Tool question...

[Eric Hartunian]

Hi guys, Wondering what the benefit is to buying gouges that use a metal handle, IE; Oneway or Kelton's handle. I am at the point where I need to get some bowl gouges for basic bowls, and am wondering if in the long run, I'd be better off buying switch-handle tools, or standard gouges with wood handles.
Thanks,
Eric

[Jim Becker]

Some turners like the heavier, vibration dampening properties of that type of handle and since the cutters are interchangeable, you're always working with the "same" handle...great for comfort and familiarity.

[Gordon Seto]

I prefer the removable handles (steel or wood).
It allows me to adjust the length of the gouge to get the best balance. Sometimes I want longer tool to take advantage of leverage. At other time, I want a short tool to get closer to work.
Without the weight of the handle, I can get a better control during grinding (especially free hand).
The down side is some steel handle is cold to touch in winter in unheated shop.

Gordon

[George Tokarev]

I'd rather not have to support the weight of the handle, so the only one I'd even begin to recommend would be Aluminum. With the minimum toolrest overhang you strive for for best control, everything on the near side of the fulcrum is a load on your arm. Thus the traditional use of strong but light handle material.

Depending on how you turn, you may find that long handle a liability as you try to get someone else's grind to turn an inside corner. S/he may not use that tool for the job, and may not have trouble getting the angle around the banjo and rest. I solve that problem by cutting almost on centerline, using gouges suited to that cut. Most of my tools have the handles they came with save the big bowl gouges, where I shortened them to get clearance for my old Delta.

[Eric Hartunian]

Any recommendations on which handle to start with? I am thinking of a P&N bowl gouge, which I believe has a 1/2" shank. I was considering the Bosche handle, or maybe the Oneway. I am sure either of these are of good quality. Is there anything I should watch out for?
Thanks again for your input.
Eric

[Bob Hallowell]

Why don't you just make some wood handles. I try to make them out of different heavy exotic wood so it's easy to tell them apart. Here is a p&n roughing gouge made with a ligaum vitae handle. If I was doing a bowl gouge it would be longer and I would of started with a 2"x"2

Bob

[Eric Hartunian]

Thats a nice handle, Bob. Is that plain copper pipe for the ferule? I used that once for a small handle I made for a file. Hasn't tarnished yet, so I guess it's alright!
Thanks,
Eric

[Bernie Weishapl]

Eric here is 2 conventional grind P & N Bowl gouges I use for the final cut on bowls. One is a 3/8" and the other is 1/2". Handle is made of ash.

[Kaptan J.W. Meek]

Is there a place where you can order just the cutters, and make handles for them?... I have alot of nice holly trees around my place.. I think they would make some nice handles..

[Jim Becker]

Kaptan, the P&N tooling is only sold un-handled...perfect for your needs. The OneWay gouges are also available un-handled.

[Steve Kubien]

Where is everybody getting their P&N gouges? Is anyone's price better than the others?

Thanks,
Steve Kubien

[Jim Becker]

If I were going to buy some P&N tooling (or just about anything else in the area of tools and accessories for turning), it would be from Packard Woodworks. These folks know customer service and are a small, closely run business.

P&N Tools at Packard (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=tools-pn)

[Gordon Seto]

Another option is "Thompson A-11 gouges". These are the latest introduction in the turning world. They are made with the same A-11 steel that Jerry Glasser's red handle gouges which cost over hundred dollars each. They have longer wear resistance than M-2 High Speed Steel. You can only get from Doug Thompson himself. By bypassing all the middle man, they are now very affordable.
He took a bunch of his new gouges for our Club members to take home to try and return them in the following month's meeting. It ended up almost all testers bought the gouges instead of returning for others to try.
He makes both "V" & "U" shape bowl gouges. I particularly like his detail gouges; they are very rigid. They can be extended further over the toolrest than any spindle gouges of the same size without chatter.
I already have Sorby, Crown Pro PM, P&N, Oneway and Glasser bowl gouges of various sizes, I only bought one of his "V" bowl gouge. I am interested to compare the "U" & "V" bowl gouges. I also believe he is the only who provides both.
Disclaimer: I am just a happy user of his gouges, I have no fiancial relation with the Thompson gouges.

Gordon

[Chuck Beland]

Gordon,
Could you post a link to his web site for us please.

Chuck

[Gordon Seto]

Gordon,
Could you post a link to his web site for us please.

Chuck
Chuck,

He doesn't have a web site that I know of. I don't know whether it is ok to post his email address on SMC. I once post a informative link here, and it was against the SMC rules. We are guests of the forum and must follow what our hosts want.
I will email Doug Thompson and ask him to post here. I hope he has a public profile; so you can email him directly if you want to.
Or you can PM me to get his email address after 24 hours.

Gordon

[Mark Pruitt]

I know myself all too well to believe that I would actually tolerate having to constantly swap tools between handles. It wouldn't matter how easy it would be either. It's still "one extra step" that I prefer not to take.

If I bought unhandled tools I would definitely go the route of Bernie, Bob and others who chose to make dedicated handles.

[Doug Thompson]

I've been around this site long enough to know about the rules but to tell the story. Many in the Cleveland area heard this before.

This started over a year ago after phone call with a manufacture to buy some replacement blades for a tool handle I own. Turning is expensive and times we all take a deep breath before placing an order but this time it took my breath away. After the call the only words out of my mouth were... That's not fair!

I have a small metal shop and decided to make a tool I wanted to use everyday. To my surprise they worked. Well, like a proud woodturner I told my friends "Look what I made" and passed them out. Other woodturners would ask for different shapes and with there help I'd make them.

This was a nice hobby, it spread by word of mouth until one day it hit the internet. In short that's the story.

Doug

[Pete Jordan]

Doug,

I would be interested in seeing your wares. Maybe you could post something in the classifieds with pictures and prices.
thanks,
Pete

[Jim Becker]

Doug, posting in the classifieds will not work since it would be considered commercial, but posting in this thread with some pictures/examples of your tools is acceptable since it helps answer an existing question. ;) 'Tis a fine line, I know...and you might consider chatting with Keith about sponsoring a Manufacturer's Forum here at SMC. A very nice marketing tool and a great community to share it with.

[Steve Kubien]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the info on Packard and the P&N tools. I looked through their site and couldn't find them on my own, even though they were staring me right in the face.

Cheers,
Steve Kubien
P.S. My next tool order will be with Doug. I've heard too many good things about his tools and the drool is starting to get outta hand.

[Doug Thompson]

Thanks everyone... I'm at work now so no pictures till tonight. This is a hobby that has grown because of other woodturners have asked and provided help along the way. Sometimes I feel like the laborer working on a assembly line... it's not as fun as turning wood but you meet a lot of good people. I haven't found a bad apple in the whole group.

It's hard but fun to design a tool from scratch. Next time your turning think about how you could improve the flute shape... you would be surprised how a small change can make a huge difference how well it cuts. A clogged flute was my biggest complant with the flute shape I learned on but there are ways around it IF you think about it with a open mind. We as woodturners need to think outside the box because there just might be a better way.

Thanks again,
Doug

[Doug Thompson]

Doug,

I would be interested in seeing your wares.
thanks,
Pete

Pete, this is the only picture I'll post but it does show the tools I like to use. From the center of the picture going left a 3/8V and a 1/2V are the only tools needed to turn a hat. That's from a rough blank to the last finish cuts. What really amazed me was the fact many turners use a 5/8 diameter tool and most want a U shape flute. That's some of them.

Jim, this is so new and it still a hobby. I could help people with different ideas.

Thanks again,
Doug

[Darrell Feltmate]

Making a metal handle is not hard, especially if you have a length of pipe that fits the shaft you want to use. Just drill and tap it for a couple of set screws and wrap it with rope, leather or whatever. Here is a picture of a tool that uses a cutting bit in a one piece metal handle and shaft. It is pretty obvious how to adapt it. The tool is make from a 24" long 1/2" galvanized pipe nipple, two 6m x 1 set screws, a 3/8" tool bit and a length of 3/16" rope.
http://aroundthewoods.com/001images/s_image09.jpg

[Joe Melton]

What is the difference between the "V" and "U" gouges in terms of usage and performance?
Joe

[George Tokarev]

What is the difference between the "V" and "U" gouges in terms of usage and performance?
Joe

Depends on which portion of the gouge you're using and the angle of grind and attack. U gouges curve and eject shavings on heavy hogging with the wings, V gouges tend to fold or break them. If you have the handle real low it may never bother you. I like my handles high to take advantage of the toolrest, so it makes a difference.

[Bill Blasic]

I now have 3 of Dougs V Bowl Gouges and they are great tools. They are made from CPM-10V, this is a powdered steel with a 10% Vanadium content. They are hardened to 60 Rockwell and triple tempered with a Cryogenic treatment between 1st and 2nd temper. All the tools are 10" long with 6" flute except the 5/8 gouge which is 12" long with a 7" flute. Look in your catalogs to see what a Cryogenic gouge is going for and then contact Doug to see his prices. These tools cut beautifully and hold an edge longer than my other tools. I am one satisfied customer.

[Doug Thompson]

Depends on which portion of the gouge you're using and the angle of grind and attack. U gouges curve and eject shavings on heavy hogging with the wings, V gouges tend to fold or break them.

George, I use a V shape tool 100% of the time... How does the angle of attack differ between a V and U shape? This is one question I can't answer, Gordon Seto asked the question before without much response.

Many V shape flutes do clog, this was a problem I wanted to solve. After many trips from the mill to the lathe I found the balance between the flute shape and depth so it doesn't clog. IMO the depth of cut on a V shape tool should max out at the diameter of the tool steel. Example; a 5/8 diameter V shape tool should cut green wood to a depth of 5/8 and no more so a 1/2 inch depth would be the adverage roughing cut.

[David Little]

Steve, if you are interested in P & N tools, you might try Rich Johnson at latheart@pacbell.net. I bought my P & N 12 MM gouge from him.

[Pat Scott]

Chuck,

He doesn't have a web site that I know of. I don't know whether it is ok to post his email address on SMC. I once post a informative link here, and it was against the SMC rules. We are guests of the forum and must follow what our hosts want.
I will email Doug Thompson and ask him to post here. I hope he has a public profile; so you can email him directly if you want to.
Or you can PM me to get his email address after 24 hours.

Gordon

I just read this post, even though it's 3 years old. Doug Thompson's website is www.thompsonlathetools.com (http://www.thompsonlathetools.com).

[Reed Gray]

I prefer Doug's tools to any that I have used. He does have a web site.

As to handles, I prefer straight (no bumps, knobs, burnt in lines, just a straight cylinder) wood handles, preferably oak, ash, hickory, madrone, walnut, or other woods that are hard, but not really heavy like some of the exotics. I may need to get one of the cam lock type handles for traveling if I ever want to move around and do a lot of demos. I tried the aluminum shot filled handles (Glaser tools) and didn't like them. They were too heavy, and the vibration dampening wasn't very much. You can get the same effect by keeping your tool rest close to the work.

robo hippy