as a critique is given when asked, and we are constructive and tasteful about it, we could all benefit from each critique as we can all learn something from each critique given. We just have to learn to leave our feelings at home and consider each comment made.

As a fellow turner, it's been hard for me in the past to accept negative comments about my turnings, but....I've grown up since then and don't mind them now and I've even gone so far as to begin making myself ready for posting some turnings specifically to get critiques on them to help me "improve". I don't know of a single turner that couldn't use a little more improvement in some shape, form, or fashion.

One thing to remember is that a critique is performed by a person that doesn't really have the overall "artistic picture" in their mind of what we were after in our turning in the first place....so maybe a comment in the post that is requesting a critique should also state what the artist's intent for the turning was so that we could all have an idea about how to best approach the critique requested. After all....a critique is strictly subjective by all those participating.

In summary, I think many here would benefit by asking for critiques on our turnings......and as long as they are honest, helpful, and gentle with each critique given? We can all grow, learn and become better turners from each critique given.

BTW, how many times can one say "critique" in a single post any way? :p :D

[Glenn Clabo]

Well said Dennis....

And....
"BTW, how many times can one say "critique" in a single post any way? :p :D"

I tried to count em...but I kept losing count on account I can't count more ten...with takin my toes into account. ;)

[Jim Becker]

Again I ask you to forgive me for crossing the boundary here and I will strive to not let that reoccur Thanks for your understanding.
No boundry was crossed, Christopher...in any way!

And it appears that Kieth is "game" for a dedicated critique area if there is a mutual decision to do it as well as some warm bodies to step up to the task...

[Stan Cook]

It's a good idea in theory, but unfortunately theory and reality don't always see eye to eye. Most photos don't tell a complete story. And nothing beats a close up inspection of the actual piece.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

It's a good idea in theory, but unfortunately theory and reality don't always see eye to eye. Most photos don't tell a complete story. And nothing beats a close up inspection of the actual piece.Stan, read my comments in the following thread I believe it will explain.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=55680 When the perfect process isn't possible it is time to improvise.:)

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Dennis, very well said. Thank you.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

...And it appears that Kieth is "game" for a dedicated critique area if there is a mutual decision to do it as well as some warm bodies to step up to the task... Thank you, What do you suggest as a next step?

[Keith Burns]

Great idea Christopher !! I voted for it. On another site they have a Critique section and I think it works well. If any of us thinks our craft/art is perfect then why are we here? We can all learn. Even with not so good pictures you can still see enough to offer a critique if requested. Is it always going to be perfect, probably not.

[Neal Addy]

I do feel that honest critique is important to the growth and development of turners at any level. "Attaboys" are great but they don't help us learn. None of us are so skilled that we can't benefit from the honest thoughts, opinions, and suggestions of others.

I'm in favor of some method of soliciting honest critiques but I'm not sure that an appointed panel is necessary. Why limit opinions to a set group of individuals? Ours is a subjective craft (beauty is in the eye) and those who want critique can benefit from the opinions of all.

I would like to see either:

1) a dedicated forum for soliciting critiques, open to all to comment, or
2) allow constructive critiques here in the "Turner's Forum" if the poster specifically asks for them.

[Jim Becker]

Personally, I prefer number two on Neil Addy's list. I know I will always reply favorably for things I like--often with a reason, offer critique if asked if I have something useful to add and avoid comment on things that I'd have to be insincere. I'd just assume do that in the general turning forum.

But for critique to work...folks need to both be willing to ask for it and willing to accept the ensuing honesty. As I mentioned, that's worked out well on WoW (World of Woodturners) and I don't see any reason why it couldn't work well here. The SMC community, in general, is a well mannered and honest assembly. The SMC turning community is even more close-knit and "works" well!

[Bob Hallowell]

I agree totally I know that I have posted my first 2 hollow forms and asked for critiques and did not really recieve any. My nearest tuning club is 1hr away but they meet on the 2nd tuesday of the month and that is the same night as my churh leadership meeting and in my life it is always God first so I don't get to go.
What I did was went Straight to Travis and Jim in a pm and ask for critiques and they did and I got some really good feedback which is what I needed. I think we have some real experts here in different areas I think Most could name alot of them off the top of there head- Travis, Malcom, Jim, Neal, Bill, George, Keith, Mark and the list goes on. A new forum would be great or to make it easier if the words "please critique" apear in the title feel free to copy the picture draw lines show me what I can do better be blunt cause that is what I am after.
But I am just as guilty as the next I don't consider myself An expert in anything turning related but I do think I make some nice pens and have sold alot and several times I had almost posted critiqes on others "mostly peoples first that are to fat or out of proportion" just LIKE MINE WERE on my first pens but never hit the summit button.

Bob

[Christopher Zona]

... For any of us to advance in the avenue of improving our turning skills isn't with just spending time at the lathe. We also need constructive critiquing of our turnings. In the early stages, we are doing our own critiquing. Many people come here because they can post their turnings and get praises for their turnings. ...

... In summary, I think many here would benefit by asking for critiques on our turnings......and as long as they are honest, helpful, and gentle with each critique given? We can all grow, learn and become better turners from each critique given...
As an extension to Dennis' comments, this helped when I first asked for some advice. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=50179 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=50179http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=50179) I got great responses from Misters Ketron and Spafford. They were honest and gentle but helpful and it has helped my thought process and now I produce wonderful shavings.

Now, if I could just make a wonderful bowl!

[Christopher K. Hartley]

If we were to use our current forum what if we had an instructions post that remained in place titled something like:

"Read this First if requesting a project critique" We could then share how the post is to be identified as Steve and Bob and others have alluded to. Next could be expectations for the requester. It could include how they should set the stage for the critiquer with the artist's intent for the turning as Dennis had suggested and lastly, guidelines for the critiquer. If you would like, I'll draft something up and post it for review and editing. The greatest benefits to doing something like this is the accountability it provides and the direction new members need.

Just a side thought. I mentioned earlier the PM approach as some of you have also mentioned. While that is one way of getting help it doesn't allow for everyone to benefit from the advice and directions given. I believe this approach will help us all.:)

[TYLER WOOD]

I absolutely love the idea. I as a beginner turner have a real need for open and honest critique. I recently posted a humidor online and had a few way to go's, but only one critique. Unfortunately it was for something I already wax fixing. I am one who doesn't want a sugar coated attaboy, when in your mind your thinking something totally different.

I think in the forum there does need to be a place of critique. Some people say critique and really want the attaboy, but those who really want to advance need a place where there can be open and honest feedback. Two seperate places, that way when you post in the critique area, you know what you are in for. Good, honest, sincere, and friendly advice. One thing that would have to be in a sticky that I feel necessary would be a word of warning, if you post in this area, you must be ready for open critique. If you want good job, attaboy go to the basic forums. For here in this forum lay good advice that may not be what you are wanting to hear.

I do agree photos can hide a multitude of sin on sanding and finish. But I really believe that if you are wanting open feedback, you will take the best pictures you can of your problem areas and not try to hide them. Even photos can not hide form and function of a piece though. Tear out bad sanding and finish will fix themselves in time and most people can see that on there own. Form advice and functionality is where most people need the help.

Sorry for the long post, but I truly believe there is a need and want for a forum of this type. Where any one and everyone can post advice.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Chris, just posted a compote and asked for critique and realized that we have the option of using an icon next to the title when posting - lightbulb, smiley, question mark, etc. What about establishing an icon that requests a critique? Just a thought.

[Jonathon Spafford]

I would like to see either:

1) a dedicated forum for soliciting critiques, open to all to comment, or
2) allow constructive critiques here in the "Turner's Forum" if the poster specifically asks for them.

Like the others have mentioned, the first one would seem to be the better choice because it would make it much easier to be honest... I have had times where I have thought something about a piece, but said nothing because I didn't know how badly they wanted a critique and because I thought it might just be personal opinion. If someone conciously posts it in a certain place there won't be any doubt that they are open for opinions. I do like the idea that the forum is open for all to post, but I do also like the idea of having a dedicated panel of a couple of jurors so that you get some consistent feedback. Anway... another .02 !

[Bob Hallowell]

Steve,
I do agree, but it needs to be well mark that you want critiques other wise a new person might never sign up or post being afraid we are all arses who critise other poeple's work. So I think in the header we should ask for critiques.

Bob

[Patrick Taylor]

If we were to use our current forum what if we had an instructions post that remained in place titled something like:

"Read this First if requesting a project critique" ...

Great idea. This sets the groundrules for all involved, and allows critiquers to give comments in a context that doesn't make them appear rude or mean.

As a new turner, I often wonder "... but what do they really think?"

[Doug Collins]

I like the idea of a sticky post to inform individuals that if they request a critique, they can expect to receive an honest (though often subjective) opinion from others, offered with the intent of helping them to become better turners. Maybe even advising them to include the term 'critique' in the title.

If they just want to show off their latest turning, the absence of the word 'critique' lets others know that critical comments are not being solicited.

Feel free to critique my suggestion...:)

[Christopher K. Hartley]

I like the idea of a sticky post to inform individuals that if they request a critique, they can expect to receive an honest (though often subjective) opinion from others, offered with the intent of helping them to become better turners. Maybe even advising them to include the term 'critique' in the title.

If they just want to show off their latest turning, the absence of the word 'critique' lets others know that critical comments are not being solicited.

Feel free to critique my suggestion...:)Attached find a DRAFT document for a sticky. Please feel free to suggest edits, changes or replacement as needed. This is just a start point.:) I have supplied two formats so all should be able to read it.

[Doug Collins]

Very well written. I like the clear statements of responsibilities.

[Ed Scolforo]

Chris, I like your proposal. Well written.
Ed

[Steve Schlumpf]

Chris, read your proposal last night and thought about it a lot since then. Not taking the easy way out - but I can't think of anything I would change. Everything is out in the open as to who is responsible for what - what more could you ask?

So, do we take a vote or what?

[Glenn Hodges]

I would never say anything negative about a picture someone posts of their work on the Creek. If they ask for a critique I would state the positive, and then show suggestions to improve it. This is what I would like when I ask for an opinion or critique of my work from the members. I tend to get set in my ways out here on the farm in South Georgia, and need others to point out my mistakes or ways to improve. This is why I ask for your critiques when I post a picture. It is difficult to see the true picture of the work from some of the photos, and this could pose a problem for a honest opinion of someone's work. Another hint about how others feel about someone's work is when very few respond to a picture posted. Remember, "If you can't say anything nice it is better to not say anything at all"? The Creek is known as being helpful and friendly. This atmosphere should never be destroyed.

[Patrick Taylor]

Attached find a DRAFT document for a sticky. Please feel free to suggest edits, changes or replacement as needed. This is just a start point.:) I have supplied two formats so all should be able to read it.

I like it. Thanks for spending the time on this. I think it will prove valuable for everyone!

[Pete Jordan]

Chris,

I really like the positive direction you are taking with this. With the talent and helpfulness in this forum, I feel this could really have a wonderful impact on many turners work. I look forward to the help and if I ever get to the stage of helping someone else.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

I would never say anything negative about a picture someone posts of their work on the Creek. If they ask for a critique I would state the positive, and then show suggestions to improve it. This is what I would like when I ask for an opinion or critique of my work from the members. I tend to get set in my ways out here on the farm in South Georgia, and need others to point out my mistakes or ways to improve. This is why I ask for your critiques when I post a picture. It is difficult to see the true picture of the work from some of the photos, and this could pose a problem for a honest opinion of someone's work. Another hint about how others feel about someone's work is when very few respond to a picture posted. Remember, "If you can't say anything nice it is better to not say anything at all"? The Creek is known as being helpful and friendly. This atmosphere should never be destroyed.I had to chuckle a bit when you shared some of the old sayings and ideals I too was raised with. It brought back some fond memories, thanks. What you say about negative things being said is so true! When critiquing ones work there should only be areas of opportunity or areas for improvement. This is just what you said you would like when you ask for a critique, if I read your wording correctly. With photographs, if you would please re-look at this post: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=55680 Click on Adam's photographs and see how clear and close they are. With this type of photo, unlike display photos, a very reasonable conclusion can easily be drawn about the work and any needs it may have. Now, on the last point, like you I have experienced the times when nobody or few respond to my work or a paticular post. It is a terrible feeling and I never presume it is due to poor work. If my work is really that bad please don't let me keep embarrassing myself without knowing it. I remember one time in particular when I had shown something asked for help and got very little response. I was feeling pretty down for days until I went to a certain well known club site where some bowls were on display. After seeing them I went home feeling pretty good about mine. Actually not pretty good...DARN GOOD!! But why would I want to be responsible for making a fellow Creeker have to feel like I felt. There is an old saying. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care! By the way, the part of the Creek you don't want to see change is the same part that made me want to join. I believe you and I are on the same sheet of music. That is just my opinion however. Thanks:)

[Steve Schlumpf]

Chris, while I agree with everything so far I have one area that I have a question about and that is pictures. The example you gave shows a 1600 x 1200 photo - all this time I have been reducing my photos to 600 x 400 - which unfortunately really reduces the amount of detail available. I may be wrong but I thought we had to reduce for bandwidth reasons. Is that not an issue? If size is no longer a problem I would much rather use the 1600 x 1200 size as it does show all the detail and doesn't hide much of anything! Just wondering...

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Chris, while I agree with everything so far I have one area that I have a question about and that is pictures. The example you gave shows a 1600 x 1200 photo - all this time I have been reducing my photos to 600 x 400 - which unfortunately really reduces the amount of detail available. I may be wrong but I thought we had to reduce for bandwidth reasons. Is that not an issue? If size is no longer a problem I would much rather use the 1600 x 1200 size as it does show all the detail and doesn't hide much of anything! Just wondering... Steve Size in dimensions is not always the determining factor of size in KB. When saving a JPG file you can increase the compression to a certain point without hurting the clarity of the pic so that it is noticeable. There is a little freeware program that does a very nice job of this called IrfanView. I usually set mine a bit smaller than the size of Adam's. If you need help with this or more info PM me. I'll be glad to do what I can.:)

[Jim Becker]

Steve Size in dimensions is not always the determining factor of size in KB.
True, but the degree of compression necessary for a large photo (in pixels) to fit within the 100kb limit of SMC will make for a very yucky (technical term... :o) presentation. 600-800 pixels wide is usually sufficient for critique with reasonable compression and it doesn't force most folks to start scrolling their browsers. And it's important to do a little sharpening when you reduce the physical size of the photo in pixels to restore detail...a little bit will do. If you over-sharpen, it doesn't look too nice. If there is a particular detail that requires "bigger", then a crop of that area prior to re-dimensioning the picture will provide a nice, clear shot for critique and/or enjoyment.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

True, but the degree of compression necessary for a large photo (in pixels) to fit within the 100kb limit of SMC will make for a very yucky (technical term... :o) presentation. 600-800 pixels wide is usually sufficient for critique with reasonable compression and it doesn't force most folks to start scrolling their browsers. And it's important to do a little sharpening when you reduce the physical size of the photo in pixels to restore detail...a little bit will do. If you over-sharpen, it doesn't look too nice. If there is a particular detail that requires "bigger", then a crop of that area prior to re-dimensioning the picture will provide a nice, clear shot for critique and/or enjoyment.That is one option and here is another. Unless you are using a camera phone most digital cameras even inexpensive ones will give you a pretty large picture mine is usually 2304 X 1728 Pixels, yours may be a bit smaller. now if you crop the picture while it is still full size you get something like 908 X 920 (Got very close to the edges of the bowl). Now, what ever the first number is I set it at 900 and have the option, Preserve aspect ratio, checked. On a bowl, this set of sizes is pretty standard unless i get close. I don't like to get to close due to distortion, Now when I save it, it has a size of 540 KB. way to big so I now re-save the pic at 65% of best quality (compression). The result gives me a size of 96KB with no visible loss of clarity. That is why I recommend the program I do. And, again, it is free. See for yourself: Once you open the photo click on it to expand it to full size.

[Jim Becker]

We're doing the same thing, Chris, just with different software. My photos start at 3008x2002 pixels with the D70. I typically display at 640x426 (if un-cropped) and at about 50-80kb. I do fine that when shrinking from the raw image to the web-sized image, a little sharpening greatly benefits the clarity of the shot, (information is lost when you reduce a photo's physical size in pixels). Your software may be doing that automatically. Photoshop Elements gives it to you as an option. Nice bowl, BTW...:)

[Christopher K. Hartley]

We're doing the same thing, Chris, just with different software. My photos start at 3008x2002 pixels with the D70. I typically display at 640x426 (if un-cropped) and at about 50-80kb. I do fine that when shrinking from the raw image to the web-sized image, a little sharpening greatly benefits the clarity of the shot, (information is lost when you reduce a photo's physical size in pixels). Your software may be doing that automatically. Photoshop Elements gives it to you as an option. Nice bowl, BTW...:)Got it Jim I believe you are right.