Show of hands?

[Ron Hedrick]

Do you still have the original blade guard and splitter installed on your tablesaw? If not what do you now use? Also if you use the original blade guard and splitter do you remove it whenever you run dados?

I am using the original blade guard and splitter, but have to remove it when I run dados. This is becoming a pain.

FOOTNOTE:

When I originally typed this I did not think about the phrase "Show of Hands", when discussing guards. It is humorous in a sick sort of way.

[glenn bradley]

I use shopmade ZCI's that hold an MJ Splitter and an overarm dust collector / bladeguard combo. The original blade guard never made it out of the box. With a few exceptions on upper end saws; original blade guards are (read a bit of sarcasm here) more dangerous than not. JMHO

[Tim Malyszko]

Hey Ron,

I see you are from Arnold. We aren't too far apart from one another.

To answer your question, I am bad and don't use the blade guard and splitter at all on my Ridgid Tablesaw. I found it too finicky, especially taking it on and off for various reasons.

Now that I have a good dust collector, the shark guard is on my future list of purchases. You can check them out here:

http://www.leestyron.com/sharkguard.php

Good luck with your search.

[Jim Becker]

When I had my cabinet saw, the OEM guard and splitter went in the trash and were replaced with the Biesemeyer snap-in splitter and an Excalibur overarm guard. My current machine uses a riving knife which stays on the saw 100% of the time unless I were to use a dado set, and the over-blade guard/collector comes off and on with a flick of the wrist.

[Charles Wilson]

You said, "When I had my cabinet TS".

What do you use now?

Regards,
Chuck

[Andrew Williams]

I use mine whenever possible. I cannot afford to have even a minor hand injury, so I tend to be extra careful around machinery. The important thing was setting up the splitter to be coplanar with the teeth of the blade on the fence side. If it is set up on the opposite side, then any error in the thickness of the splitter will deflect the fence by that much.

There have been issues, such as induced stress-relief coming from ripping thick red oak that had internal stresses, leading to closing up of the kerf around the splitter, making it tough to force the wood through. I would prefer that situation to the possibility of the kerf closing up on the back teeth of the blade and inducing a full-scale kickback. A european riving knife would probably be a better tool to deal with this phenomenon, provided that it was ground to exactly match or slightly exceed the thickness of a carbide-tipped blade.

I remove it when i have to. For ripping thin strips I use a large thin plywood push stick. For grooves and dados I use floats and push sticks. I don't use it with my crosscut sled. The pawls make it impossible to pull the sled back.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I used my stock guard and splitter off and on. I now use a Biesemeyer removeable splitter and an Excalibur overarm guard whenever possible. It seems that after I cut the end of my thumb "whenever possible" became a rule in my shop. It's a rather painful way to learn a basic lesson.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Do you still have the original blade guard and splitter installed on your tablesaw?

No way~!! I took them off my first TS 36 years ago and threw them in the trash. I never missed 'em. I did the same when I got my Slider. I have no use for things that get in the way.
A couple of times I mounted the riving knife only to decide that I'm happier with little wood wedges.


If not what do you now use?
If I'm working a thing that may kick from the wood closing on the blade I shove a little wedge of wood in the kerf. Works every time.


This is becoming a pain.

Yah it is.

I was a machinist tool maker for about 15 years. In the trade I learned ( and ingrained in my brain) a lot of safe habits and ways of thinking about machinery and my safety. I think this makes a whole lot of difference. Were it nor for that I'd probably be wise to use the riving knife at least. The blade guard is my idea of a complete waste unless it's incorporated into a DC system. Then it serves a purpose other than (in addition to) making access to the blade difficult.

[Jim Fox]

I am bad also............neither my blade guard or splitter (attached to blade guard) are on the ShopFox Saw. I found it annoying to have to take it on and off for dado work. I know I know...............don't jump my case.

Been tossing the idea around about getting a SharkGuard, but haven't yet.

[Rick de Roque]

I have a shop made ZCI with shop made splitter. I have the splitter on at all times except when the dado blade is on. The stock splitter went in the trash day one.

Rick

[Ted Miller]

Yes I am guilty as well. Growing up with skill saws with the gaurds removed taught me to pay undivided attention to any power tool. Never had a guard or splitter on any TS I have owned. Safety comes first with my hands and always first when I flip any switch on any power tool. I have to see and feel exactly what that blade is doing while I am cutting no matter what I am cutting...

[Jim Flynn]

On my old TS I had the guard off more than on mostly due to the design. On my MiniMax it is on more than off. I rarely if ever take off the riving knife and the overhead guard is on 98% of the time. All told the slider is so much safer and the guards are so much more unobtrusive that it is easy to live with them.

[Mike Circo]

After 12 years with my Delta saw, the originals are still on.

I may be the exception to the rule, but I just don't get all the complaints about the stock guards and splitter being in the way, too hard to remove, etc. I'm very happy and feel MUCH safer with them there.

You couldn't pay me enough to work without the guard and splitter. I've seen too many stories of "experienced" people having a momentary lapse and getting a horrendous injury that the guard or splitter would prevent.

[Paul Douglass]

My original is still on. Coarse I haven't even fired up the saw yet! I'm afraid, like with my past saw the guard will get tossed. I would like somekind of splitter though. Something that works better than a screwdriver!:rolleyes:

[Homer Faucett]

After 12 years with my Delta saw, the originals are still on.

I may be the exception to the rule, but I just don't get all the complaints about the stock guards and splitter being in the way, too hard to remove, etc. I'm very happy and feel MUCH safer with them there.

You couldn't pay me enough to work without the guard and splitter. I've seen too many stories of "experienced" people having a momentary lapse and getting a horrendous injury that the guard or splitter would prevent.

Amen.

I used the stock splitter/guard religiously on my Delta for the 3 years I had it. It never caused any problems except on non-through cuts. I seldom made non-thorugh cuts, but when I did, it took maybe 30 seconds to remove it with the wrench that I had handy. I never had a kickback on that saw.

I now have a Sawstop, and it always has either the riving knife or the blade guard/splitter installed. You won't catch me using a saw without one.

[Larry Conely]

My Inca 2100 came with a riving knife that is always in place. The standard blade guard has never been on the saw. I wish now I had purchased the optional SUVA guard, but they are no longer available.

I also had an Inca 850. The riving knife was always in place. I also had the optional SUVA guard for that saw ans liked it. It was almost always attached for any operation that permitted it.

Larry

[Michael Lutz]

When I got my PM 66, I took one look at the blade guard and determined I wasn't going to use it. I did get a Biesemeyer snap in splitter, which I use most of the time. I had been thinking of getting the Shark guard mainly for dust collection purposes.

Mike

[Jim DeLaney]

I have a Shop Fox cabinet saw, with Delta Uniguard and a Biesemeier splitter. I gave the Delta removeable splitter to a friend recently.

The guard and splitter are used pretty much all the time. Exceptions are cutting dadoes, and when the sled is in use. On those occasions, the splitter is removed. Also, when doing raised panels, etc., the guard has to be removed for height clearance.

[Brad Ridgway]

I have the General International contractor... I tried to use the factory junk it for safety's sake... I liked the riving knives. But i could never get the thing to line up perpendicular to the table nor with the blade...

After i got a big sheet of plywood stuck last weekend end, i ripped it off and it's going in the attic in case i ever sell...

I want the beismeyer like Jim, but i don't think the delta contractor version will work on the General. I just bought some MJ Splitters to put in some zero clearance inserts. May try it over the weekend. But obviouly there is no riving knive there...

Also, the latest issue of Shopnotes looks like it has plans for building your own blade guard. I may try to pick this up - looks promising... most of my dust is sent forward above the saw right now...

-brad

[Alfred Clem]

I use the splitter and guard that came with my Grizzly 1023SL, and I use a Dubby sled when cross-cutting or working with small stuff. Occasionally, I slip in a VCI when doing skinny cuts. My Woodworker II blade replaced the original blade very early on.

BUT the important thing I still use is my brain. I plan every single step. Yes, I am very respectful of my Grizzly and recognize it can do bad things a lot faster than I can get out of the way. So I sort of "role play" each cut.

This "thinking the cut through" is especially important if I am doing the same "simple" act over and over again. Repeated actions lead to carelessness, right? And I NEVER work when I am tired. I quit and have a beer.

And so here I am -- age 80 and have all my fingers. Scared of kickbacks, too. Always will be.

[Paul Canaris]

Slider witha riving knife and guard in palce at all times.

Whne I had TS, the gurad seemed to me to be more dangerous on then off.

[frank shic]

i replaced the OEM splitter/blade guard on my powermatic 64 contractor's saw with the sharkguard for improved visibility and dust collection and the OEM blade insert with a phenolic one from rockler. i seldom use dados except for on jigs for t-track and when i need them, i prefer to rout them. changing out the blade insert is a definite pain! operating WITHOUT a blade guard is a great way to test out your medical coverage - i don't recommend it no matter how inconvenient it may seem.

[Robert Strasser]

I have the Biesemeyer snap-in splitter and an Excalibur overarm guard on my PM-66. The original equipment was pathetic.

[glenn bradley]

I am amazed at how many future amputees we have in this discussion.

[tim rowledge]

Same here; the riving knife stays in place on my slider and so far I've not had reason to ever remove the guard. Dados get done by router.

Apart from any other safety considerations the guard on my MM CU300 is an important part of good dust collection.

[Tom Young]

No, I took them off shortly after I bought the saw, a Powermatic 54A. I use homemade zero clearance inserts with hardwood splitters. I've made several different ZCI's with splitters of differing heights so I can make dadoes and grooves and still use the splitter.

Tom

[Bruce Page]

I use a snap in splitter and ZCI on my Unisaw. Don't use the guard.

[Doug Shepard]

What's a guard??:confused:

I did get the Microjig splitter for Christmas but still have to install it (haven't used the saw since getting it as the shop's been in hibernation).

[Steve Schoene]

I have a Biesemeyer splitter, with pawls intact, that I use religiously when ripping. I use feather boards often, and a shoe type push stick.

I also have a Brett Guard that I keep, but never use, since I think that on balance it reduces safety.

[Barry Anderson]

Microjig splitter ... no guard.

Barry in WV

[Jim Becker]

You said, "When I had my cabinet TS".

What do you use now?

I use a Euro sliding table saw...MiniMax S315 WS. Riving knives are standard as is the easily removable overhead dust pickup/guard.

[Robert Waddell]

I've got a Biesmeyer snap in splitter and a shop built overarm guard on the Unisaw but neither on my contractors saw. For most of my work I can't use guard or splitter because it is narrow strip ripping with a thin kerf blade.
If I did cabinet panels everyday they both would be in place all the time.
Rob

[Frederick Rowe]

Delta Unisaw. Installed factory blade guard and splitter for one cut. Anti kickback pawls gouged wood, guard wouldn't stay up. I've been using the saw without any guard using a wood shop made stub splitter, but have a Shark Guard w/brass anti kickback pawls on order. Truth is though, the Shark Guard was ordered for dust control more than for safety.

[Dennis Peacock]

Nope....took them off after the first try of using them on the new saw and have never used them again.

[Brad Townsend]

Unisaw with Sharkguard. Good protection but comes off quick when necessary.

[Bruce Benjamin]

I'm with you on this one, Mike, only I have the General Int. contractor saw. Mine has worked fine for everything it's intended to do for a few years now. I really don't understand what can be so bad about the stock guides. Of course now I rarely use my TS and instead use my EZ Smart for 99% of my cuts. Safer than any type of TS made. But for the few cuts that I still do on my TS I use the stock guard. About the only thing I need it for is for deeper cuts that my Hilti on the Ez won't allow. As soon as I get a larger circular saw I suppose the TS will be up for sale.:cool: I'm just amazed at how many people think that as long as they are careful they won't get bitten by their TS with no guard. Out of the hundreds of thousands of miles I've driven cars and big rigs over the years I've only needed my seat belts 2 times. I guess I can do without those too.:rolleyes:


After 12 years with my Delta saw, the originals are still on.

I may be the exception to the rule, but I just don't get all the complaints about the stock guards and splitter being in the way, too hard to remove, etc. I'm very happy and feel MUCH safer with them there.

You couldn't pay me enough to work without the guard and splitter. I've seen too many stories of "experienced" people having a momentary lapse and getting a horrendous injury that the guard or splitter would prevent.

[Mike Parzych]

Guard and splitter?.....hell, I don't even know where they're at anymore.

[Jim Becker]

I really don't understand what can be so bad about the stock {guards}.
The bottom line is that most (not all) of them are difficult to remove and re-install. Therefore, the first time someone takes the OEM splitter/guard off for a non-through cut, they tend not to reinstall them just because it's a pain in the you-know-what. Then, they invariably get lost or, um..."recycled". (to the landfill) Those woodworkers whose saws are setup so that safety accomodations are easy to deal with tend to actually use the safety devices, whether they are OEM (such as with the Euro machines or newer models like the PM2000, SawStop and the Bosch job-site saw) or after-market like the Biesemeyer or Delta drop in splitters, etc.

[Tom Hamilton]

The factory splitter and guard are on the Steel City cabinet saw and will stay. I'll modify the guard to accept a vac hose for dust collection. I'm just not comfortable with nothing to separate me from the sharp spinning thing.

Tom, in Houston, guards, pawls and splitter in place.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Mine takes about 30 seconds to remove and maybe a minute or less to reinstall. And that includes reaching into the drawer to grab the wrench. I think that some people, (not necessarily you) will just find about any reason to do without safety equipment. But to each their own. I'm keeping my fingers even if I do sneeze while cutting. But again, I'm mostly using the EZ. :rolleyes:

Bruce


The bottom line is that most (not all) of them are difficult to remove and re-install. Therefore, the first time someone takes the OEM splitter/guard off for a non-through cut, they tend not to reinstall them just because it's a pain in the you-know-what. .

[Jim C Bradley]

Hi,
I'm with my son, Glenn Bradley. However, I don't own the overhead DC yet. I am great with featherboards, horizontal and vertical. I have only had a few saws though they had one thing in common---the sawblade guards were always in my way visually or physically. The guards would be removed and set aside for use when convenient. Then a month or two later they were put in the attic to be removed when I sold the saw.
Enjoy,
Jim

[Mike Heidrick]

I have used the RK or Guard 100% since getting teh sawstop. The RK is very nice.

On the Delta saw I had I bought the $40 screw down Delta splitter and it was nice. Not snap in but almost as fast.

[Rod Sheridan]

When I had a contractor saw, I used to remove/re-install the guard/splitter as required.

When I purchased a General 650, I purchased a Merlin splitter and an Excalibur over arm guard, which allows me to always keep at least the guard on the table saw. If the saw had a riving knife, I wouldn't have to remove it when cutting dadoes, like I have to with the Merlin splitter.

Regards, Rod.

[Tyler Howell]

PM 66. Bies Splitter with and EXcal Guard.:cool:

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The bottom line is that most (not all) of them are difficult to remove and re-install. Therefore, the first time someone takes the OEM splitter/guard off for a non-through cut, they tend not to reinstall them just because it's a pain in the you-know-what. Then, they invariably get lost or, um..."recycled". (to the landfill)

If someome were to reverse engineer the Bosch Jigsaw tool-less blade change mechanism and apply it to a Riving knife mechanism I'd consider buying it. If I had something like that I'd allmost certainly use it.

[Jim Becker]

If someome were to reverse engineer the Bosch Jigsaw tool-less blade change mechanism and apply it to a Riving knife mechanism I'd consider buying it. If I had something like that I'd allmost certainly use it.

At least with a riving knife set just below the top of the blade...you almost never have to adjust it unless you change to a different size blade. That's how I have mine setup on the S3154 WS at this point...I only touch the riving knife if I want to use the overhead dust collection and it takes just a minute since access is so easy...slide the slider wagon back, open the shroud with a twist of the knob, loosen the nut, adjust the knife up, down or off/on for a change, retighten, close the shroud. Done.

[Brian Dormer]

Craftsman 22114 - stock guard and splitter are STILL in original package. Never used them. I have a ZCI and MJ splitter that have yet to be installed. I keep the saw in tune (< .002 deviation from parallel) and I've only had one minor kickback (and I saw it coming - so was out of the way when it happened).

I wish someone made a riving knife for this saw.

You have motivated me - next project is to get the ZCI and splitter set up.

[Phil Harding]

I use Microjig splitters in zero clearance inserts on my Grizzly 1023 SL. I also use a Penn State Industries overhead guard. It provides good protection (and OK dust collection) when it's not in the way. Unfortunately it seems to be in the way most of the time.

-- Phil

[James Carmichael]

So for the MJ users, do you go without for bevel cuts?

[Scott Vigder]

Took off the factory junk from my X5 Unisaw and use GRR-Rippers & featherboards for nearly every cut.

[Glen Gunderson]

Mine takes about 30 seconds to remove and maybe a minute or less to reinstall. And that includes reaching into the drawer to grab the wrench. I think that some people, (not necessarily you) will just find about any reason to do without safety equipment. But to each their own. I'm keeping my fingers even if I do sneeze while cutting. But again, I'm mostly using the EZ. :rolleyes:
Bruce

I can do you one better. I changed the standard nuts on my General International's blade guard mounts to 2 wing nuts and a thumb screw (see pictures). In all honesty and without undue rush, I can remove the guard in 3-4 seconds and replace it in 6-7. The mounting points stay in place with the guard removed, therefore alignment is not an issue when it is replaced.

Woodworkers in general seem to have a fair bit of ingenuity, but I'm surprised (and somewhat disappointed) that many will throw away their safety equipment after using a it once rather than trying to find a way to make them simpler and more user friendly.

Once you get into the habit of keeping the guard on, you'll realize how few times you actually have to take it off. It takes less time to remove my guard than it does to change a blade, change a bit in a drill press, change a router bit, or even change the sandpaper on the ROS. People will gladly invest lots of time in mundane tasks such as these to improve their work, but when it comes to their safety all of a sudden their time is of the absolute premium.

62123

62124

62125

[Bart Leetch]

I use a Euro sliding table saw...MiniMax S315 WS. Riving knives are standard as is the easily removable overhead dust pickup/guard.

Coupe DeVille drivers are taking over the planet.:D :D :D You know big fins = (sliders) bright fancy tail lights = (big smiles) a 1959 Caddy don't have nothin on you Jim. etc.:eek: :D

[Bruce Benjamin]

Glen, I agree with you on everything you said. I can honestly say that for more than 90% of my cuts my stock GI guard and splitter doesn't get in my way at all. Of course for dados it has to be removed but as I said, it takes maybe half a minute. If I added the wing nuts and knob like you did it would take even less. The only place where it does get in the way is on very narrow rips and even on those I can usually get one of my push sticks in there. Ok, so now that I nearly always use my EZ Smart it's a moot point but you get the idea. If I used it more I'd swap out the hex nuts for wing nuts and a thumb screw. I do still use it for deeper cuts that my EZ/Hilti combo can't reach.

I really don't see how there can be such a difference between the results that we get with our stock guards and what others get. You set your fence or miter gauge. Set the wood on the table. Turn on the saw. Push the wood through and the guard lifts up and out of the way. What's the problem? I know they aren't all exactly the same and I have seen some that were definitely not as good as the GI guard and some that are a little better. But if I didn't like the guard I have I would buy an after market version. As it is, I don't believe any guard, (or SawStop) can prevent all injuries. That's one reason why I switched to a guided circular saw system.

I know it's not going to be a popular viewpoint here but I really think the real reason is that they just don't want to use them. Maybe it's because of what they've read on WW forums or what they or their dads did in the old days or whatever. I have very little sympathy for anyone who gets hurt because they use their saw without some sort of guard in place. The same goes to those who don't wear their seat belts when they drive or helmets on their motorcycles or bicycles. To each their own. Just don't bother sharing your tales of lost fingers because you didn't plan for the unexpected slip, sneeze, knot, warp, or whatever else caused the accident. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm just answering those who almost seem to be bragging how they never even installed a guard or tossed it early on because they couldn't be bothered. Ok, whatever you want to do. :rolleyes: Just please don't try to tell others that it's safer without a guard. Some of the members of this forum are novices and don't need the bad advice.

Bruce



I can do you one better. I changed the standard nuts on my General International's blade guard mounts to 2 wing nuts and a thumb screw (see pictures). In all honesty and without undue rush, I can remove the guard in 3-4 seconds and replace it in 6-7. The mounting points stay in place with the guard removed, therefore alignment is not an issue when it is replaced.

Woodworkers in general seem to have a fair bit of ingenuity, but I'm surprised (and somewhat disappointed) that many will throw away their safety equipment after using a it once rather than trying to find a way to make them simpler and more user friendly.

Once you get into the habit of keeping the guard on, you'll realize how few times you actually have to take it off. It takes less time to remove my guard than it does to change a blade, change a bit in a drill press, change a router bit, or even change the sandpaper on the ROS. People will gladly invest lots of time in mundane tasks such as these to improve their work, but when it comes to their safety all of a sudden their time is of the absolute premium.

[Bart Leetch]

"Glen, I agree with you on everything you said. I can honestly say that for more than 90% of my cuts my stock GI guard and splitter doesn't get in my way at all.
I really don't see how there can be such a difference between the results that we get with our stock guards and what others get. You set your fence or miter gauge. Set the wood on the table. Turn on the saw. Push the wood through and the guard lifts up and out of the way. What's the problem? I know they aren't all exactly the same and I have seen some that were definitely not as good as the GI guard and some that are a little better. "

For me the difference was I purchased a 1940 Unisaw with no wings no guard system & a 3 phase motor which I built up into the saw I wanted. I had a Exaktor blade guard system probably the worst after market system made. Big hard to work around & not easy to see what is going on inside the guard even after I installed a light inside of it. So I cobbled together my own guard kinda like the Delta guard where each side of the guard is movable. I've about decided you can have good dust collection or you can have a good guard. Any other way one or the other will be mediocre. With my guard I can flip up one or the other or both sides & visibility & protection is great but no DC. I used the orange tube from the Exaktor system & made yokes that wrap around the tube & & fasten to plywood which is screwed to the ceiling a thick plywood arm to come down from the ceiling to the Exaktor adjustable weighted arm. The arms that move up & down are MDF.

[Alan Greene]

I have a Craftsman 22124 and I have purchased the Shark Guard. I have been very happy with it. As Jim stated since getting a system that is easy to take on and off I have used it religiously.

[Ken Milhinch]

PM2000 - I use the low profile riving knife which lets me cut grooves without removing it. Don't use the guard though.

[Kirk Poore]

I don't use a guard on my Powermatic 65 (circa 1959), but only because the casting which holds the guard was broken off and the main piece missing when I got the saw. The saw before this was a cheesy Craftsman from the early 80's with a guard similar to the General International one posted earlier. The guard was fine, other than getting yellow with age, and I used it almost all the time (I usually do dadoes on my RAS).

The PM 65 cannot take any internal aftermarket splitter, and I haven't found an overarm guard I like or want. But if there is another PM 65 owner out there that wants to part with their splitter casting and guard parts, email me.

Kirk

[Ellen Benkin]

Yes for the splitter. I won't rip without it. No for the blade guard. It's just too much of a pain and distraction.

[John Ricci]

Guard, no...old, cloudy plastic. Riving knife with kickback fingers, yes. Shopsmith MK-V 510. I just removed the guard from the stock riving knife and put it away because I have had no probs with DC and if the blade were to spit a tooth or whatever, there is no way that plastic would stop it anyway. Featherboards, pushsticks and safety glasses work better for me. My .02Cdn.

J.R.

[jim gossage]

i use the guard and splitter on my dewalt hybrid saw most of the time i do through cuts. i also modified my guard/splitter combo to take off more easily with wingnuts. if i don't have them on, i will use gripper rippers. i've never had a kick back or close call.

[Spencer Keysan]

I would ceptin I lost my right hand in a table saw accident cuzzin I was too cheap to buy a sawstop.