good wood for a raised garden?

[Stephen Hibbs]

Hey,
We are working on making two 3'x12' planters with a dog-proof 6' tall trellace/wall around a total area of 8'x12'. We are currently wondering what wood to use that's a good combination of durability and price. Right now we are kicking around using plastic wood, redwood, or cedar. We want this thing to last at least 10 years in a fairly warm, dry So Cal climate. The lower area has to hold up 2' of dirt above ground, and then posts are going to support trellaces and a shade covering it. Mostly we're worried about what wood to use to hold back the dirt and for the posts since they are the most susceptible to rot. What are your suggestions for this?

[Jim Becker]

Cedar, redwood, white oak (NOT red oak), mahogany, locust (heartwood), etc.

[Dick Heifner]

I am in the proccess of doing the same thing. I used pressure treated to frame the boxs and am facing it with redwood.
Good luck.
Dick

[Tom Cowie]

Locust if you have a saswmill nearby might be inexpensive and very durable.. It is here..


Tom

[David Klug]

If you have access to railroad ties, they work good.

DK

[Al Killian]

I have a raised garden that has been up for four years now and it is made with pt pine. I lined the inside with garden fabric. As of now there as been no signs of rot or decay.

[John Hedges]

I just made a raised bed last weekend and after much research used Redwood, but Cedar and the other suggestions will work well too. If it is a vegetable garden do NOT use pressure treated wood and especially NOT railroad ties. The chemicals will leach into the soil and into your vegetables which can be very unhealthy from what I read. If it is a flower garden that is a different story though.

[Joe Chritz]

I hate to be a pot stirrer (well not really) but unless there is new data that I have not seen you can use treated lumber for food growing retaining areas.

Both the USDA and at least one ag scientist at MSU (Michigan State has a huge ag program) have given sceintific opinions based on tests that the risk from chronic arsenic exposure is almost zero. This is using CCA treated lumber, which isn't widely available anymore. ACQ treated lumber does not have any toxic (at least listed with EPA) chemicals.

That said, Pressure treated lumber is ugly and not much cheaper than using fence grade white oak boards which look around a thousand times nicer if done correctly. If you are going to build one you may as well make it look nice.

Joe

[Steve Hayes]

I would be concerned about the warping of the pressure treated wood, at least in Texas.

[Bert Johansen]

Around here, cypress is plentiful and practically rot-proof.

[James Carmichael]

I would be concerned about the warping of the pressure treated wood, at least in Texas.

Ditto that. I bought some treated pine 2x4s to level a spot in the backyard for a pool. 2 days in the sun had them looking like pretzels.

Asthetically, I despise treated lumber. As Jim said, cedar, white oak, redwood, etc will work.

[Ron Blaise]

All the other woods mentioned are good. Consider Cypress & Yellow Popular too. Bugs don't like either one and both weather nicely.

[Joe Spear]

I made my beds 7 years ago out of 1 x 6 cypress boards a local lumberyard was clearing out. I'm in Massachusetts, and the soil is wet year-round. The wood shows no rot yet.

[Jim Becker]

...Yellow Popular too. Bugs don't like either one and both weather nicely.
Not so on the Yellow Poplar (Tulip Poplar)...breaks down quickly based on my experience with the wane from my milling of the same here on the property, including critter action.

[Homer Faucett]

I hate to be a pot stirrer (well not really) but unless there is new data that I have not seen you can use treated lumber for food growing retaining areas.

Both the USDA and at least one ag scientist at MSU (Michigan State has a huge ag program) have given sceintific opinions based on tests that the risk from chronic arsenic exposure is almost zero. This is using CCA treated lumber, which isn't widely available anymore. ACQ treated lumber does not have any toxic (at least listed with EPA) chemicals.
Joe

Unfortunately, that was the opinion on many chemicals during their heyday. Thirty years later, opinions changed. I'd rather not risk it with plants that are raised for human consumption, especially when other woods at a similar price point look better and perform as well or better.

[Loren Hedahl]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned one of the "plastic woods" that are being sold for decking at the local home centers.

Loren

[Stephen Hibbs]

Thank guys, there's a local supplier of redwoood that has the stuff pretty cheap, so i think we'll go with that or cedar.

[Mike Hill]

Stephen: My neighbor is a big time gardener and home improvement guy and he just put together 3 large raised flower gardens (also growing tomato's). They are about 6X3 foot. He used treated landscape timbers. Not the green color, but rather something that is light colored wood. I might also suggest cedar posts. They are sold around here and are basically small trees stripped of their bark. Not sure how long they would last, but everyone is using them to build outdoor furniture.
Mike

[Eric Heinz]

I seem to remember that redwood sapwood or western red cedar are expected to last 15 years but that redwood heartwood should last 20 years.

I used 2x12s for the sides with four by fours in the corners extending six inches into the ground. I based it on a pattern in Sunset magazine that used 2x6's. The pattern in Sunset is very fancy, with holders for bird netting and tomato stakes.

I bought my redwood from two different J&W stores in San Diego. I think that the El Cajon store stocks a cheaper rougher grade than is carried by the Sorrento Valley store. The rougher grade is fine.

The raised beds are great. My plants grow much better in raised bed than in these hard clay mesas in San Diego.

[Jack Roest]

I just made a set 3ft X 9ft for my daughter . I used Eastern white cedar. I have yet to deliver and install. This week I hope to start on a set of Aderondock folding chairs. Jack

[Andrew Williams]

What about bricks? Face them with wood.

[Eric Lewis]

I'm with the folks recommending you avoid chemically treated lumber. It just makes sense with so many other options.

[Alexandra Pop]

Redwood and rosewood look awesome. I'd recommend them.

[John Piwaron]

I built some from PT landscape timbers I got at HD. I glued them together with gorilla glue and then primed them, sealed all gaps with caulk and then painted them brown. The goal was to protect them as much as possible from the SE Wisconsin weather and make them last a long time. That works for me here.

[Wade Lippman]

I built one 5 years ago and found everyone said PT was poisonous, but that was based on the old stuff that isn't available anymore. The new stuff is okay. (unless something else has come up in the last 5 years!)

[Trevor Howard]

Not to point out the obvious, but this thread is over 10 years old

[lowell holmes]

White oak is my hands down choice. I've had good luck with it in the Texas gulf coast area (Galveston County).

[Lee Schierer]

Thank guys, there's a local supplier of redwoood that has the stuff pretty cheap, so i think we'll go with that or cedar.

Most plastic woods don't have enough stiffness to hold back 2 feet of dirt. However, the orange borg carries or can get thermally modified wood (http://www.homedepot.com/s/WellDone%2520Decks%2520Oak%2520decks?NCNI-5) that will last 25 years exposed to the weather. There are no added chemicals in it.

Thermally modified wood is wood that has been modified by a controlled pyrolysis process of wood being heated (> 180 °C) in absence of oxygen inducing some chemical changes to the chemical structures of cell wall components (lignin, cellulose and hemicellulose) in the wood in order to increase its durability. Low oxygen content prevents the wood from burning at these high temperatures. The main reason thermo-treated wood is durable and stable for 25 years is the molecular changes that occur when wood undergoes the targeted temperatures during the process. More specifically, 95% of the polysaccharides (sugar for fungi) are removed during this high temperature stage, which dramatically increases durability (more than 25 times than original wood. Also, the wood substantially reducing moisture related shrinking and swelling.

Increased dimensional stability - Moisture related shrinkage and swelling is reduced by 5-15 times
Enhanced Visually - the finished product has an even brown color consistent to the center of the wood and the grain structure is beautifully accented.
100% chemically free - it is a 100% “Green” product and “Green” technology

[Bill Dufour]

Rubbermaid plastic stock troughs. Great for Zucchinis since you do not have to bend over to pick or weed. Buried halfway they make a nice fishpond with the brick terracing blocks.
Bill D

https://jet.com/product/detail/fc5271f0e17641ae8fb1f570eefd57be?jcmp=pla:ggl:NJ_d ur_Cwin_Office_Products_a1:Office_Products_Workspa ce_Organizers_Waste_Bins_a1:na:PLA_786153992_42772 716644_pla-319303810540:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=786153992&is_retargeting=true&clickid=3858d539-5725-44f4-8579-16eb2e71862e

[John K Jordan]

Rubbermaid plastic stock troughs. Great for Zucchinis since you do not have to bend over to pick or weed. Buried halfway they make a nice fishpond with the brick terracing blocks.
Bill D
...]

Interesting use. For a planter I'd cut drainage holes in the bottom (or just cut the bottom out if sitting on the ground - I sliced one of these in half with a sawzall to make a chick-raising tub plus an alpaca wading pool.)

BTW, the price is typically 1/2 of that shown in the link given. Try a farner's co-op, Southern States, Tractor Supply, etc.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/rubbermaid-structural-foam-stock-tanks-100-gal-capacity

JKJ

[David Winer]

Whatever wood you use for a raised bed, I suggest coating the inside faces with roofing "cement," essentially tar mixed with a solvent to make it paintable with a stiff brush. I have flower boxes (cypress) that have lasted many years painted on the inside with roofing cement. Low cost stuff, by the way.

[Robert Engel]

Composite decking ;-)

Also, +1 on the ACQ PT wood. If you stain it it won't look that bad.

Depending on the degree of exposure just about any wood in direct contact with soil will eventually deteriorate.

Termites is one of the biggest problems around me. An elevated planter is a good idea in this case.

I've seen termites in heart pine, which isn't supposed to happen.

[Brian W Evans]

I just built some beds with cedar and galvanized steel roofing - an idea I got from a book about raised bed gardening. Mine are 2.5 feet deep, 15 feet long, and 3 feet wide. I used stainless steel cable strung across the beds in a few places to prevent bowing out of the sides. Cedar isn't cheap around here (I believe it's western red cedar and I'm on the east coast), so I'm not sure I'd do it again this way even though I'm pleased with the result. Cedar 2x4s and the roofing are available at Lowes in my area.

If I had it to do over again, I think I would try cement block or something similar. This would be cheap, strong, and would last forever. If looks are an issue, the block could be clad with something to make it look better - maybe even tiled. Some of that porcelain wood-look tile is surprisingly attractive and inexpensive.

By the way, a useful tip is to put hardware cloth under your raised bed to prevent moles from stealing your veggies from underneath. My neighbor is constantly losing plants to these sneak-thieves.

362479

[Joe Spear]

By the way, a useful tip is to put hardware cloth under your raised bed to prevent moles from stealing your veggies from underneath. My neighbor is constantly losing plants to these sneak-thieves.

362479

Moles don't steal your plants. They eat worms and insects and their larvae. They could damage roots with their burrowing, but the roots would grow through the hardware cloth anyway and could get injured. If the plants are getting stolen, look for evidence of rodents doing the dirty work, not moles.

[Bill Dufour]

Moles = Good. Gophers are vegetarians they will pull plants down from the roots until they eat the entire plant. Interesting to watch your flowers shaking in the wind, on a still day, as they get shorter and shorter.

[John K Jordan]

... If the plants are getting stolen, look for evidence of rodents doing the dirty work, not moles.

I find groundhogs the worst - just one can wipe out a huge number of plants in one night. Rabbits are next - they like to raise their young right in the garden. Deer love to eat gardens too but I figured out how to chase them away with 25 cents worth of peanut butter - not one in our garden for years now.

For wooden beds I prefer black locust and osage orange. Eastern Red Cedar is good too if you get some without the white wood. When I get logs of any of these I usually saw some 4/4 and 8/4 for garden use. I plan to install more raised beds this fall and transplant all my strawberries.

JKJ

[Brian W Evans]

Thanks to those who pointed out that moles are not the problem. We don't have gophers in CT, I don't think, but something is stealing my neighbor's plants from below - you can see the holes with tunnels leading to them. Whatever it is, hardware cloth will stop them. My beds are 2.5' deep, with hardware cloth and landscaping fabric underneath, so I don't anticipate too many roots extending below ground level. Other critters are stopped by my 8' tall fencing.

[Lee Schierer]

You most likely have meadow voles that are eating your plants. They tunnel year round.

[Joe Spear]

We don't have gophers in CT, I don't think,

You most likely do have gophers in CT. They are pests in my Massachusetts garden. They mow everything down and even eat tomato leaves if they are hungry enough.

[Mark W Pugh]

........ I figured out how to chase them away with 25 cents worth of peanut butter - not one in our garden for years now.


JKJ

Please elaborate.

[John K Jordan]

"Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan ........ I figured out how to chase them away with 25 cents worth of peanut butter - not one in our garden for years now. JKJ"
Please elaborate.

I have an electric fence around my garden (about 150'x50'). The fence is only 3' high and certainly wouldn't stop a deer. I periodically put dabs of peanut butter every 10' or so on the wire. The theory is the deer smell the peanut butter, come close to taste it, and seriously don't like the 5000 volt taste! The theory appears to work. Once deer experience the shock on their nose/mouth they apparently never get anywhere close again!

I read about this idea somewhere at least 10 years ago.

A shocking story: We have deer in our horse pasture almost every day. It has a single electrified tape 4' from the ground and the deer simply walk under it. Once I watched a deer approach the fence from inside the field and lift his nose to smell the tape. He jump backwards with a flip and raced back across the field. When he got to the tape on the opposite side he bowed up and stopped then ran back across the field twice then up and down the fence looking for a way out with no tape. About 20 minutes later he was still in the pasture walking the fence line. I had to leave for a while and he was gone when I got back.

A trapping story: Peanut butter, BTW, is one of the best live trap baits I know for varmints like raccoons and skunks. Any kind of meat or cat/dog food will work too but with the peanut butter you don't accidentally trap the cats too! I spread a bit on a piece of bread and throw it into the back of the trap. Our incidence of chickens and guineas killed and nests (and garden veggies) destroyed has gone down with the trapping.

Once something was destroying our corn so I set three traps in the garden with peanut butter bait. In the first trap I caught a big raccoon. In the second trap I caught two skunks! The third trap caught THREE skunks. That was a memorable day.

JKJ

[Steve Demuth]

I just built some beds with cedar and galvanized steel roofing - an idea I got from a book about raised bed gardening.

By the way, a useful tip is to put hardware cloth under your raised bed to prevent moles from stealing your veggies from underneath. My neighbor is constantly losing plants to these sneak-thieves.



I wouldn't count on galvanized roofing holding up particularly well, particularly in NE soils, which lean toward the acidic. Your mileage might vary, but there isn't that much zinc on most stuff you get from home or farm stores. And, if the gardener uses any type of NPK fertilizer, they're basically dumping an ionic soup onto that zinc/steel. Not a recipe for longevity.

The hardware cloth is a good idea, although it's voles (not moles) and other rodents that you mostly have to stop. Moles are basically worm and grub eaters, and with the exception of having a taste for just germinated pea and bean seeds, don't eat vegetables (although their near surface tunneling can be very disruptive to plantings). Chipmunks, gophers, voles, and out here on the prairie, pocket gophers, on the other hand think carrots and beets are candy. But the hardware cloth isn't going to be all that long lived either - I'd give it maybe a 5 year effective life.

[John K Jordan]

I forgot to mention I electrify the garden fence with the same livestock fence charger I use for the horse pasture. This one is solar powered, bought from the local farmer's co-op.

JKJ

[Steve Demuth]

I have an electric fence around my garden (about 150'x50'). The fence is only 3' high and certainly wouldn't stop a deer. I periodically put dabs of peanut butter every 10' or so on the wire. The theory is the deer smell the peanut butter, come close to taste it, and seriously don't like the 5000 volt taste! The theory appears to work. Once deer experience the shock on their nose/mouth they apparently never get anywhere close again!


You've got some exceptionally trainable, or not very persistent deer. I use a two layer, 7 wire fence, a 20K Joule, 12K Volt charger, and bait to keep them out of the orchard, and it's still only moderately successful. Once they get hungry after there is some snow on the ground, they're through that to dig for apples and munch twigs in trice. What has finally brought them under control though, is a llama and two dogs. The llama patrols the pasture and keeps them from coming in from open areas, and the dogs create enough mayhem inside the orchard to make lunch at our place not worth the trouble. The llama is particularly fun to watch - she's a guard animal for the sheep flock, and she keeps them safe from coyotes by being very thoroughly checking out anything that enters her domain. A deer comes over the fence, and llama just starts walking straight toward them to figure out who this new addition is, just like she would with a new sheep. With the sheep, she comes right up and gives them a good going over with her nose to get to know them. That totally freaks the deer out, and they quickly leave the way they came. After an entire grazing season of that, the deer simply don't view the pasture as part of their territory, and stay away even during the winter.

[John K Jordan]

You've got some exceptionally trainable, or not very persistent deer. ...What has finally brought them under control though, is a llama and two dogs.

Llamas will definitely guard things, especially large llamas with guard tendencies. I have a couple like that, 10 llamas and alpacas, well 11 counting the new baby. We have no llamas anywhere near the garden side of the property, though.

362599

The deer here may well be trained. We usually host their young every year so perhaps they learn to avoid the garden from their mamas .

Also, there is an abundance of things to eat outside the garden since we are adjacent to hundreds of acres of woods and fields, creeks, and river. I don't worry too much when they are in the orchard but I don't want them in the garden (or my blueberry patches!) No coyotes here - I suspect the llamas, donkeys, horses, and dogs keep them away since just a few miles away there are plenty.

One issue with llamas and whitetail deer, in this area at least, is the threat of meningeal worm which can disable and kill them. It is passed from whitetail deer through a tiny snail to llamas. I lost one probably to that parasite and one of my females got it but mostly recovered with treatment. Horrible parasite, affects them neurologically, coordination, balance, and if they live they are often permanently changed.

JKJ