Help with Shop Layout/Design (pic)

[Glen Blanchard]

I am in the preliminary stages of developing the floor plan for my future shop, and am hoping to get some second opinions. I will be buying either a 3HP or 5HP Gorilla cyclone and plan on having the the Oneida folks design the DC routing, but have inserted my uneducated design here for purposes of demonstration. I have attempted to keep the high CFM demand tools close to the cyclone while placing the stationary sanders at the end of the line.

I am, however, more interested in hearing comments about overall tool layout. Am I on the right track with this?

Thanks in advance.

http://smilesrus.com/lot/shop_1.jpg

[Jim Becker]

My initial concern is infeed/outfeed space for your jointer and planer, especially the latter. Also consider where your material enters the shop relative to both storage and where you break it down. Many folks prefer their miter saw close to that entry point, for example. Which also brings up that I don't see any provisions for material storage...

BTW, your big sanders have perhaps the highest CFM requirements due to the level of fine dust they generate...

You may want to reverse the orientation of your tablesaw so that the DC drop is on the right side and then consider sharing it with another tool, such as your jointer or planer. Or group the jointer and planer to the same effect. There is no rule that says your tools have to be along the wall. In fact, that sometimes limits work flow. Group tools by how you use them together. It will reduce the number of drops on the DC ductwork and that saves you money. Take infrequently used tools and put them in the "tool corral"...wheeling them out only for use and again, having a shared drop to reduce the amount of fixed duct work you have to install and pay for.

[Glen Blanchard]

My initial concern is infeed/outfeed space for your jointer and planer, especially the latter. Also consider where your material enters the shop relative to both storage and where you break it down. Many folks prefer their miter saw close to that entry point, for example. Which also brings up that I don't see any provisions for material storage...


Thanks Jim. Good points. I also have concerns regarding infeed/outfeed especially for the planer. I'll have to work on that. I am planning on having wood storage in a nearby single car garage.

[Brian Dormer]

Looking at the workflow aspect - when you bring stick lumber in, you have to move it from the door (or the double doors) all the way across the shop to the miter saw. For sheet goods - the double doors are pretty close to the TS - so that's not so bad (except for the big clamp rack that's smack in your way). But coming in the single door - you have to work the sheets all the way across the shop to get to the TS.

Keep the feed direction of the tools (and which side of the miter saw you prefer to use) in mind and think "workflow" (stock enters, stock is stored, stock is broken down, milling, assembly, finishing).

You can probably gain a little space by putting the drill press at one end of your miter saw table.

Good first swag at a design - don't get discouraged - it took me 17 major revisions before I got my shop design even close to the way I've actually done it.

[Brian Dormer]

Another quick thought - since you have plumbing (sink and toilet) handy - what about putting a slop sink in that corner just outside the head? Better than having to wash out paint brushes in the can. I put a sink in my shop (at great expense) and it's made a HUGE difference.

And you have a great outfeed for the TS - but nothing for infeed - wrestling a 4x8 sheet of melamine or MDF solo is a bear without some infeed support.

[Neil Lamens]

Hi Glen:

First off.........I'm jealeous of the "lu" you've got planned....JEEZ is that going to keep you out of the "tracking dust dog house". Having a materials storage elsewhere is a huge space plus.

You must be very excited about planning your shop......for me it's rather difficult to comment until I know where your materials will be entering the shop. The idea is to always be moving your stock "forward to competion and always toward the exit for finished goods". Especially if you are headed into larger casegoods (ie: Chest of drawers, buffet, sideboards etc).

Without knowing your materials entry point (dbl doors??), my first thought was that you are giving more credit to secondary tools at the expense of primary machining.


Hope that helps further!!!!..........Neil

[Jim Becker]

my first thought was that you are giving more credit to secondary tools at the expense of primary machining.
A very good way to think about this. All too often it's very easy to think, "I have this tool, so I need to have it in a spot and have it hooked up all the time." And then we get another useful, but less-frequently used tool and do the same thing. And again. Before we know it...the shop is chock full of relatively stationary things and the space left for assembly, finishing and just plain comfort is at a minimum.

This is something I've been rethinking a lot over the last few shop revisions about and have been making adjustments accordingly. Even with some large tools and my first truly "stationary" machine (the 1400 lb slider), I now have a lot more usable space in the shop because things that don't get used much are more tucked away, yet ready to bring out and use when appropriate and necessary. The whole shop "feels" better because of it.

[Glen Blanchard]

my first thought was that you are giving more credit to secondary tools at the expense of primary machining.


Thanks Neil and everyone else for the suggestions. I'll do some re-arranging keeping your comments in mind.

Thanks again.

[Larry Nall]

If you have the option, you might want to put an outside door on the room with the Cyclone, so you don't have to haul dust through your shop.

[Andrew Williams]

I am by no means an expert on this, but when I was chatting with the guy at Oneida, he mentioned that if you put the collector in a closed room separate from the shop, you will need to put the filter on an extension to the shop, since otherwise it will create a slight vacuum in the shop, which could relieve itself in annoying or potentially dangerous ways. Perhaps back in through a furnace pipe or something.

[Andrew Williams]

I guess another thing I would plan if I had a free-standing building with plumbing would be a sprinkler system, and a sink in the shop so I dont have to always have a bucket of water around to clean my glue stuff and make wet rags etc.

[Bert Johansen]

Glen, here's a suggestion. Consider moving the TS toward the double door, the assembly table below it, the planer to the right of the assembly table, and the clamps in the lower corner. This keeps the clamps handy for assembly and gives you ample room for infeed/outfeed from the planer. Keep us posted!

[Glen Blanchard]

Okay, keeping the very helpful suggestions offered here in mind, I have made some changes. I added an exterior door to the equipment room so I can empty the cyclone from outside. I have moved the miter saw station between the doors - closer to where I will bring lumber into tje shop. I have added a "shop" sink in which to clean brushes, etc. I think I have commited more premium floor space to primary machining.

Better?


http://smilesrus.com/lot/shop_2.jpg

[Jim Becker]

If you flip the TS around, you can use the same drop for both it and the planer....

Plumbing would be simpler (and less expensive) if you put the slop sink just outside the bathroom.

Here's another thought...still needs refinement, but you can see what I'm thinking.

61976

[Andrew Williams]

I use my workbench more than anything, and I have it set up so I can approach it from all 4 sides. If it were up against the wall, I would want enough space on the right and left that I could work on a long board that was in the face vise and hanging off to the left 3 more feet. If you plane the face of a piece that is in the tail vise and dogs, you need space to stand back and your elbows need room.

[Darrin Vanden Bosch]

The one thing I didn't notice was where you store your lumber? That is where your shop flow starts as the wood needs to acclimate to your shop befor you start working it then rough cut it and let it acclimate again. Then you are ready to use all the other toys in the shop.
Darrin

[Robert Waddell]

I like the way Jim arrange the table saw, planer and sink, but I would want my joiner close to the mitersaw, planer and tablesaw. I would bring it out beside the planer or switch with the assembly table.
In my stop I store lumber next to the mitersaw. I cut parts to rough lengths on the mitersaw then move to the joiner, from there to the planer and continue on to the tablesaw. Drum sanding, drilling, turning, bandsawing, routing are secondary functions dependant on the project so the positioning of those machines are less critical IMO but DC requires some thought on pairing them for drops. Assembly needs to be close to air compressor, storage cabinets, hand tools, clamps, etc.
Just my 0.02
Rob

[Brian Dormer]

I'm with Jim on the sink and turning the TS. Your slop sink monopolizes an entire wall. It also seems like you are "wasting" the available space in the corners.

For example: You switched from a free standing clamp rack to chewing up some prime wall space with clamps. I would put the clamps on a tall, rotating carosel stand (like sunglasses in the drugstore) and park it in a corner - slide the miter saw station over to make it more centrally located and put up a wall rack for lumber storage right inside the single door. You should also have a place for sheet goods. Even if you store most of your lumber elsewhere - its nice to have some stock right at hand.

Drill presses and bandsaws (or anything mobile) are a good candidates for corner storage.

You are certainly on the right track - I think you have the "big stuff" in the optimum locations. Now it's a matter of working out the details.

[Bert Johansen]

Glen, lots of advice coming your way, and it all sounds good. I'll add yet another couple of possibilities. Swap the jointer with the miter saw station and (as already suggested) build a mobile clamp carousel. Also, if we say the top of your schematic is "North," place the miter saw station centered between the South windows and build your cabinets such that the lower cabinet top matches the miter saw platform, doing double duty extending the length of the miter saw platform.

[Scott Taylor]

If I could only convince my wife to give up the basement for a shop with a "house footprint" !!!! I'm jealous...but,

Have you built your assembly table yet? If not, integrate some large, thin drawers under the assembly surface to store your clamps. That way they are always within reach, AND, you save yourself some wall space for something more critical. Ironically, I am trying to figure this dilema out in my shop now. They simply take up too much wall space, and putting a machine in front makes them difficult to get to when have an oops and need a few more clamps when a glue-up is floating, or something along those lines.

Great post/question. This one has gotten me to think about my arrangement as well. Great replies guys, keep 'em comin.


Scott

[Dave Lewis]

Since you asked...

I do quite a bit of (long) mouldings w/ the router table and use the mitre saw table for additional support.
My Penn State cyclone doesn't produce any dust, so putting that component into a closet would reduce noise, but you need need hearing protection anyhow w/ machinery operating. Why not elongate the structure.
I don't see any space allocated for shop storage of wood - It's nice to allow acclimation (sp?) before milling.
I don't spray finish, but others who do prefer a separate area.
BTW, sure doesn't hurt to plan and draw - good idea.

[Art Mulder]

I added an exterior door to the equipment room so I can empty the cyclone from outside. I have moved the miter saw station between the doors - closer to where I will bring lumber into the shop.

Just some thoughts...

- you now have 3 exterior doors into the shop. Are these all necessary? Personally, it seems a bit excessive to me to go through the expense and effort of putting in an exterior door just for emptying the cyclone. It is a shop after all, it will have sawdust in it. is this seriously going to make any major impact on cleanliness? Consider this: how much would it cost to put the vacuum option on your cyclone, which lets you use bags in the collection barrel. (Bags in the barrel will really help contain the mess.) Now, compare that to how much it will cost you to put in an exterior door.

- I like Jims point about moving the sink, and putting the planer beside the TS, but it probably still needs tweaking, as it looks crowded/congested between the planer and the surface sander.

- I also like the suggestion of the clamp carousel in the corner. Hmm.

- some good points have been made about where lumber is stored, and how it enters the shop. Like many folks, I like to keep the jointer near the TS. The two seem to go together frequently. Yet most folks also usually want the jointer near where the rough stock is brought in, sorted out, and cut to rough length. I don't think you've quite got that yet.

best,
...art

[Bart Leetch]

Well to start with I would move the double doors into the corner where the single door is & open more space up for use where the double doors are now. Then group your Table-saw Jointer & planer running in the same direction & not to far from each other unless your a track star, make it so you can easily turn from the table-saw to the jointer & back again. Keep your CMS & material storage close to each other. I would want my Cyclone, compressor & bathroom close to the entry. Also my preference would be to have the table-saw facing where I have my sheet goods & not to far from them.